Ziggurat
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Posts posted by Ziggurat
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Well, after months of trying different things, tonight I heard Cornwalls the way I am sure they were intended to sound - spectacular!
My friend 'acoustically divided' his room - for want of a better term. He hung some heavy drop-sheets half way across the room, set up a table tennis table behind this (in the new 'area' without the soundsystem in it) and moved his sofa closer to the Cornwalls.
Suddenly, we have bass! I was measuring right down to 32hz no problem. Really impressive. The lift in the whole presentation is significant. I sat and just enjoyed everything we listened to for the first time.
My mate seems pretty content - and I can see why. A good result.
Thanks for your help and comments here - they've helped confirm we needed to work on the room harder. Cheers!
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8 hours ago, Dave A said:
Why would you make interconnects when good ones for about any configuration are readily and economically available. Well they are here I don't know what is available over there.
Simply because my Xilica has Euroblock style connectors. People look at me funny when i ask for RCA to Euroblock connectors.
Hopefully someone will be able to supply me with Roy's PEQ settings.
I'm hoping for decent response at 40hz froma bit of room gain, and that should about satisfy me.
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54 minutes ago, Dave A said:
You will really like that setup. If and when you do build in the future you can get most of your money back on those bass bins if you decide to sell so you can't lose here. How are things going with your Xilica?
Hi Dave. Thanks. The Xilica is working, but I am going to have to make up some decent interconnects - the first ones I made sound awful. The system on the whole gets noisy too, when I run two amplifiers, so I plan to make some infrastructural changes to get some dedicated power lines into my sound room. I'm sure I will work it all out. No troubles using the graphic equaliser, but I don't know where (and why) to start with the PEQ. Much to learn.
I doubt I will ever sell the Jubilee setup. I have too great of a sense of loss all these years after selling Khorns. Plus I am more settled nowadays, not moving house every 6 months.
I have some parts gathered for either a Cornscala (ish) build, or alternatively Altec A7-500's, using the pair of 511b horns I have. So I have some woodwork projects if need be.
What horn subs are people running with the Jubes? I'm picking I won't need one, but you never know.
Dave I think you said once you measured Jubes with decent response at 25hz in some rooms - did I remember that correctly?
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....and ordered Jubilee bass bins to sit my 402's on.... Now the four month wait begins....
All the research and looking at plans for DIY and in the end, I just couldn't shake the thought that other designs would have been a compromise. So, Jubilees it is. I have the Xilica working, will try and get ahold of the PEQ settings for the combo I have.
Selling my Prima Luna amp. The big Crowns are just rockin out, and so clear. My brother is taking the Altec 19's. Relieved that I will still be able to visit them.
Anyway, I feel pretty Zen about it all, despite the outlay.. and just maybe I will do a DIY sub if required, to scratch THAT itch.
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Thanks all for the responses.
Is pretty clear that we have an unusual room-related issue.
I feel pretty reassured by all comments here that once we get this sorted, the Cornwalls will be awesome.
Let's leave it there, with my thanks, until I can report back with good news.
Cheers.
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Guys, thanks for the responses.
Look, not to sound like I'm being unappreciative, but the reason I haven't covered over all the questions you have raised is because, well, we know what we are doing with audio gear (mostly!) and have good equipment, source material, and reliable benchmarks for comparison. We have tested phasing etc as fundamental starting points.
We are absolutely not 'so quick to blame the speakers', having swapped out all gear numerous times to arrive here. I wasn't so much looking for a how-to on solving speaker problems as much I was wondering what other people's experiences were with the Cornwalls - if others had had similar experiences. Perhaps I worded my original post poorly.
Having now seen the issue across two pairs of Cornwalls, and with all comments here and elsewhere, plus all other facets having been examined, I am left believing that there must be some sort of cancellation happening due to the acoustic behavior of the room. It is just possible that other speakers don't excite this response in this room
We are going to try adding some serious bass traps in the corners and see if we can't improve the responses. I will report back.
Thanks again.
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5 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:
Good luck with my man.... Sounds like you guys have given it a good go around. Maybe someone else here will be of more use.
Thanks mate yeah me too. This one has me scratching my head.
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Just now, Westcoastdrums said:
Perhaps, this has something to do with the harshness and bass shyness(although you said, you tried several others...) ? When I sold my pair and demoed them to buyer, he almost didn't buy them as, they sounded exactly as what you are describing here with a bottom of the line, old Yamaha stereo receiver. They sounded AWFUL. Feed them garbage (low quality mp3) and they sounded like garbage (almost unlistenable)....
Hopefully, I have highlighted that we are using high quality gear that performs as expected with other speakers.
There is quire simply no bass below 60hz to carry the music along. They sound like bookshelf speakers. It is just bizarre - we cannot reproduce the performance that others so readily seem to experience with the Cornawalls.
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Just now, Westcoastdrums said:
What are you powering them with? How far away is the listening position? What are you using to judge their low frequency extension? I'll tell you my experience is completely opposite of yours. In my room, I had to pull them out from the back wall /corner a little bit to even put the tonal balance. They shook my couch approx 13 feet away at moderate volumes. With movies, they could be too bass heavy. I certainly wouldnt call the mids or treble harsh and I listened with the grilles off usually. I only powered them with roughly 100± watt solid state amps. With electronic music, bass can get downright silly when my guests would come over and many were very impressed overall... Hope you get your issue sorted.... Never felt that they were bass shy with any type of music I listened to, just a touch slow and sloppy in the bass (thickened the bass up if you will).
Fascinating stuff.
Amps we have used: Leben CS300 (15wpc tube), Leben CS600 (28wpc tube), Prima Luna DHPP (75 wpc tube), Yamaha AS300 (100+ wpc SS), Leben integrated SS amp and others.
As mentioned, very basic measuring tools. However they fairly broadly mirror the listening experience.
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Woofers are in phase and working fine. his room is 45 square meters, mine is 24 square meters. Keep in mind this has been experienced across two pairs of Cornwall III's too.
Tried corner loading. No Sub in the system.
Very confusing.
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I wanted to say, we are not headbangers either, and don't identify with 'louder is better' type attitude. I don't believe what we are looking for is anything beyond printed specs and reasonable expectation of a relatively large-format speakers with 15" drivers on board.
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A friend of mine has a bit of a baffling situation. A while back he purchased a new pair of Cornwall III's from a Klipsch dealer. When I first heard them, I felt they sounded quite light in the bass department and harsh in the mids. We worked hard to treat the room and sorted out the midrange brashness, but there was still a real feeling of and absence of bass to carry the music along. The room is square and less than ideal - you do hear more bass against the ceiling and in the corners of the room. More treatment is necessary. With some very basic measuring gear, the bass appears to peak at 60hz, and then fall off a cliff - almost nothing below 60hz. Measuring in the room corners shows an increase in bass amplitude (I hope that is the right word), but no increase in measurable bass below 60hz.
A second set of Cornwall III's became available to him with a different finish. These measured identically.
We brought this pair to my house and measured them in my room, which has traditionally been pretty bass-friendly. They definitely seemed more reinforcing in my room, but still with the very sharp drop-off below 60hz. My testing gear is very rudimentary, however my Altec 19's by comparison show plenty of bass down to their peaky 40hz tuning, then lower levels down to about 32hz, tested on the same gear. Side by side, there is no comparison - the Altecs are able to set my whole house alive with bass, whereas the Cornwalls seem like a bookshelf speaker by comparison.
We have tried literally dozens of room placement options (corners, walls, open space, etc etc), different amps - Leben, LFD, Yamaha, Prima Luna, cables, sources, you name it.
Everything we read suggests the Cornawalls are phenomenal bass speakers - is there something I might be misunderstanding here? As it stands, another friends KLF10's with Crites crossovers seem to offer a more cohesive and driving sort of a sound.
Your help and guidance to work through this is greatly appreciated.
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Well, some things happen for a reason huh?
Made a call to a local tech - Can you please fix my Crown? No mate, he says, but I can do you a deal on a few I have laying about here....
All going, all in good nick, and for a very nice price (I am sitting here calculating my watts-at-8-ohms-per-dollar ratio).
So now I have a fun weekend ahead of me.... Hope y'all do too!
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3 hours ago, parlophone1 said:
Do you have any idea why resistors went off?
Yes, I'm starting to think a couple of missing screws allowed the bottom panel to press against the main pcb and possibly create a hot point or a short. I can't be certain though. The problem happened after i put it on some small risers which would have localised the pressure points to the four corners of the bottom panel.
I may just replace the resistors and try my luck, or I may send her to the tech for an overhaul - see if we can't keep her on the road for a few more sets 🙂
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5 hours ago, Schu said:
all amplifiers are exactly the same... they all produce the same transient response, the same dynamic range and the same noise floor.
You either have a marvelous sense of irony or some serious Ear-Shu's 🙂
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I recently purchased a Crown Macro-Tech 2401, based on discussions here and elsewhere about building a system around the 402's. I had absolutely no idea what I was buying - it just happened to come up locally and I grabbed it for some solid state bass control - thinking I would run my Prima Luna somehow on the tops.
It was going to sit idle until I work out exactly what direction I am going to take with the system build, but the other day I bought some XLR to RCA plugs and connected the Crown to my MHDT tube dac. First thing I noticed was the fan... it's amazing the amp didn't levitate with the squall of air gushing through it. I took the panels off and gave the old beast a clean, then replaced the fan with a quieter set of fins. Plugged back in, I set about some serious listening.
Running the Altec 19 bottoms and crossovers and the k402's on top, the first thing I noticed was how much I have been missing at the top and bottom. Second thing was the GRIP and SLAM. Then I noticed that my favourite Dire Straits album just didn't seem as 'listenable' as was on the Prima Luna - a harsh edge here and there - but then, there was also features of the music that I had never heard coming through before.
A few albums later, the penny was really starting to drop. Feed the Crown exceptional recordings and it delivered exceptional sound; but the slightest hint of weakness in source material would be utterly laid bare.
I listened to a cluster of known -gem recordings - a couple of Diana Krall offerings, Yello, etc. On these, I have never heard anything come close to the sound I was hearing - a crystal clear deep wall of shimmering magic. The 402's were gone, and the room was filled. Immense.
Switching back to the PL, I can listen to anything and everything. It does a smashing job as jack of all trades - but the Crown is master, and has made me see a new way forward.
Alas, our time together has been cut short by blown resistors. I hope I can get it up and running again so I can experiment with a new concept to me - taming the raw beauty of a monster solid state amp with the Xilica, and just maybe some additional tubes up front.
Tonight I dine on Prima Luna mush - it's easy to chew and to swallow - and tastes sweet every day. But I have been to the butcher's block and tasted his wild venison - rare, thick-cut and bloody.
I want some more.
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4 hours ago, babadono said:
Cool. So one or all of those screws were making the magical ground connection. As to how it works..that's more magic and wizardry
Get XConsole up and running if you have not already.
I have no idea what was going on, but whatever it was, it the unit is fine now. But I have new problems. I had just fallen in love with the big Macro -Tech amp I have been playing with - got it sounding amazing - then last night it blew two resisters on the main board. Dammit. I am hoping it can be salvaged. I am plunged into depression lol
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I have just removed the fan from my Macro Tech 2401 in the earlier pic... and have been listening all afternoon. Its running cool as, and making my Prima Luna Dialogue HP Premium seem like a child's toy.
Pity about the transformer hum.
Looks like I have found a second Macro Tech too.
Can anyone tell me how these compare to the K1, K2 etc? This thing sounds amazing. What would be it's equivalent in the new Crown range? Thanks.
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Sorted! No more shrieking noise! Tech reported the screw issue - found thar all screws were only half seated, and two were completely free, but were being sandwiched onto a pcb.
$75 later, I have a functional Xilica.
Now to figure out how in heavens name it works..... lol
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1 hour ago, babadono said:
Sure does. I thought that Xilica confirmed the 1500 Hz was caused by a faulty power supply and it would be replaced. Time will tell but the 402 is very unforgiving. Hoping for the best.....
No Xilica didn't confirm anything - they said what I described sound like it was a faulty power supply and recommended replacement if it was found to be the issue. This has not proven to be the case.
I will have more of a test basis here when it comes back to me, with other amps and speakers to try it on.
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I haven't listened to it yet, but this Crown / Amcron Macro Tech 2401 is my favourite, simply because it looks like the pro-audio equivalent of a Rolls Royce Merlin under the hood...
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An update.
Spoke to the tech today. He informed me that upon visual inspection of the internals, there was two screws floating loose (?!) In the unit. He placed these back in their proper spots and tested it. He said he was able to hear an uber-faint 1300hz ish noise as I had described, but amp only with the amp on full volume. He tested it with an external power supply and found the same.
So he is sending it back to me. Maybe he fixed it by replacing the the screws? Seems odd.
Anyhow, it's on its way back. I have a couple of amps with balanced inputs to try, plus the original gear, so I guess we will see what we see. I will report in when it arrives.
Zig
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10 minutes ago, The Dude said:
What is a Amcron? I see some Crown amps are sold this way. Maybe a Japanese version?
As far as I can tell, it is a Crown - there are Crown logos on it all over. Somebody else will no doubt be able to explain the re-branding.
Got the thing for next to nothing, sounds like they are quite a reasonable amplifier.... Good score methinks.
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Picked up one of these today - just... they are solid!
Anyone adapted of these for home audio use?
Thinking about using it to drive bass bins or subs. Fan is, um, intense though....
Get XConsole up and running if you have not already.
Took the plunge...
in Klipsch Pro Audio
Posted
Thanks to all for the input. My compression drivers are the 1132's - I wonder if these PEQ settings for 691's will get me close enough?