HDBRbuilder
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Hetmann,
If my last posting wasn't much help, please understand that it is difficult to make a comparison to an unseen set of plans for a procedure.
I do remember this though:
1. When assembling the "wings"(the two sections that make that part of the folded horn at the top and the bottom of horn , with the "pyramid" between them):
a. the angled glue block(made out of solid pine) at the sharpest interior angle(towards what will be the rear of the horn) was always left with each side sticking out somewhat to be cut down by the builder when in the final assmbly stage. We had a jig to draw a line on the largest panel of that assembly(which ends up either becoming the top or the bottom of the horn). The jig fitted to the rear of that piece. When installing that particular glueblock, it was critical that even if the sharp bevel's edge(which lined up on the line) wasn't perfectly flat along its surface, giving a perfect sharp edge to line up with the drawn line, the block still be attached "eyeballing" its placement relative to its other parallel edges to that line(I hope this is making sense...it is so much easier to show you than to try and explain). This glue block would often warp or bow and had to be muscled into shape to follow the line. The same can be said for the other block at the other end of that panel.
b. the positioning of the block at the rear of the "wing" to which the "tailpiece" will be mounted is pretty critical(we always used a jig) because it will require more sanding to fit the tail piece it not installed "square" to the jig line.
2. The "pyramid" is just a "*****" to build to start with!!!...Nuff said!!!
3. Probably the most important thing one can do is at the very beginning!!! The surface of the worktable needs to be perfectly flat. When laying the front panel face down on it to begin final assembly of the horn, the panel needs to be perfectly flat against the table surface(these panels tend to curl some at times) and the best way to ensure this is to clamp its edges all around to the worktable to ensure it remains flat. Trust me, this simple safeguard will solve alot of grief later on!!!
Either way, I could be alot more help to somebody trying to build a k-horn if I was onsite, but...alas...that isn't possible!
One bigtime suggestion, tho...If anyone out there who decides to attempt building a k-horn DOESN'T have a good quality tablesaw, etc...AND MOST IMPORTANTLY very good woodworking skills combined with a COMPLETE understanding of how each part will relate to the others from the very beginning of the process...and still attempts to build one...please make sure your life insurance has a suicide clause in it that favors your survivors!
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Khorn58...GOOD CALL on that label!!!
Geez...I must have been brain-dead or something...I kept thinking....M-2-S...now what the hell is that "2" all about?....so, I was thinking..."Well, the labels ALWAYS gave the finish type as far as I know...does the "S" mean shellac, instead of satin?"....of course...it is an "L"!!!!! Now it all makes sense!!!!!!! Bigtime "DUH" here right now!!!!LOL!...THANKS!!!!
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Fred,
What K-horn58 said.
Seriously, like I said before, if the finish is basically good...then I would leave it alone except for a bit of touch-up un the scratches...and OFTEN you don't even really need to try to use any touch-up FINAL COAT, if the scratches arent too big. Just a marker to blend the coloring so they kinda disappear. Sometimes trying to use the same final coat to do touch-up on scratches makes them look worse than they were to start with, OR will entail as much effort as it takes to do a complete refinish.
As for the book I recommended...It is excellent, and has alot of good "tricks of the trade" in it...even if you don't need a good reference very often, this one is well-worth the cost. It also has an EXCELLENT section on "touch-ups" with a variety of techniques explained and illustrated in such a manner that even "Jethro Bodine" could make professional-grade repairs.
Just as Khorn58 said....if at all possible, just give it a touch-up where needed and a good waxing and buffing.
I would like to reiterate that saving the original grille cloth on its panels for posterity and taking the new grill cloth and intalling it on new replica panels should be given some consideration, too.
I am pretty sure your k-horn is mahoghany...but it sure would be nice to know what that model code stands for...maybe somebody can tell us? I assume the "m" stands for mahoghany...but it would be best to be positive on that. If the literature said laquer, then it was laquer...NOT shellac (Unless a customer maybe made a special request?). PWK has never been one to "bullsh*t" anyone. Again we come to that code on the label....
Fred...have you even considered that this k-horn or parts of it may have even been built by PWK himself? I know for a fact that in those days there were only something like 4 or 5 permanent employees(maybe even fewer!) there...something to think about....kinda like that 1937 Cord being built by E.L. Cord himself? (of course THAT never happened...LOL!)
I am sure that once you post some good pics of the damage you desire to repair, you will get plenty of suggestions from khorn58 and me...and likely others, too!!!
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Well, I don't know about you...but I have been kept pretty doggone busy ever since I entered this forum a week or so ago...mostly answering alot of questions...which I don't mind at all...and having the time of my online life in this learning environment...but, somebody chip in here, please....LOL!
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Fred,
I am assuming that the code on the label means mahoghany, SHELLACED (not laquered)...this would also explain the alligatoring of the final finish coats, since shellac would be more likely to do this over time than a good quality furniture laquer(one of the reasons laquer replaced shellac in popularity). Also, from your pics, the wood appears to be mahoghany (unless it is black walnut that has been severely exposed to sunlight, which I sincerely doubt).
One big question here: Do you really have a burning desire to refinish this speaker? If not, then leave it as is....because, like all antiques, it is worth more if it has its ORIGINAL finish on it, no matter how good the condition is...just something to consider. Although this attitude hasn't really made huge inroads into the "antique/classic electronics collector" crowd at this time, trust me, it will!
Shellac is organic-based...coming from a bug larval shell....its solvent and medium is alcohol....but instead of my getting into detail about all the nuances involved in stripping and refinishing, let me suggest this: Go to Lowe's or Home Depot. You SHOULD find this very popular excellent softbound guide: The New Wood Finishing Book, completely updated and revised, by Michael Dresdner...this should anwer all your questioins about finishes, stripping, and best finish to use in your refinishing.
If this was MY k-horn, and it had serial number 614 on it, unless the finish was pretty trashed, I would take a touchup marker, touch up any scratches, give it a good gunstock wax rubbing and buffing, and just listen to it...but that is me!!!..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it...especially if it is K-horn number 614!"...please keep in mind your own desire to get the tweeter back to ORIGINAL, when you consider whether to refinish it...just a thought!!!!! But I see no problem with installing new grill cloth, especially since it is the same stuff as on the original....maybe even the fabrication of new frames for the new grill cloth, while saving the original frames with cloth on them for posterity?
If you DO decide to go ahead with a refinish of it, once you have it stripped, you can send me some pics of any veneer damage, dents, etc...and I will be more than happy to tell you how to fix them before you refinish it.
I hope this was some help to you.
P.S. Look at it this way...if you had a 1937 Cord, with good original paint on it, would you have it repainted just because it had a small chip in it here and there? You have one helluva tribute to PWK on your hands; think seriously about this, please.
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Just one point to make here...before we get all caught-up in which horn (that will fit in a home listening environment) is best....I WANNA HEAR THE JUBILEE!!!!
From VERY good authority, who was VERY close to the action in the development of the Jubilee, it may be that PWK has opened a new can of "whoop-azz" with it...let's hope that this will NOT be his last contribution to loudspeaker design, but if it ends up so, I sincerely hope it drives the audiophile world crazy into the NEXT millenium and beyond in their attempts to equal or surpass it...PWK deserves at least that much!!!!!
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Hetmann,
1. I have never seen the speakerlab plans, so I have no idea if the procedure is the same or not.
2. Not only are the cuts for most of the parts involved in the building of a K-horn critical, but in many cases they are downright difficult...even if using the special jigs and such that are used everyday at Klipsch to provide parts that will fit together properly!!! I can imagine what a bear it would be to attempt the cuts without the jigs, but it CAN be done!!!
3. Even if the cuts on the parts are absolutely perfect, if they aren't properly assembled into the sub-assemblies, the final assembly of the folded horn may not EVER go together correctly!!!...again the use of jigs for this assembly (and sometimes some serious muscle power for warped or bowed parts) is the easiest way to accomplish this, but is no guarantee of a perfect fit...that is why...
4. K-horn builders at Klipsch have at their disposal numerous sets of arms to muscle things together, and some "adjusters for fit" better known as angle-head body grinders, belt sanders, etc....LOL!
In other words..."There ain't no easy way to build a k-horn, just less-difficult ones!!!!"...LOL!
BTW...you can quote me on that!
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Chemfarma,
Beautiful work!!! Is that hard rock maple you used?
In reference to mpgwagon's remark: Well, man, if PWK thought the LaScala was so damned beautiful, then why the hell did he beautify it by making the Belle?...hint, hint!
Fact is, other than the design of the actual FUNCTIONAL part of the speaker cabinet, the only reason speaker cabinets aren't more beautiful than they already are is due to cost consideration on an already costly speaker!!!(ie., the difference in cost between the LaScala and the Belle).
I worked at Klipsch for just over 7 years and not once did an employee purchase a pair of speakers without something aesthetically pleasing (at least to the intended owner) being incorporated into the cabinet...whether it was just a custom match of some extraordinarily beautifully grained wood, to various little treatments added to the cabinet!!!...AND...not once did PWK see a pair in his wanderings through the plant and not stop and go over to look at them...never offering up any bad commentary unless he felt the functionality of the cabinet was compromised, and even then his negative commentary was tactfully delivered with a suggestion on how to achieve a similar appearance and still retain the functionality of the design!!! The key is to use common sense and not to compromise the intended FUNCTION!!!...Nuff Said
By the way, there were some absolutely gorgeous LaScalas built for employees...(LSBL)...very beautiful matched grain in the birch plywood and many had at least a 1/4" roundover of the edges of the top, and the outer vertical edges of the sides, if not an ogee treatment!...many also had the horn lens openings done in a router treatment!...one or two pairs were even two-tone, with the doghouse in high-gloss or flat black and the rest in clear laquer....(not quite MY cup of tea, but then again I didn't have to look at them everyday)...the point here is that the sky is the limit in aesthetics on a LaScala, since it is such a basic cabinet to start with.
Once again, great job, Chemfarma!!!
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Allan,
Well, with that riser set-up, you gotta be one of those "subwoofer?...I don't need no stinkin' subwoofer!!" kinda guys...LOL! I bet you can feel the bass through yer shoes all over the house!!!!...especially if ya got a concrete slab foundation!!!!
Lookin forward to the pics!
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Alan,
Yes, gunstock oil is some great stuff...and, like olde english red oil, Birchwood Casey gunstock oil is available at the closest Wally world (just a bit more pricey than the Olde English, tho).
dnsphishin,
As for your question about application, just follow the instructions on the container...they will generally tell you that you may need to re-apply a day or so later if the wood has dried out considerably, in order to get the achieve the proper lustre. Most likely, unless you dipped the cabinet into a vat of oil and left it there for a half hour or so, you would not have to worry about a "one-time" instance over oiling, PROVIDED you wiped it down immediately afterwards!!!! It does take awhile for the veneers to soak up alot of oil...but still, over time, too much oil can possibly degrade the veneer glue's adhesion, eventually leading to separation...
Again, just follow the directions, and if needed, re-apply according to directions at the time interval given (normally a day or two).
In the old days people often used just plain boiled linseed oil...it still works well, but tends to cause more rapid buildup of grunge over time than some of the other wood oils used today. Some people lightly oil the cabinets, then after a few days give a nice light gunstock wax treatment to them, which provides a bit more protection to dampness/spills(provided they are wiped up pretty quickly) and a better shine, but eventually will have to be stripped off...whatever works for you!!!!
Please do remember that it is NOT ONLY the sides and top that need care, but also the bottom of the cabinet if it is veneered...and the risers if they are installed.
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Allan,
Very nice!!!! I am sure you are very proud of these!! Because I was only at Klipsch from 76-83, and I am VERY aware that other cabinet construction methods were used prior to that period, I have some questions that would be much easier answered if I could see closer pictures of these than our having to write alot out.
I would love to know if these are stained birch decorators with lap-joints or the fine veneers with mitered joints, or some other construction method.
I would also like to know if they are on risers or if that was part of the cabinet design, then(the grill cloth stops above the bottom of the unit from what I can tell in your pic).
A closer oblique pic of one of the upper front corners of the cabinet would answer the first question and a good relatively close pic of the lower front at a slight angle would answer the second question...in lieu of a verbal answer...would love to have this info!!!
On occasion...a RARE occasion, when I was building Cornwalls, I would have to build up one especially for a customer at the customer's request. Often this was because the original purchase order was for a single speaker for a monaural system. These cabinet types varied in construction and one or two had the "riser" integral to the cabinet design instead of it being an add-on piece...I am wondering if yours fall into that design category.
Thanks for sharing!!!!
This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-22-2002 at 04:17 PM
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Lynnm,
I did realize you weren't "knocking" ALL of the turntables from that era...but I was trying to give a hint to the savvy reader on this forum...if one notices that the Technics SL1200 turntables (greatly loved by DJ's for many years) are going for a small fortune in excellent used condition (yes, they are still considered one helluva turntable, or else people wouldn't be paying so damned much for em), one may also note that the SL1300 of that era in excellent condition goes for a song!!!!...For the life of me I can't understand why!!!! Even new, it was IDENTICAL to the SL1200, in design and quality...even specs, but it had the added feature of automatic tonearm return in the manual mode (and one could use the automatic start lever, which I never did)...and new, it cost more than the SL1200 due to the addition of these features!!! WARNING: The SL1300 is NOT the same as the later lightweight 1300 "series" models that had letter suffixes(most of which had adjustments for speed pitch, etc. ahead of the dustcover instead of under it)...It is also not the same as ones which had numbers following the "13" in their designations, instead of a pair of zeros!!!!!...the easy way to tell?...pick em up!!!...The SL1300 is a heavyweight just like its twin brother the SL1200. BTW, the Technics SL1300 MSRP in 1976 was $299.95, with the MSRP of the SL1200 being $279.95...alot of money in those days, but still alot cheaper than the top of the line Thorens belt-drive model TD-125AB MarkII at $410.00 or the belt-drive Empire Troubadour III 598 at $399.95, and the two Technics' specs placed them between the two...(BTW, the Empire was the "King"...had better specs...BUT had to be returned often for repairs in those days, whereas the Technics models just kept playing and playing and playing....)
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Lynnm,
Thanks...lucky me, huh? When this thread first opened I had already asked the seller a few questions in e-mails and had been watching a few days and the following thought hit me: "Damn!!!, now everybody on the forum will be bidding these up!!! There goes my chance of getting a deal on em!!!" As it turned out, a previous bidder had opted to have that proxy bid thing and had already given a max bid of 500 bucks...but the bid was only showing 430 bucks 30 minutes before bidding closed, so I bid on it at 435...but I was outbid...you can imagine me frantically bidding in small increments over and over again just to see I was outbid each time...fingers flying all over the keyboard!!!...LOL!...When I got outbid by the proxy to 500 bucks I thought..."OK, I'm gonna give this one more shot at 510 bucks!!! Maybe there arent any more bids and there is only two minutes to go!!!!" And I got it!!!!...LOL! I just hope that when the seller told me everything was in "excellent working order", they were right!
Dizrotus,
As for the misspelling, that is the major drawback to online auctions, if the potential bidders use a search machine to look up what they want the easy way. Klipsch is sometimes misspelled by the sellers when listing, as are other "keywords" potential bidders use in their searches.
As to gutting out the cabinets to resell the components...that is definitely NOT my intention....I am hoping that I can revive the cabinets and that the components are still in "excellent working order" as I was told by the seller. Although the carpet covers the back of the cabinets (where the label is), the seller also told me that they were definitely the real thing. It was difficult for me to try and confirm this in my mind with just one photo of just one of the speakers, but the tweeter throat apppears to be electrovoice with the reinforcing rib on each side of it, and the midrange horn lens appears to be correct in size and looks, and the crispness of the front edge of the "doghouse" and its centering appear to be the real thing (I saw alot of knock-offs when I worked there...we would obtain a pair and tear them apart to see if they were correct in dimension of parts and were well-built, etc...and, FYI they were normally pretty crappy, with nails shot into the interior of the doghouses when the panels above and below the doghouses were assembled to them...lousy glue bead lines with gaps in them , etc...). Also, in the doghouse portion and on the edges around the upper horn lenses there appeared to be little damage (nicks, scratches, etc.)...so I may only have to do some minor touchups here and there at the front of them. I imagine there will be alot of work to the sides and tops after the carpet is removed...I hope not, tho....either way, even if i have to do a total cabinet rebuild, the components are worth far more than I paid for the entire speakers...and I just happen to have 11 4x8 sheets of 3/4" birch plywood in storage that could make some very nice NEW cabinets
..hell, I may just buy some Oak veneered Plywood and make some new cabinets anyway!!!!...with a few custom touches to them, of course...even if I use new birch, they will have a few custom touches! When they get here I will post some good "before" pics...I can't wait!!!...Hell, if my luck holds out, they may even be some I built 20 years ago!!!!
I remember that back in 1979 the price for a pair to employees at 40% of MSRP was between 700 and 800 bucks, so I figure I got a pretty damned good deal, no matter what!!!
IndyKlipschfan,
Well...all I can say is "I'm Sowwy"(not really)..."If ya snooze, ya lose"...LOL!...and no, at this point in time they are gonna be kept by me.
First thing I will do when they get here is look em over good, give em a good "lick and a promise" cleaning...connections and such too, then play a cd with the equalizer kicked in and the heresys as a reference...heresys on speaker "A", LaScalas on speaker "B", and with me using the equalizer to defeat out the low-end and midrange to check the top-end, with similar checks for the midrange and the low-end of each LaScala...not exactly the perfect way to test em, but close enough. At least I will know the condition of the components that way...and I can go from there on what I need to do. Trust me, the forum folks will be kept aprised of this project as it progresses.
If I decide "to turn around and resell for a couple hundred more bucks," I will let you know first...but PLEASE don't hold your breath(I would hate to be blamed for your suicide)!!!
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in reference to the hiss:
1. Turn on the amplifier with no other components on, make sure speakers are "on"...if hiss it COULD be speakers OR the preamp/amplifier section, but if NO hiss, it is NOT the speakers.
2. If no hiss from the speakers in "1" above, then run each of your components to their regular hook-ups. Give each one a try to see which produces hiss. If one or more of them produces a hiss, but NOT all of them, then it may be the particular component/s causing the hiss, and NOT the amp...BUT if ALL of em produce a hiss, then it is either the amp or the preamp section causing it....or something causing interference for the amp/preamp...likely a shielding problem.
3. Sometimes if there is a shielding problem and the equipment has either three prong or "enlarged-spade on one side two-pronged" plug, a simple polarity problem in the wall socket is the cause...meaning the black and white wires on the socket need to swap positions....OR there may be a bad ground connection in the wall socket that just needs tightening, or cleaning and tightening....if none of this works then it is likely in the amp/preamp section where the problem lies.
I hope this helps some.
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dndphishin,
Thanks. Your comments are duly noted and appreciated.
I agree with you as per the performance and value relative to the LaScala and Belle. The Cornwall provides more bottom end in an interior environment, although the others provide a bit better dispersion. The advantage of the LaScala is being able to take it outside for patio parties and such, where there are no corners or walls(Cornwall)...which is one of the reasons many buy them over the Cornwall. The Belle is primarily a gorgeous dolled-up version of the LaScala...with cabinetry designed to make the K-horn and it complement each other....in addition it is not as tall as the Cornwall....which, for center channel purposes gives it more sales than a Cornwall. But a pair of Cornwalls proper placed are wonderful!!!
Decorator models are the birch ones with lap-joints at the corners instead of mitered joints. The ones made before sometime around early 1978 were flush-front ones...with the front being flush with the sides(the sides were lapped over the fronts in construction, and fronts lapped the top and bottom). If they had grille cloth, it was attached to front edges with staples and moulding covered it. The drop-in front models followed these...with the fronts inset and attached to glue blocks inside the cabinet, and the sides only had lap joints over the top and bottom....these accepted the same grille cloth (which was attached to a panel)as the fine furniture ones(ie., non-decorator style) such as the CWO, etc.
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Audioholic,
Your input is duly noted and appreciated.
Your comment about the "untrained children and cats" brought a grin to my face. When I bought my HDBL's, even though the company had "officially" just recently made the changeover to the "drop-in" front style of Heresy cabinet, I opted to build the earlier flush front style with no grill cloth attached...is nice to look at pair of speakers with the horns and driver looking back at you surrounded by wood. Well, I had them home for a week or so and a recently adopted orphaned cat took great interest in how the woofers moved back and forth when they were cranked up...so i took the heresys back out to the plant one day and asked for final assembly to install an "industrial motorboard" in each of them....like the ones used on the industrial stage monitor version of the heresy. Ergo...no cat claws get the woofer cone and no grill cloth needed to protect the cone, either.
Industrial motorboard: Basically the black industrial finish painted onto aluminum grating which is securely attached to a black painted 3/8" baltic birch plywood frame with heavy staples. the assembly is then installed to the inside of the speaker front with the grating side of the motorboard forward.
For the do it yourself crowd:
Note: This is NOT for the later drop-in front style of heresy made from late 1977 forward until the advent of the Heresy II model which had drop-in fronts, and front flush-mounted components...but for the earlier flush front cabinet Decorator models....although with minor modifications to the frame of the motorboard so that it clears the glue blocks inside, they CAN be made for the later "drop-in front" models that have the components mounted from INSIDE the cabinet, but where they are relieved of wood to clear the glue blocks, they shouldn't quite touch the glue blocks.
1. Frame: 3/8" baltic birch. Inside diameter (ID) is 1/8" to 1/4" greater than ID of opening on speaker front...(NOTE: this is a bit critical...you want enough wood so that when mounting the woofer to it, the t-nuts' flanges don't exceed the ID, but ALSO so that the ID is just shy of the Hole in the speaker cabinet, so that you have a minor overlap of the speaker front to the hole in the frame.) Outside diameter (OD) 1-1/2"to 2" greater than ID. This will give a minimum width to the frame of 3/4" to 1". Don't make it any larger(this eliminates possibility of vibration).
2. Frame is predrilled to accept t-nuts on one side. T-nuts will be used to mount the Woofer with machine bolts to one side of the frame(be sure that the frame is centered over the woofer when marking the holes for the t-nuts). After predrilling the frame to accept the t-nuts, and BEFORE installing the t-nuts, slightly relieve the area of the wood where the t-nut flange will be so that t-nut flange will be either EXACTLY flush or just a "hair" deep of the frame surface...this is important!! (NOTE: this can also be done PRIOR to drilling the holes by using a brad point drill bit to "break" or scribe to depth the surface of the wood so no chipping or tear-out occurs, followed by cleaning up the inset surface with a spade type drill bit...AND this leaves a nice pilot hole for the drill bits to follow!!!). When you drive in the t-nuts, be sure they dont get off center. Now, predrill the frame again to accept the woofer...these holes are the ones that will attach the assembly to the inside of the speaker front with wood screws...they need to be offset around the perimeter from those with the t-nuts in them, but not very far from those holes, because you don't want the woofer to be very far "cocked" off its original axis from the axis it normally has when the assembly is done so that the wiring reaches the crossover and the speaker back...a good idea is to fit the frame inside the cabinet now to be sure that the orientation of the screw holes for the wood screws (which are, relative to the speaker front, on a time-clock format about 1:30, 4:30, 7:30, and 10:30...AM or PM...your choice...LOL!...this is important to provide best support for the weight of the woofer when using wood screws as short as those used in the heresy...trust me on this one). IMPORTANT: be sure that when marking these holes, NO T-nuts will end up over the Midrange horn flange when the motorboard is mounted...AND be sure the woofer is centered on the frame when marking for these holes, Now, using long wood screws, just BARELY screw the frame to the inside and mark where you will have to "relieve" it so that it clears the flange of the midrange horn. Relieve wood from the outside of the frame where necessary. Lightly sand and then paint the frame assembly flat black.
3. Cut a piece of aluminum grating (the kind that has the little diamond shaped holes ..and is about 1/16" or so thick..Important: it needs to be fairly stiff but not too thick) to just under the size of each frame shape...be sure to orient the little diamonds on the grating so that they are pointing up and down relative to the speaker front for a nice look
...it helps to already have a centerline mark on the frames when doing this to orient the grating. A dremel tool with a cutting wheel on it is a good way to cut the grating so that it doesn't get bent...it is important that the grating is nice and flat. After the grating pieces are cut, paint them with a good polymer textured flat black paint(it is a good idea to give the grating a good rinse with acetone to clean any oils off of it prior to painting it)4. After the paint on the parts are dry, take some good black silicone caulk or gasket sealer. Apply a THIN COAT (NOT a bead)to the frame on the side that the grating will go and attach the grating to it with heavy staples. Be sure that the silicone does not get on the inside of the frame...JUST the area where the grating will be against it. This has to be accomplished rapidly so that the silicone sets up AFTER the grating is attached. Once the silicone has set up, then you can now apply a good CONSISTENT, EVEN , but NOT real large bead of silicone caulk around the perimeter of the frames on the grating side....just inside the edge of the diameter of the hole in the assembly. Let it set-up overnite...this is the "flexible gasket" to seal the assembly to the speaker front when it is mounted. I know all of this may seem overkill, but you dont want any buzzing or rattling when you crank your speakers up...and you need a good seal on heresy woofers.
5. Now comes the easy part...mount the motorboards in the speaker cabinets, grating toward the front, with wood screws, pressing tightly against the motorboards as you do this, so that a good seal is made and the wood screws don't strip out the wood trying to draw up the motorboards up tight by themselves. (NOTE: If you are doing this on Drop-in front models, it may be a good idea for you to provide some support for the front when pressing down hard against it from inside...hint, hint!!!) Take machine bolts and bolt the woofers to the motorboards. Hook up the wiring inside the cabinets like before, put on the backs, and look at your pretty new grilles. Then, hook up the speakers and crank em up to test for leakage and rattles. If you did it right, as I instructed, there won't be any!!!! Time now for the Snoopy "happy dance"!!!... to the music of your choice
This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-22-2002 at 11:30 AM
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The old SS vs. Tube debate will never die out. That's for sure....but...in the end, it all boils down to what sounds good to the owner, as is the case for any type of audio equipment.
I have used a Harman/Kardon 900+ (bought new in 1975) for over a quarter century and love how it sounds through my heritage models. I also love how a Dynaco Stereo 400 model of the same vintage works with them. Both of these are high quality items, but vintage ones. The point here is that they are vintage and HAVE held up well through that same quarter century as has the other equipment I purchased back then...which brings me to the point that QUALITY is a very important consideration in a purchase. Reputation of the manufacturer for its quality should be considered.
Fact is, there are differences between different tube amps just as there are differences between SS ones in what the listener hears coming out of the speakers. Differences also may be found not only between different models from the same manufacturer, but also between each separate amp of that model...each one being a single entity.
When making a purchase the best way to decide is to give the equipment a try in the listening environment of the potential user, since that is where the equipment will ultimately end up. If it sounds the way you want it to sound in that environment, then the spec sheet can be thrown out the window, and the purchaser will be a grinning happy camper. Those who rely solely on specs and the name of the manufacturer for purchases sometimes end up losing alot of money over the years through trying to find the "perfect" piece of equipment to give them "that sound" where they listen to it most.
"Let your ears decide"
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TBrennon,
As for our opinions, we all have them and that is what makes each of us unique. As for my last posting I was referring "toungue in cheek" to the various offerings-up by the "horn nay-sayers" over the years and how they consistently used the K-horn as a reference for comparison to justify their beliefs that a horn had been defeated by the "new kid on the block" non-horn-loaded speaker... but this new kid on the block never seemed to be around long, constantly changing, whereas the comparison point the "horn nay-sayers used over the last half century is still around. Whether or not we believe that the K-horn is the best of the horn-loaded speakers around is our own opinions, but we DO agree that the horn is a superior reproducer of sound... which was my point.
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"Klipsch, a Legend in Candlestands"
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Dan,
No problem....isnt't this what we are all here for?...to ask questions, answer questions, give our opinions, and generally enjoy ourselves reading all of this and being part of a mutual harassment society that loves Klipsch speakers? That's why I'm here, you?
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Lynnm,
re: "Admittedly, most twenty five year old turntables would be crap now just because they were crap when they left the factory"
25 years ago was 1977, and admittedly, from that time FORWARD... there were fewer and fewer turntables being offered with high quality for a variety of reasons: the bad U.S. economy (trust me, we were the world's largest consumer of home electronics back then too), the advent of CD's, the tendency of manufacturers to cut quality in order to cut costs so a product would move, etc.
BUT, for a short period during the five or six years prior to that, some of the very best turntables ever made were produced" Empire Troubadour, Thorens TD 125, and others from the aging belt-driven fleet were still high tech standards striving to survive against the new tech arrivals into the marketplace that were not only promising to improve upon the performance of the established "Kings of the Hill," but living up to those promises. Enter the direct-drive heavyweights from Japanese and other manufacturers firmly establishing a reputation for reliability and shaking the foundations of the industry, with a burning desire to steel a crown for themselves and a sizeable chunk of sales with their lower prices. Technics introduced its SL110, a direct-drive designed to be a giant killer, with half the wow and flutter of the standards of the day, 3-8 dB less rumble, and precison speed control and adjustments...designed to accept the audiophile Micro, Ortofon, and SME tone arms of the time...this was followed within a few months by its bigger brother SL120, then a few months later were introduced the first of Technics' complete models based on these...the SL1100, the SL1200, and the SL1300. The race was on!!!!!, and the cartridge manufacturers jumped onboard...with a healthy shove by the advent of the short-lived CD-4/Discrete era which pushed cartridge technology to its limits....
SOOOOOOOOOO...
Let's not be too hasty in our judgements of the quality of turntables from that time period, please.
(I write this as I sit here listening to CD-4 vinyl recording of Jethro Tull, Aqualung playing on my Technics SL 1300 turntable bought in 1975, with JVC CD-4 cartridge with shibata nude stylus running the signal through the CD-4 demodulator in my Harman Kardon 900+ receiver and coming out of my Heresys)
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They'r mine, Mine, MINE!!!!!!!(wringing fingers, hands, and arms with a lunatic glare)
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Dan,
I would have to reply to your question in this manner: I was never a "designated K-horn builder", nor was I a "designated LaScala OR Belle Klipsch builder".
To explain this:
The LaScala, Belle Klipsch, and Klipschorns, in that ascending order, required the skillful fabrication of a number of parts and sub-assemblies, prior to these parts and sub-assemblies being finally assembled into the final loudspeaker cabinet(in the case of the LaScala) or sections (in the cases of the Belle Klipsch and Klipschorn)
Those individuals who had been there longest tended to become the "designated" builders who used these parts and sub-assemblies for the Klipschorn and Belle Klipsch cabinets, with those there the absolute longest gravitating to the Belles.
But that in no way took away from the requirement that the parts and sub-assemblies had to be fabricated with the same attention to detail as the final assembly of the cabinets. In other words, the final assemblers of the cabinets depended on the builders of their sub-assemblies to do the job right, or else the cabinets would not go together.
Whenever a new employee was assigned to the cabinet shop, they went thru a break-in phase that allowed them to progressively move up from "tailing" the tablesaw for simple rips/crosscuts, pre-drilling the parts and minor sub-assemblies using jigs, and learning to operate the overhead router. This got them used to how even the simplest of tasks required in the building of the speakers required alot of attention to detail. It also gave the foreman an opportunity to see, through observation and close monitoring of progress, whether the new employee was capable of handling responsibility "on his own" and could be trusted to consistently provide quality work.
From this point, if an employee "showed progress," he was allowed to "try his/her hand" at more difficult jobs involved in building the sub-assemblies up. If no progress was made, the employee would be either relegated to the simpler assemblies, be the helper in the building of less complicated cabinets under the tutelage of an experienced builder, or moved to another department to see how well he/she did there...eventually ending up in shipping boxing up speakers if no ability was found...then "out the door!!" if the employee just couldn't do anything right....hey....YOU ASKED!!!LOL!
Every effort was made to retain an employee, but some people are just worthless and don't care...what can I say?
If the employee remained in the cabinet shop and showed promise, he/she ended up building sub-assemblies and helping in the final assembly of "D" style Heresy. If the Lead-man building those saw promise in the employee, then he/she was allowed to be helper in assembly of Cornwalls. From there the employee may graduate to non-decorator style heresy, or LaScala...OR end up becoming Lead-man when building "D" style heresy and Cornwalls...according to need.
I have built LaScalas, when the need arose to "catch-up" in that area and I had plenty of "D" style heresys and both type of Cornwalls built-up to keep the sanders busy for a few days...but never was a "designated LaScala builder".
I have "assisted" in the building of K-horns and Belles, too, but was never a "designated builder" of them....even though you have to know how to build them in order to assist...
After all, for over 6 of the 7 years I worked there, I was the "main man" on decorator heresys and all of the Cornwalls...and that was a key to the positioning of newer employees into other jobs....If they couldn't keep up with me, then they didn't have much hope to advance...LOL!...alot of em didn't, either.
I also built alot of the large theater speaker systems, including sub-assemblies...called the MCM1900 System at that time..of which the woofer section is still in the line-up today...the MWM...but it appears that the squawker, sub-squawker, and tweeter cabinets for that system are not in the line-up anymore. Actually I always hated building the MWM's because of the crawling around on em on your knees to nail on the top and bottom...but I did do it!!!...LOL!
So, to answer your question in another way, even though I never was a "designated builder" for Klipschorns, Belles, or LaScalas, I did build them...
Is that what you were asking?...(Sorry, that was a loaded question you gave me)
P.S. In addition to the MCM1900 System, I built an awful lot of the industrial "slant" heresy stage monitors...Boy!!!, they were alot of fun, LOL!
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As a historian, it is funny to keep seeing a different version of the same thing over the years:
1950: Comparison of the Klipschorn to (whatever was the high dollar "best in the world" speaker that year)
1960: Comparison of the Klipschorn to (whatever was the high dollar "best in the world" speaker that year)
1970: Comparison of the Klipschorn to (whatever was the high dollar "best in the world" speaker that year)
1980: Comparison of the Klipschorn to (whatever was the high dollar "best in the world" speaker that year)
1990: Comparison of the Klipschorn to (whatever was the high dollar "best in the world" speaker that year)
Today: Comparison of the Klipschorn to (whatever is the high dollar "best in the world" speaker this year)
Isn't it strange that one side of this equation remains constant for over half a century, while the other doesn't?
"The purpose of history is to learn about the mistakes in the past so as not to repeat them"
Informal Poll: Should Cornwall Return?
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
CJK1026,
Very nice CDBL's. I noticed they are the earlier flush-front models, but with the rectangular logos instead of the "pie-slice" logos on the front. Not many of those were made. It was only a few months between the changeover from the logo(which occured in winter '77-'78) til the time the flush-front decorator Cornwalls changed to the "drop-in" front ones. The heresy made that cabinet construction change earlier than the Cornwall did...at almost the same time as the logo change.
Look at the top rear edge of the left side near the joint...MOST LIKELY you will find an "A" or "AB" stamped in there...it may be overstamped, or have been sanded over some making it light, or maybe puttied up and filled in...if it is that code, then I built them.
There should be a code stamped in BELOW that too...that is who sanded them(but soemtimes those gals sanded my code off and stamped theirs in where mine used to be...bummer!!!) I kinda would like to know what you find there.
BTW...earlier in this posting, I gave relatively detailed instructions on how to make an industrial motorboard for Heresy models...this was also a popular modification for your style of Cornwalls when employees bought them, although the employee had to make the frames because they weren't already being produced for an industrial model as they were for the heresy line. If you ever chose to add this modification you could do so with alot less effort than required for a heresy industrial motorboard because you would NOT have to do all that notching and relieving of the wood to clear the mid-horn-flange when mounting them...also you would NOT have to worry about the placement of the of the holes you have to drill for the wood screws that mount the board to the front of the speaker cabinet, but could instead just kinda "center" them between the t-nuts on the frame, making the frame part of this process alot simpler. Just a thought!!!(they really look great with those motorboards!!!!...and you never have to worry about the woofer gettin punctured)