Droogne
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Posts posted by Droogne
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Selling this very nice pair of K55M drivers (no horns). Very good condition. Open to shipping (internationally). Price: 325 USD
Greetings
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24 minutes ago, Wim M said:
OK, I see that your amp doesn't have balanced outputs, so I think you use RCA to XLR adapters. My best guess is that this is the source of your problem.
Except getting amps with balanced inputs, any way to fix (or try) this?
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1 minute ago, Wim M said:
Which speakers exactly give a problem? The ones that are connected directly to an amp or the ones that go through a processor?
Otherwise you'll have to expand this a bit, as I can't figure out how everything is connected.
Only the one going through the processor. The processor settings do not change the beep, only the amps levels.
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I have some problems in my active setup, and I was hoping some people could help me out. As I'm new to this I didnt knew what to look for to maximise quality. I knew not to go over 0db in the crossover it self, but I didnt focus on clipping. I see and notice now how much influence this has on the sound quality. I have a few problems in trying to fix this.
I have a beep, which is most noticeable in my tweeter horn. This only depends on the amp level, and is not influenced by the AVR level (or settings) or processor levels. I'm using a Marantz SR7000 amp which needs to be turned down to -35db to remove the beep. That is insanely low.. the amp itself has decent power, but like this it can not give enough. It makes it so that I need to make the difference very high in my processor to get it to the bass level. Same problem, but less severe, in my 2x 500W power amp which I use to drive the low end. All in all I need to pushe the speakers to their very limits in the AVR. They are set waaaay higher than the other channels (which is kinda crazy if you know that they have more than 12db sensitivity extra, ánd several times the power potential to drive them). My very very very cheap (10 USD) china amp doesn't have this problem.. I tested it, and it comes out pretty *BEEP*less. I can easily set the level of 1 speaker with this amp driving both high and low end (it does not have balance control) , without having to use crazy proces. In the end this problem with my main amps is most visible in the clipping of the processor. Even at moderate levels it clips. And it is soooo noticeable..
How do I fix this? The amps I have now are temporary in every sense, so changing the amps is the solution I have in mind. How do I know if an amp is gonna give a beep or not? It would be a waste to spend good money on something when I gives the same BEEP / clipping problem I have now.
Also, what other rules of thumb and principles should I follow? Not adjust the processing above 0db is one. What are some others? If I want to raise the level of a speaker, what is the best way? Adjust it in the AVR, amps or processor? Same for adjusting high vs low: amp or processor?
Thanks in advance!
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8 hours ago, billybob said:
Hope your event goes off well. Forgot the date now, lol!
27th of june! Were gonna be using at least 4. Still not sure how I'm gonna use the Faital HF200s. I got 4 of those. Anone any suggestions? I got 2x K510 horns (could be very good tweeter horns) and a few P Audio PH4525 (decent midrange horns). So I can let each Faital handle the full spectrum from the bassbin and up, or make a sort of 3-way to prevent things like lobbing and what not (I'm not a pro, so I might be wrong in that aspect).
Will definetely start posting pics when we are in the planning stages of the festival, ánd in the preparation stage of the LaScala mini tower. They need to be painted first, the MDF would die under the first drop of rain.
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Yeah, they are awesome! Trying to figure out how loud they go, but when pushing those 500W woofers with a 500W amp and some pink noise I already get terrified. Was at least at 120db 80hz (even 120db 40hz but there was a lot of distortion audible, so I wouldnt recommend that
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5 minutes ago, Marvel said:
So... how do the five of them sound in your living room?
Bruce
Already amazing! Lots of tweeking and testing still to be done though.. Crossovers are active, and everything is setup, but @Chris A is helping me fixing something. Also didnt have a lot of time to do some extensive listening and movie watching, but now that the first sub is done I'm planning to do a good listen session + Dunkirk in 4K HDR this weekend. I'm gonna disconnect all the low quality speakers I have in my 11 surround, and just go for a 5.2, as Dunkirk is only 5.1.
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2 minutes ago, richieb said:
--- I see you are in Belgium? My wife worked for a company headquartered in Waregem.
That is the other side of the country.. Not that it matters, as it's still only a 1 hour drive
My parents grew up in a town near Waregem.
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I havent updated this thread for a while now, but there has actually been a lot of developments! Recently build the 10 bassbins, and I'm rocking 5 of them in my living room at the moment. All use a Faital HF200 driver, 2x of them on a K510 horn and the other ones use a PH4525 horn. Working out how I will progress with this project, but 1: painting and adding protective corners etc and 2: making cases for the horns are planned. We are gonna use the LaScalas for our small stage, which will still host around 1000 people.
Will keep you all updated!
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50 minutes ago, pzannucci said:
Let us know how it goes. Very narrow coverage will either force more eq or minimal listening positioning.
Will take that in consideration!
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Hey Chris
I'm gonna be setting up everything over the coming few days and I was still wondering about something. How do I know what delays to use for the low vs high frequency drivers in the same speakers? And how much advantage is there to be gained by placing the drivers physically at the same distance, when having the ability to use digital delays? Should I place my K510/Faital HF200 right on top of the center of my LaScala, or even way more back due to the folded horn? I'm guessing I might be able to copy the delays used by other actively crossed LaScala users with different horns right (as long as the CD is at the same physical location in relation to the bass bin)?
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On 23-11-2016 at 4:09 PM, Chris A said:
As was expected today when I reran Audyssey to reset the channel "distance" delays and channel gains, I found that I needed to compensate for the added delays of the Jubilees relative to the center and surround channels - about 2 feet of apparent delay was added that I had to compensate for. Additionally, the system throughput delay difference between the EV Dx38s and the Yamaha SP2060 crossovers (used before the XIlica replaced them in the setup) was apparent in the channel delay changes--the Xilica has one system delay value for all channels, thus making it easier to estimate any delays based on physical measurements in-room. (Note that I turn off any EQ or dynamic EQ that Audyssey tries to insert into the system.)
Chris
Chris
Do you also have a guide explaining on how to integrate REW and Audyssey into the same system? I mean, how do I know Audyssey isn't throwing in extra EQ etc.. You only use it for delays (and to adjust gains easily) right? How did you know how to compensate for the delay, only physical in room distance? Or?
Also would this be the correct way to go about setting it up:
Run REW and setup the active 2-way LaScalas K510/HF200. Question: what amplifier and input do I best use at this stage? Do I run it through the AVR to the correct amp from the start, as to simulate how the setup is gonna be eventually. Or do I run REW directly from the laptop into the amp (and bypass the AVR at this stage), as to have as little influence from the AVR on the curves/PEQ. And does it matter how good the quality of the connection is at this stage (as in: a regular RCA=>Jack into my laptop vs high bit audio connection via HDMI)
Secondly: run Audyssey completely without allowing any additional (dynamic etc) EQ. Reset everything except the distances. Then check those distances. Question: what do I do with the speakers that are not connected to a processor, but are directly amplified by my AVR? Measure them too and apply some sort of EQ via the Audyssey application?
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Seems like it's worth trying out! Price is very reasonable so I think I'm just gonna go ahead and try out.
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@Chris A, as I trust your judgement on all things horn related, would you think this would be something worth trying out?
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Here are the specs of the DCP3060. Anyone any experience with this unit, or some insights based on these specs? Looks like the exact specs of XP series. It does seem the DCP is an older series, and that the price was lower than the XP series now.
EDIT: I see some differences, the XP series has a "Super" instead of a "High Performance 24-bit", and the XP also has a 40-bit floating sampling rate instead of 32-bit (40-bit ext).
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1 minute ago, Wim M said:
Hey Maarten,
I’ve seen several xp4080s on 2ehands, and it appears there ‘s little interest in them.
Wim
There is a Xilica DCP3060 on Marktplaats for only 175, so I could buy this one and sell my Behringer. That way I lose no money and end up with something better. The DCP does seem to have everything I would need.. Also I the xp4080 go for way to much for what I need it right now. I already bought an OEM version of the Xilica XP4080, and as far as I can tell it's genuine. Not sure about the quality.. I would need to some kind of test, but not sure what.
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Have been wondering about this for some time, would the Xilica DCP series also work?
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I know the uses of the K260 horn, but I was wondering if it would be able to use it as a 2way horn with a Faital HF200, on top of a LaScala bassbin. 500hz crossover.
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5 hours ago, Chris A said:
That type of coaxial configuration has worked for Tannoy, Altec 604 (including the "Big Red" of Sherwood Sax), and UREI 809A, etc., of which all were used as studio monitors in the 1960s-1980s.
The devil is in the details, however. You're right about the MEHs performing better. But coaxial designs can work very well. There are issues of coverage. Time alignment and smoothing the frequency response I believe needs to be addressed via the use of DSP crossover and bi/tri-amping.
Chris
Was not planning to use it as a coaxial, but rather just putting the horn (probably the K510) on top of the cab. That way I could still choose my horn and driver, and not be compromised in size.
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Oh, sorry phone error!
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1 pair (so 2 drivers), but if youre interested I might be able to also sell the K55V that are in my Heresy I s.
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As I decided to go for a 2 way with a K510/HF200 combo instead of the original K77/K55 3-way, I'm looking to sell my K55M driver pair. They are in very good condition, and I can also include a 1,4" thread (k55) to 2" bolt on adapter for a little extra. Also willing to sell the PH2380 horn I was gonna use.
Located in Belgium, but willing to ship internationaly. I already got the boxes and filling.
Price? Hoping for 375 euro.
Greetings
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On 17-2-2018 at 3:33 PM, Chris A said:
It's the maximum frequency before the woofers encounter the apex reflection frequencies, a band of frequencies that are cancelled due to the off-axis port acoustic waves bouncing off the throat of the horn and returning through the mouth of the horn. This is a very strong low pass phenomenon that is characteristic of multiple entry horns.
On 17-2-2018 at 3:33 PM, Chris A said:The throat-located compression driver can play through these frequencies, albeit with a loss of off-axis SPL due to the loss of off-axis port area reflectivities. Usually, MEHs are set up to overlap the crossover region by the higher frequencies and lower frequency drivers in order to cover the missing off-axis horn reflectivities in the off-axis port regions.
Thanks for clarifying!
On 17-2-2018 at 3:33 PM, Chris A said:I used Hornresp to verify that the T/S parameters of the woofers that I chose were well suited to both the high frequency and low frequency performance of the woofer pass band, i.e., that their SPL output relative to the throat-mounted compression driver was the same output levels without pronounced dips in SPL on their high frequency end of their response, and that their lower frequency response was at a relative maximum and smooth with frequency vs. other woofer driver choices that could have been made.
Is hornresp difficult to work with? In any case, what were the most important T/S parameters that worked for you?
On 17-2-2018 at 3:33 PM, Chris A said:Hornresp is actually rather limited in terms of what it can do outside of that type of performance. It would take a fairly detailed Boundary Element Model (BEM) to delve deeper into the acoustic performance of the MEH geometries and driver electro-mechanical parameters to understand much more. The difficulty of using BEMs is at least 100x higher than using a lumped model like Hornresp. I've found it to be easier to use rules of thumb and "cut-and-try" approaches rather than to presently go down the path of BEMs. That might change in the future if more MEH designs are attempted, but that's another discussion entirely.
I doubt I would ever be able to master something as complex as that
I might have a look at horn resp though. When looking at designing my own synergy/unity I followed your 10:1 ratio.
On 17-2-2018 at 3:33 PM, Chris A said:The size of the off-axis ports and the relative compression ratio of the woofers (woofer diaphragm area divided by the off-axis port area) were factors that were selected based on rules of thumb and testing of the resulting off-axis port area/placement and woofer diaphragm area. The nominal efficiency of the woofers was calculated using Olson's formula for driver/horn throat area efficiency.
Chris
And what was that efficiency? I'm guessing with 2 15"ers that will be pretty high. If you'd have to take a guess (or of you know it ofcourse), what would the overal effeciency of the MEH be?
Maarten
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@Chris A, not sure if I ever proposed it , but what would you think about using something like Jack 10 from BillFitzMaurice (http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/Jack.html). It can cover the range it is required to, and it has great sensitivity. Weight and size wise it would also work. I know it would not perform nearly as well as a decent MEH, but it would be way better than a direct firing right?
To recap, so this Jack10 with a K510/HF200 combo on top with a 475 or 500 hz crossover (active).
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Active Bi-Amping/Tri-Amping FAQ
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Is the (pure) direct mode in an AVR a good way to ensure best quality when using active crossovers / DSPs ?