HDBRbuilder
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TBrennan...
Yep, yer right...I heard him say that myself a few times...LOL! ....overheard coming from PWK when an employee brought in an old beat-up Rebel to try to restore: "Why do you want an old Rebel when you work here and can get a new pair of GOOD speakers inexpensively?"....LOL!
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Tom,
From the pictures he posted on tthose KDBR's, they look correct in every way. In his description he states that they have just recently been veneered with maple...which is a bonus if it was done right...even though they are "bottom end of the line" models, they are still made out of good plywood...and if they go for a good price I would grab em...It doesn't cost but about 60 bucks a 4' x 8' sheet for maple veneered 3/4" plywood...and less than three sheets would be needed to add a top to the high-end housings, add a real top to the woofer using the other original one as the bottom of the high-end housing, and add the side pieces to the upper cabinet and a riser...for BOTH speakers!!!...then a bit of maple iron-on edge veneer and you have some very nice maple K-horns!!! After all, you already have two patterns for cutting out the tops there...a real no-brainer!!!....P.S. Don't forget to add the "kick boards" at the bottom of each one...and you can order a couple of side grills for em or make em yourself, too!! You won't need any grill cloth up top at the front, they will look better without it, anyway!!!
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edwardre,
Yes, there WAS a "KA" model way back during that era...and if I was a betting man, I would say that is what you have...but I am not THE authority.
Either way, I have had the opportunity to see a "KA" before. When I was working there, serious attempts were just starting to be made to try and buy back some of the earlier speakers for the museum that was already a "work in progress"...word had been put out to the dealers on what was being looked for in case trade-ins showed up. On occassion one of the early ones would be returned to the plant for a repair or upgrade, and a deal would be struck-up with the owner to trade it for a new one (or pair) so that it could be kept at Hope and eventually become a museum piece...or end up in one of the "honchos'" collections.
That is how I saw one...it had come in and some minor repairs were being made to it...it was definitely a "KA" model...but I cannot for the life of me give you details as to the differences in looks...it may help if I saw pics of yours.
Once, we got in one of the very early k-horns made...it looked like it was only gonna be good for firewood to me...until they put me to helping to try and salvage it one day...Boy, you should have seen this piece of junk!!!!...it looked like it had been exposed to weather for 20 years...all the plys in the pine plywood had almost totally separated on it...but...inside where the pyramid was it looked surprisingly good..and it had a Jenson Coax woofer in it!!!!!pretty cool!!!!Ya gotta love them ole big woofers with them horns in the middle of em!!!!...Anyway, after alot of work with alot of different people tryin to figure out how to salvage it...it was done...it still looked like hell, but not nearly as bad as it did when it arrived...at least it was solid again and the deterioration had been halted and wouldn't get any worse...LOL!...I wonder if it is in the museum now?...Maybe I need to hop on the ole airhead beemer and run to Hope in a few days and badger somebody into lettin me do a tour....Hmmmmmmmm
Here's a thought for ya...if you holler at one of these administrator guys on here...and ask em real nice to show a pic of yer horns to Jim Hunter, he outta be able to tell em what ya have for sure...he and his wife are kinda antique freaks to start with and he is a BIGTIME antique speaker freak...he started working there just after I did...but I know for sure he is as busy as a one-legged man in a butt-kickin contest right now...but you can give it a try
This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-24-2002 at 07:37 PM
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m00n...
Yep...been using the ole HK 900+ ever since then...hell, I even deejayed college parties with it for 3 years in the mid-80's...and in 1992 I had a pot on one of the 4 amps start to go out so I got em all replaced along with one pigtail bulb for the front face of it...50 bucks!!!!...LOL!...the guy who did the work was so excited to get to work on one that he just charged for parts and their shipping!!!...LOL!...He tested it, told me it slightly exceeded new specs in all areas...and said that was the first time he had ever seen that on a piece that old!!!
HK had one helluva rep in the days that I bought it...and it was their top of the line model in 75...and maybe one of the best if not THE best 4-channel receiver ever made!!!!..Hell, it better be...it weighs a ton!!!!...I outta know, I have moved it around a million times!!!!
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Edster00,
What?...1973???????...Man, you sure know how to hurt a guy's feelings!!!...I kinda woulda hoped you would want some Cornwalls built by MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! between '77 and late '83...that really hurts!!!!!
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IWILWALK,
Cool!...I love the heritage from that era...can't wait to see em...and...when you take the pic, if they really are from between 76-83, and you look at the top left rear corner just below the joint...and the builder code is an "A" or an "AB" stamped into em, then I built the cabinets....I pretty much built almost all the heresy "D" styles those days and the vast majority of Cornwalls...but on occassion, whenever I ran out of room to put cabinets waiting to be sanded...I got to go build some walnut heresys or LaScalas or industrial models( I built alot of Industrial speakers, too)...It's too cool to get to see speakers I built over 20 years ago...everytime I see em, it gives me a good feelin inside.
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ok....good reading so far folks....but is what I have ALNICO or not?....and is it preferred over the other...why or why not?
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Yeah, mOOn, I hear ya....i like my HK900+ I bought new in 75 alot too
...just think, back in those days you had a choice between buyin what I got or payin the rent for a year...a grand was alot of money in '75!!! -
To: BobG and the "name withheld for reasons unknown" engineer Bob quoted.....a resounding "Well Said!!!!!"
I wonder if that mysterious engineer may have been PWK himself, or maybe Jim H., or.....?
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Well,
A for the label on the back of the Heresys having the year of manufacture written on them in 1980...NOT!!! I worked there from 1976-1983, and the serial number was encoded with the year of manufacture, but the serial number was NOT on the label, it was stamped into the top edge of the heresy. All the label told was the model designation, who inspected it(the person who did the final assembly), and who tested it...sooooo...when you get home look again, please.
dougdrake...
The KG series was just going into production when I left Klipsch...but the prototpyes of some that came out after I left were around...
Are you really SURE you want me to comment on the KG series? Let's just say that when I put one on top of a heresy and had them both on the same channel on "speaker A" and "speaker B"...and I never heard the KG...I kinda said..."nope, I don't want one"....but really...the introduction of smaller bookshelf speakers and floor standing speakers for the generation of that era's living in apartments and condos with limited floorspace demanded Klipsch come out with something to compete in the marketplace and survive...so it was a good idea....for their size they were pretty good speakers....what can I say?...even today, if I get a home theater, I will build it to take heritage models...instead of what alot of folks use....my preference, besides....what is the problem with giving up a bit of floorspace in the plan for a home theater if you plan to design and build it to start with?
by the way there is a admittedly lousy pic of one of my heresys on another thread in this forum relating to cornwalls...if yer interested
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Yeah, I saw that too...and the seller even admits he helped to gut out the rest of the components that WERE correct....SOME PEOPLE!!!!
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Edwardre,
As for whether the special request models were serial-numbered...of course they were! I sincerely believe that these "special orders" were primarily intended to mate with a SINGLE Cornwall that had been purchased years earlier, and the current owner wanted a perfectly matching mate to it for stereo use.
As for the ones purchased by the employees, yes they were serial numbered, and normally the folks in final assembly knew way ahead of time that the employee would be ordering a pair of speakers...(generally the purchasing employee "put the word out" through the plant ahead of time, even sometimes picking who would be the builder, sander, painter, final assembler, etc.)...and of course in the cabinet dept. we expected the purchaser to come over and pick out his/her wood, too.
By the time the speakers made it to final assembly, the folks there would have "left-open" a pair of serial numbers in the series that (in the case of speakers not exactly being stock configuration) MOST CLOSELY aligned with a model designation being manufactured. Generally these serial numbers were either ending in "99" and "00" or in "00" and "01". But by no means does this mean that EVERY speaker with those digits at the end of its serial number were ones built for an employee purchase.
Does this give the answers your were looking for?
BTW...included is a very lousy pic of one of my heresys to give you an idea of what a "custom-built for-an-employee" decorator heresy might look like...sorry about the quality of the pic...i did it with my cheapo puter minicam.
This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-24-2002 at 04:11 PM
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Edwarde,
I think the salesman was trying to say: "All other things being equal, a high-current amp will produce a cleaner sound through accurate high-efficiency speakers than a low-current amp, even if the 'stated max watt output root mean square' of the lower current amp is higher than that of the high-current amp".
If this indeed is what the salesman INTENDED to say, then I must still agree with him
Does that kinda help clear things up? Now I am gettin confused, dammit!!! LOL!
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Although I have alot of different music tastes, I am also, at heart, a rocker!!! Nothin like a bit of Joe Walsh's "Rocky Mountain Way" to assist the first cup of mornin coffee in getting me moving for the day
I also love the sound Klipsch heritage series when powered by a good tube amp...even though I currently have only my old trusty ss Harmon/Kardon to crank up.
Many folks have asked me, when I would get on the subject of tube vs. SS, why I like the tube more. It was hard to describe without my drawing an analogy...
"I can work as either a machinist or a woodworker...I have relatively equal skills in either one, but I choose woodworking over being a machinist(even though I may be able to earn more as a machinist) because I like the medium better...wood has a warmth to it that metal just doesn't have...I like that warmth! Tubes have that same warmth!"
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mOOn,
In response to: "When you pump out higher current, less watts, it produces a cleaner sound than lower current, higher watts. Any truth to this?"
In a word, YES!
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IWILLWALK,
While reading your posting I noticed that in your equipment list you have in storage: "1980 Heresy II." I am not trying to be a nitpicker, but, although the Heresy II had the same "drop-in front" design as its predecessor (the plain ole heresy), it, instead, is easily recognized by its having the components mounted into the cabinet from the FRONT instead from INSIDE. If your heresys are actually from 1980, then they are NOT heresy II models...just heresy....you may want to re-check on WHAT you have...or...on WHEN they were manufactured...the two don't jive.
I sincerely hope I don't sound like I am being a nit-picking smart-azz, but if you are basing this on something the seller told you, then the seller was wrong.
As to your question about what kind of Klipsch those are in the pics...I also got the same pic in e-mail after asking about them...and since I have no knowledge about alot of the various models that came out after 1983, SORRY, I don't know either...LOL! Now if they were heritage series, or early KG series, or early "industrial" models I could help you...but....
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Call me stupid, if you want, but just because I know how to build the speakers that were offered from 76-83, and know what the components in them LOOKED like, doesn't mean I know squat about the components' designations or nuances.
My early 1978 Heresys (and it appears that my newly purchased LaScalas) have the tweeters in them with the kinda light gold colored metal covers with the rounded edges over the magnets. Are these what everybody calls the ALNICO tweeters?....or is that a brand?(I was told they were made by Electrovoice when I worked there)...or does ALNICO mean something special like magnet type, etc..?..maybe ALNICO stands for aluminum/nickel/copper or something?
When Klipsch changed over to the tweeters with the square magnets on them (sometime after I got my Heresys in '78, but before I left in '83), one of the engineers there told me that the reason was that "cobalt magnets had gone way up in price due to the federal government's policy towards apartheid in South Africa causing either an extremely high tariff or not allowing the cobalt from there into this country." He also said that "the newer tweeter types worked just fine, but he personally preferred the older ones."
Are my drivers on my midrange horn lens' ALNICO too? They also have rounded-over edges and kinda grey enamel on them. I was told they were made by CETEC when I worked there.
I was also told that the woofers in the speakers were all made by Eminence speaker company in KY.
I appreciate those in the know about this giving me some clarification...thanks.
BTW....It seems that IF cobalt is really involved in this, then, since the fall of the U.S.S.R.(Russia is broke and could use the money), and since apartheid in South Africa is no longer a political issue...and these two countries have the largest reserves of cobalt (that we know of, but they are finding a sh*tload of stuff in China all the time, now)...there SHOULDN'T be a big problem with making cobalt magnets again at a reasonable price...(My degree is B.S.E. Secondary Social Sciences...not math, physics, or engineering so I am not as up on things as most of you are...but I DO pay attention to geo-economics...LOL!)
This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-24-2002 at 01:38 PM
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It is hard to type on this laptop while doing the "Snoopy Happy Dance", but I just thought I would tell you folks that I just got off the phone with the actual owner of these LaScalas (they were put on eBay for him by a friend).
He said the LaScalas were used in his church since new, and the only cabinet damage was four small holes in the back edges where eye-screws were put to suspend them from the ceiling and wall, other than that they looked new before carpet and corners were put on them. His description of the components in the top end as viewed from the rear opening sure stopped any nervousness I had...yep, they ARE the real thing!!!...AND they were bought in the late 70's or very early 80's...I can't wait to see if they have MY builder code on em!!!!!
The corners and carpet were installed when the church took them down a year or so ago and decided to add protection to the cabinets before using them at floor level for church functions. Carpet was put on using spray-on contact adhesive(easy to remove, thank God!!). The plastic corners were also glued on with spray adhesive and secured with 4 tiny brads each(thank God again!!).
INDYKLIPSCHFAN...this is for you....these aren't actually in Kentucky, but in Evansville, IN!!!! (sorry, please don't hurt your foot while kicking the furniture, LOL!)
Here is the good news for forum folks...there will soon be more LaScalas from this and another church on eBay...at least another pair with the carpet and corners on them...AND a few more pairs in pristine condition(black) that have been either stored since removal from one church, or are currently being removed from the second church where new JBL!!!!! arrays are being installed!!!! Can you believe that?...getting rid of Klipsch for JBL???????????Methinks this must be the work of the devil!!!
MORE work of the devil: I think the "jig is up" and they realize how to spell Klipsch now(no, I didn't tell them!)
Now, I wonder how Judy Collins' version of "Amazing Grace" is gonna sound thru these when I get them...hmmmmm
This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-24-2002 at 12:26 PM
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FYI, I have the Stereo Review's Stereo Directory & Buying Guide for 1976, which gives descriptions/specs for over 1500 pieces of equipment, and the MSRP that year. I also have the HI-FI Annuals for both 1975 and 1976....these were published thru Off Duty Magazine for the military and have the same info (some of it for items not in the other stateside directory), but the prices given were an average DISCOUNTED price available to military at the PX or Audio Clubs of the time...NOT the MSRP!!
Anyone having vintage equipment from these two years....I will be happy to look the item up in these and post the info given for it.
No, I don't want to sell these!!! ( I know what some of you are thinking!!!) LOL!
Also, once I get to a point where I can afford it, I may have Kinko's reproduce these...some of the ads are really cool...and again...NO, I can't scan an ad for you in at this time...I just don't have that much time available right now...sorry!!!
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Since this appears to be the place where most of the tube discussion occurs, I have a question.
I have an old German Grundig Majestic Hi-Fidelity radio that my father bought new IN Germany sometime between late 1954-late 1957. I had this radio on my bedside table from 1962 until 1972, falling asleep to rock'n'roll music from it, and leaving it playing all night, turning it off when I got up each morning (hard on it wasn't I?)
Sometime after I went overseas in the military, between '72 and '76, at least one of the tubes in it burnt out. I know for sure that the tuning tube(?) that shows thru a little window on the front of it still works, but at least one of the others is burnt out.
Is there anyplace where I can find these tubes? I was told they were DIN-type (which makes sense for a German radio)and not very common in the U.S. anymore. I would really love to get a complete set of HIGH-QUALITY replacement tubes for it and get it running again.
Also, one of the "buttons" on the front of it is missing, but the lever the "button" fit on still works, and will take a replacement "button" just fine...the original button just split in two and the parts of it got lost over time. I would really love to replace that button, too. Other than these problems, it is in damned good shape.
Of course, I would like to get these parts at a reasonable cost if at all possible.
Any help/suggestions are much appreciated!!!
Yes, guys...I DO KNOW it is a classic!!!
P.S. FYI, I also have the little 45rpm record changer that came with it, and it works perfectly
I kinda wonder...if I took that Grundig, and hooked it up to an early 50's K-horn.....hmmmmThis message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-24-2002 at 12:44 AM
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Griff,
Good deal there...you are gonna have a big time now with those old Cornwalls!!
Just thought I'd throw in my two-cents worth here on the old Cornwalls.
When I was building them, 77-83, sometimes the foreman would come over and tell me to grab one of the router "forms" in the corner covered with dust and rout out a front or two for an "obsolete" Cornwall that I was gonna have to build up.
Every now and then I would even have to rout out a back that had ports in it...there were two "forms" for rear ports in that corner.
Well, once the other parts were sawn out and ready to build-up, he would come over and be my assistant in building them up, since he was just about the only one left in the cabinet shop who had ever built them when they were originally offered.
This way he could explain the different way it went together than the standard one being built at the time, and I also got to learn how to do it so that he didn't have to come over the next time, but I could instead use my regular helper, if needed.
I am not exactly sure how many different versions were built prior to 1976. But I do know that there were at least two different versions with front firing ports and "vertical horns", and two versions with no front firing port, but instead had rear firing ports...one had vertical horns in front, the other had horizontal firing horns. There was also at least one other model that I never got a chance to build, because we DID have an old router form for a different design for rear firing ports that was never used while I was there.
I guess the major point to remember here is that we DID have all these old steel plate router forms that were seldom if ever used, BUT...these forms would never have been made if there hadn't at one time been a decent amount of the particular design of the parts needed...or at least a very serious intent to manufacture the designs in large numbers. It is just too costly to fabricate those forms for "one-off" experimental cabinets.
I can also remember Ronnie coming over one day and telling me not to route out the ports on two of the cornwall fronts, just the tweeter, midrange, and woofer holes...and to keep those two fronts separate for a special pair of cornwalls. He grabbed up those two fronts and disappeared for awhile.
When he got back, there was a pair of round ports about 3+" in diameter on either side of the fronts with the top tangent edges of the port openings on a horizontal line just above the top tangent edge of the woofer hole. He came over later carrying four heavy cardboard tubes about 6" long, and four 3/4" thick plywood rings with the same interior diameter as the outer diameter of the tubes and we picked out some sides, tops, and bottoms, and started to build up the cabinets. The rings were glue blocks that went inside the cabinet to secure the tubes to the holes in the front.
There was a shelf baffle mounted OVER the woofer and these tubes...and it was kinda "L" shaped...mounted horizontally across the inside of the cabinet with the other part of the "L" running angled slightly toward the rear and downward...BUT, it wasn't fastened in at that point, just fitted to ensure that its supporting glue blocks were fastened in correctly...Ronnie told me that they had to install the woofer first before the shelf was put in...it was easier that way. the shelf was to be secured to the glue blocks with wood screws, and had narrow weather stripping on the edges that would contact the glue blocks...he said that was so it "wouldn't squeak" when it was cranked up...LOL!
I don't know if these birch cornwalls were a design that had been previously built or just one of many experimental cabinets we built over the years....but they WERE unique in my experience in building Cornwalls over almost 7 years. I never built any more like them...but I DO know some more were built with round ports while I was there...I just never built any of them...I was too busy building Heresys those days that they were assembled.
I hope this helps some in the discussion about different Cornwall designs.
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IMHO....an analogy may be drawn from the following:
1. A human being orally produces sound without the aid of a cone or dome, but more like that of a horn.
2. All musical instruments in the high bass and low midranges and above produce their sounds without the aid of a cone or dome....some use horns, some use resonance chambers to magnify the sounds and send them out through an opening, some use valves...but none use a cone or dome, INSTEAD their reproduction and radiation are more like that produced by a horn.
3. Even concert halls specifically designed for orchestras use a horn-like hemi-elliptical shape over the musicians to radiate the sound forward.
4. The ancient Greeks and Romans used a round to elliptical shape, resembling an upward-facing horn for their stadiums so that the human voice, without the aid of amplification, could reach those listeners at the very highest seats.
Sooooooooo...Why use anything other than a horn to REPRODUCE these sounds accurately and efficiently?
Just a thought....
This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-23-2002 at 09:44 PM
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I have a humble suggestion on the installation of cooling fans into audio cabinets.
In my experience with amplifiers using "whisper" fans to assist in the cooling of the heat sinks, most of the higher quality ones did NOT BLOW air across the heat sinks, but instead DREW the air across them in the manner of an exhaust fan. IMHO, the reasoning for this was better efficiency in the movement of the air across the heat sinks and greater dispersion of the heated air AWAY from its source of heat.
For many years I have been building custom cabinetry and doing custom fine woodworking. On every occassion that I have been called upon to build a custom "built-in" home entertainment center or audio cabinet, I have incorporated removeable louvered panels in the "kickboards" at the base of the cabinets. Behind these were cloth filters that could be easily vacuumed.
Toward the front center of each bottom shelf was a routed opening, with the next higher shelf having its routed opening toward the rear center..and so forth and so on... to the top of the cabinet which had routed openings in it, accepting two smalll whisper fans per column, that were exhausting the heated air upward.
In some cases there was some open space above the cabinet, in others there was crown moulding installed at the cabinet top/ceiling. Whenever there was crown moulding installed in this manner, it was provided with 1/8" slots routed into the deeper areas of the moulding for the length of its span over each "equipment column" of each cabinet, these slots stopping for a distance of about 1" at each point just above the end of each column in order to provide support and to eliminate the slots closing together.....these slots gave more than enough flow to easily exhaust the heated area out of the area between the cabinet and the ceiling behind the moulding.
Also, due to the slots in the shelves alternating from front to rear on each shelf, it forced the air to flow across the equipment on each shelf helping to pick up the heat from that equipment....all of this heated air naturally rising with a healthy assist, and drawing into the cabinet cool air from floor level.
Keep in mind that these cabinets had good glass paneled doors on them, which forced the air flow to zig-zag upwards through the slots in the shelves, with minimal air being drawn into the cabinet from around the door edges
Another added benefit of having those whisper fans at exhausting at the top of the cabinet was that the little bit of noise they made was not even noticed.
I hope this idea has been of some help.
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Tom,
Those are KDBR model K-horns...the low end of the K-horn line...probably built in mid to late 70's. Alot of these were bought and mounted inverted on the ceiling in the corners in dance clubs, etc. Basic model of these was built as a single unit, with no "top" over the tweeter/midrange. Although the front lower panel for the woofer and the upper front panel for the tweeter/squawker horns were separate pieces, they are part of the same unit...to make these panels they, one of each was sawn from a single sheet of 4' x 8' birch plywood, but there was never any guarantee that when the cabinet was built, both pieces from the SAME sheet of plywood would be on the SAME cabinet...these two have both pieces on the same cabinet for BOTH units...not easy to find that way!!! A savvy buyer could easily fabricate a couple of tops and have some nice home k-horns at HOPEFULLY a low price...hint, hint!!!
what speakers are these?
in General Klipsch Info
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Edster00,
Thanks, man...but no tellin if I will ever get to do that or not at this point...hell, after reading these Cornwall postings (and you KNOW they are!!!!), the company may decide to come back out with Cornwalls themselves (but I doubt the earlier versions will ever be offered as an option again)...but I would hope there wouldn't be any of em made with MDF core like they are gonna be using in the new heritage revival models...I personally prefer plywood and/or lumbercore myself!!!!
HML's, huh?...well, I personally don't remember building any mahoghany heresys...and I probably never built more than 2,000 or so (maybe more) miter-jointed heresys (trust me, at over about 50-75 mitered heresy cabinets a day for a solo builder...and twice that for a team back then), it don't take alot of days to build that many over 7 years)...but, who knows, maybe I was the builder...my memory ain't perfect on everything I did a quarter century ago!!!