DizRotus
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Posts posted by DizRotus
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Don't apologize for buying them used. While I wouldn't presume to speak for Craig, most manufacturers welcome a strong used market for their products; it reflects a strong demand for their new products. If people didn't value used VRDs enough to pay serious money for them, it would be more difficult for Craig to get his price on new units.
EDIT:
I just realized that your comment was probably a Craig's List pun, rather than a serious apology. As long as you like them and share that opinion, Craig should be pleased, regardless of how you came to own them.
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My first exposure to Klipsch speakers was related above. <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Roys post about his job interview reminds me of my first exposure to Klipsch the man.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Although Ive posted this before, its worth repeating. The one and only time I met and spoke with PWK we were discussing his disappointment with licensing Klipsch's patents to other manufacturers, e.g., Electro-Voice.
Suddenly, he shifted the topic to the relative merits of various malt whiskeys. Then, just as suddenly, he asked me, "Do you know what a Patrician is?" Before I could reply that it is an Electro-Voice speaker he said, "A Patrician is someone who steps out of the shower to take a leak."
The topic of PWKs conversations changed rapidly and without warning. One second he was complaining about all the Klipsch employment candidates who had nothing to offer other than an interest in audio and they all wanted to be paid $20,000 (remember this is the early 70s) then he'd tell an unrelated joke.
Roy, your interview experience seems consistent with PWKs comments. Hed rather hire someone with the right experience and qualifications than hire someone who was only a Klipsch enthusiast.
Meeting and speaking with him was unforgettable. I never met anyone else like him.
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A forum member (Ill leave it to him/her to disclose his/her identity) apparently just purchased these amazing speakers and contacted me via email regarding the vault. So that anyone who might benefit from using the vault in the future learns about its benefits and drawbacks, I have attached the pertinent part of my reply to the email; it appears below in blue.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Budmans amazing rosewood Cornwalls certainly merit the protection provided by the vault; if yours do also, then save this information for future reference.
Congratulations on your acquisition.
The vault is here in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = u1 />Michigan. I am merely the temporary custodian. I believe it was made, and is owned, by Audible Nectar and last used by Gilbert (both forum members). They can provide more details than I.
Nevertheless, I can explain that if you contact the nearest (to you and/or the speakers) Forward Air terminals and pay to ship the empty vault to the speakers and the loaded vault to you, you are then free to store it until the next time its needed or pay to have it returned empty to the Detroit Forward Air terminal. I will get it to the local Forward Air terminal and collect it again if returned and store it if necessary, but I wont pay to ship it to or from Detroit.
Below is a link to search results concerning the vault and its history.
Vault search
http://forums.klipsch.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?q=vault+AND+sectionid%3a4&o=Relevance
Below is a link to a recent CW vault thread.
Cornwall vault
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/880634.aspx
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That was very entertaining. It prompted me to learn more about the competition. Links to an article about the competition and links to the performances in the finals follow.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=462676&in_page_id=1773 article about the finals
Paul PottsConnie TalbotBessie CursonsDamon ScottBar WizardsKombat Breakersannouncement of winner -
Michael,
Great photos, but what else should we expect from a pro photog with kittens as models.
It's my understanding that cats with "calico" brown, white and grey markings are female, as that is a sex linked trait.
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PWK felt that all speakers are better in corners. The bass will be more abundant (only you can say if it sounds better) when the La Scalas are in corners.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Make certain that the tweeters are working. Put a towel in the squawker horn and you should easily be able to discern output from the tweeter; no noise and you probably need new diaphragms.
You might want to contact BEC (Bob Crites) about replacing the aged capacitors in the balancing networks. I would also suggest opening the bass bins to verify the correctness of the woofers and to verify that the machine screws are snug. While in there, if the woofers are OK, you might want to supplement the four original machine screws into T-nuts with four wood screws.
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Is no one concerned by the fact that there are two pictures of one speaker?
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I agree with djk.
The components are Speakerlab (EV) and are probably OK with the possible exception of the crossover. The design is neither Klipsch nor Speakerlab but, as djk points out, an apparent copy of an EV design.
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Z4
IMO, posting the info was the right thing to do. When the forum is alerted to items of interest, more people have more information. Even if the result is a higher selling price, no one is forced to offer more than they feel an item is worth. Sure individuals are disappointed that they weren't able to steal an item, but they're just sore that they couldn't compete with other equally deserving buyers who placed a higher value on the item.
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As Erik points out, some have praised 901s as being good for classical and jazz while others have said the opposite. Naturally, differing opinions can both be correct because they are just those . . . opinions.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
My own experience with 901 IIs in the mid-70s is consistent with both opinions. The large sound stage suits some recordings better than others.
Part of the dilemma results from the definitions of classical and jazz. A live recording of Beethovens Ninth is classical music that, IMO, would be spectacular (theres that word again Erik) and enjoyable on properly set up 901s. On the other hand, also IMO, a Yo-Yo Ma solo cello performancealso classicalwould not be as well suited to 901s. Similarly, a Duke Ellington big band recording and a recording of an Ella Fitzgerald solo performance fit most peoples definitions of jazz, but would present vastly different challenges to any speakers, including 901s.
Its interesting to note that many of the subjective strengths and weaknesses attributed to 901s have also been leveled at Klipsch Heritage. Most high end audio retailers would put both 901s and Klipsch in the same category as not being worthy of their audiophool clients time or money.
Perhaps one reason is that whatever success Klipsch and Bose 901s achieve is attained for a much lower expenditure than that necessary to achieve comparable results from new high end, high price and high margin gear. It would be a naïve and foolish retailer who told his/her customers not to spend thousands of dollars for [insert high end brands du jour here], but to buy a used pair of Klipsch Heritage or Bose 901s.
As has been pointed out in a prior post, the Klipschorn and Bose 901 have been around longer than most other speakers. Somebody must like them, despite their respective compromises and their many critics.
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This makes it easier to see what Edgar is suggesting.
http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/2006_Master/lg_display.cfm?page_number=322
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Speakerfritz-
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
You said, ...I, like most other Heritage product owners have re-capped. . .
I would agree that many Heritage owners on this forum have performed some update, such as re-capping networks, but I would be surprised if it is anything close to most. I would be even more surprised if anything approaching a majority of Heritage ownersmost of whom have probably never seen this forumdo anything more than listen to and enjoy their speakers.
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Dave,
I agree with your interesting analysis regarding Bose's apparent desire to make an innovative patentable product. I'd never thought of it that way before. Nonetheless, just because something is new or different, it is not necessarily better. I've heard 901s sound great and I've heard them sound miserable.
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Dave,
It seems that Erik is stating the same thing that Edward Kennedy Ellington stated in the quote in your signature.
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Def Leper-<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Having owned and used 901 IIs, and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Cornwalls, Khorns, Las Scalas and Heresies, I agree with your relative assessment of the 901s vs. Cornwalls. Maxg asked you to confirm that you are using the Bose EQ; again as a former owner, I strongly suspect that you are. Without the EQ, the 901s live up to that joke, No highs, no lows, must be Bose.
Not being a Bozophile, Im not certain at which series the 901s went from sealed MDF enclosures to ported plastic enclosures. Its my recollection that they switched at the same time from black 4.5 cloth surround full range drivers with four mounting holes to blue 4.5 foam surround full range drivers with three mounting holes. The foam surrounds are notoriously prone to deterioration. Bose is expert at using cheap components to produce spectacular (not necessarily accurate) sound.
Klipsch fanciers should be careful throwing stones at Bose for getting the most from the least regarding the quality of components. PWK was even better at using pedestrian components (such as the K55/Atlas PA compression driver) to produce better results from his superior designs than speakers costing many times as much. He was fond of saying, Not a dimes worth of difference when asked about such production shortcuts as mounting the horns to the rear of the motorboards rather than flush mounting to the front, or mounting the 15 woofers with only 4 screws, leaving four mounting holes empty.
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Much more information is necessary for a meaningful reply. Some questions might include, but are not limited to, the following:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
How efficient are the speakers you intend to use; How large a space is involved; What decibel levels would you like to achieve; and What type of music do you listen to?Ive played Cornwalls and La Scalas to ear bleeding volumes with 17 watts/channel of Dynaco tube power and 25/watts/channel of Harman Kardon SS power. For those speakers 100 clean watts is way more than enough.
On the other hand, Ive used 200 watts/channel of Dynaco SS power with Bose 901s and Speakerlab Skhorns and Klipschorns. In each case 200 watts/channel was neither too little nor too much.
If you are considering efficient speakers (Klipsch for instance), then quality is more important than quantity. Ten clean (low distortion) watts are better than 100 dirty (high distortion) watts. The ability to play loud does not mean much alone. Its the ability to play well, whether loud or not, that matters.
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In the 70s, I powered a pair of 901 IIs with a Dynaco ST-400 (200WPC) and they sounded good hanging from the low ceiling of a large room. The series IIs were one of the last of the non-ported versions and they were very power hungry. The later plastic enclosure ported versions are more efficient.
I sold the 901s to buy 2 pair of Speakerlab SKhorns used in a mobile DJ business. The 901s would have been easier to move around and would have produced plenty of decibels but they would not have had the visual impact of the four black SKhorns and they would not have started me down the horn loaded path.
A friend of mine has a pair of the plastic ported 901s stuffed into the bookcase entertainment center in which his TV is located. The fronts with the single driver are facing into the room amd the backs with eight drivers are inches away from the rear wall of the bookcase, with less than two inches of clearance on either side, Needless to say they sound dreadful. Twice I've turned them around so that at least the side with eight drivers is facing into the room, but each time someone turned them back around. This is a speaker that requires proper placement to work well.
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Michael,
Have you collected the Heresies with the Crites tweeters from the Professor? If so, what do you think of the Crites tweeters? Those are the "ear bleeders" that I bought from Allan Songer. I must confess that I found them to be marginally better than K-77s and K-77Ms, but not a huge difference.
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Congratulations Kev! They're beautiful. Now "#1" deserves equal billing to her new sister. What's her name?
Now I see why you you tagged this as "OT" Before reading, I thought you were referring to audio and couldn't see how that could be OT.
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The <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Cornwall vault would be just the thing to guarantee the safe shipment of these or any other worthy Cornwalls. See the link below for more details.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
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pauln, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Yes, that's not the case. As you know see it, the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Bell is a La Scala that has been stretched sideways and shortened front to rear and top to bottom. The design modification was done for cosmetic purposes to make it more attractive as a center speaker between two Khorns in PWKs 3-channel setup.
Klipsch succeeded admirably on the cosmetics front. IMO the Belle is one of the most attractive speakers ever made.
The changes to the La Scala dimensions were not without compromises in performance. The most notable being the shorter squawker horn needed to fit in the shorter depth. That necessitated a squawker horn with a higher LF cutoff than the La Scala and Khorn, but still lower than the Cornwall (if Im incorrect about this well soon hear about it). The sonic compromises were perceived by most to be negligible or relatively minor; more than offset by the increased WAF.
PWK and Klipsch were surprised when customers started ordering Belles in pairs to use as primary speakers.
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This attached pdf has the specs for the older discontinued version of the FE-103.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
The vented enclosure recommend by Fostex for that driver has the following interior dimensions with a board thickness of 12mm (.47"):
width: 134mm (5.27")
height: 270mm (10.62)
depth: 171mm (3.66)
speaker opening: 93mm (3.66) in diameter with center 75mm (2.95) from top
port: 50mm (1.96) in diameter with center 50mm (1.96) from bottom
port length: 88mm (3.46)
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The attached pdf has the plans for the enclosures I built, plus a small vented box as an alternative.
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Mike-
Have you had a chance to play with the drivers?
If Andy aka klipschguy sees this thread he'll be pleased to learn that I donated those drivers to you and your friends just as he donated the Radio Shack 40-1197s to me. The hobby moves forward. Enjoy them.
Help with making a tractrix horn for Altec 290-16K for use on K-horn
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Jordan you have a PM.