Vivek Batra
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Posts posted by Vivek Batra
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6 minutes ago, jason str said:
I run class A on far more sensitive speakers with great results.
I just hung up with a distributor in India who sells Accuphase. He doesn't want to sell Accuphase class A to me but Class A/B. According to him, the low end is not what a Class A can handle but Class A/B with more WPC like > 150 wpc is what Fortes need. Honestly I am not buying this reasoning.
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13 hours ago, polizzio said:
65 lbs. Lux is still made in Japan.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/luxman-l-509x-integrated-amplifier
Indeed candy for eyes.
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14 hours ago, willland said:
Take a look at that beauty.
Bill
Someone just said that Klipsch Forte being very sensitive, Class A is not ideal match but Class A/B. Like 507 ux ii/ Is that true?
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Is it a question? Then yes they do 😀
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Hi All
I am looking for an integrated amplifier for my Forte IIIs. It will be very helpful for me if any of the members here is using Luxman with Klipsch and could guide me. I have no way to demo Luxman near me so I have to rely on feedback and user experience. What I am looking for is laid back, warm and dynamic output at low volumes. My music taste is old western classical, jazz/rock, country songs.
I am torn between Luxman Class A, A/B and tubes. I am bit reluctant to go with tube amp because I never had any tube amp and I am bit scared of its delicate nature, maintenance and itch of tube rolling. I know most people recommend tube amps with Klipsch. Is this the consensus here?
What about Luxman as a brand overall? I heard heating issues with Class A amp in general. I do not have air conditioning in my listening room and summers here are as hot as 40+ deg
Hope to hear something from experienced guys over here and help me choose the right equipment.
Thanks
Vivek
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14 hours ago, mr clean said:
Give us you early thoughts.
My early and very brief thoughts :-). I had sold off my all equipment and started from scratch. Fortes are the first one to arrive in the new setup. But as you know its not possible to buy something and not try it :-). I borrowed an AVR from the dealer just to test and have the initial impressions. They are much more pleasing than RP-8000F I owned previously. Even though I played just from Spotify (that too not premium subscription). Its no more fatiguing and screeching as most people say about Klipsch. Though I had the same complaint about RP -8000F + Denon AVR. But I guess that was my mistake to use an AVR for music. But lesson learnt and got rid of everything to start afresh.
Now nothing to hook up and trying to find a good amp + disc player. So in my brief listening sessions, I am much more than pleased. Fortes are feast for eyes and ears.
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On 11/19/2019 at 8:04 PM, polizzio said:
Congrats! Visual and sonic beauty.
Indeed.
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So after a very long wait of 6 weeks, Fortes in American Walnut finish arrived from Hope AK to all the way to India. Can't stop looking at them.
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On 10/6/2019 at 1:57 AM, robert_kc said:
Hello Vivek,
Most SACD discs are “hybrid SACD”, meaning that they contain 2 layers: a Redbook CD layer, and an SACD layer. (A very few older SACDs have only an SACD layer.)
The SACD layer has copy protection features. As a result, you cannot play the SACD layer on a PC, or copy the SACD layer. (You can play the CD layer of a hybrid SACD on a PC, and you can copy the CD layer.)
Almost all disc players have copy protection features that affect playing SACDs via outboard DACs. Moreover, there are sometimes bandwidth limitations associated with a disc player connecting an outboard DAC. For example, following is an excerpt from the User Manual of my Oppo UDP-205 universal player:
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Due to bandwidth limitations, high resolution audio formats such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution and DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. A reduced resolution version of the same audio track will be output instead. To listen to high resolution audio formats in their best quality, please use the HDMI connection if you have a receiver that handles HDMI audio (see page 12) or use the multi-channel analog outputs if you do not (see page 15).
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Due to copyright restrictions, SACD audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. To listen to SACDs, please use the HDMI or analog audio connections.
- Due to copyright restrictions and bandwidth limitations, full resolution audio from DVD-Audio discs cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. To listen to DVDAudio in full resolution, please use the HDMI or analog audio connections.
The important takeaway is the difference in the capabilities of an HDMI interface vs. TOSLINK and coax.
My understanding (bearing in mind that I’m not an expert) is that if you want a universal disc player, and an outboard stand-alone DAC, and you want to play SACD and Blu-ray, you’ll need a DAC with an HDMI interface. (McIntosh has a proprietary solution for their products.) Examples of HDMI DACs that I’m aware of include the Essence Evolve II-4K, which is a HDMI v2.0a Multi-Channel Audio DAC. And, the Bryston BDA-3 External DAC, which includes an HDMI input – but only supports stereo. (I have no experience with these DACs, and I’m not certain of the formats they support. And I have no experience with their sound quality. There are undoubtedly other choices.)
(There are a few stereo HDMI “network receivers“ (aka “stereo AVR”) – but they are probably not what you’re looking for, considering that you didn’t like the AVR you had: Onkyo TX-8270, Pioneer SX-S30, Denon DRA-800H, Marantz NR1200. FWIW, Marantz solid-state amps sometimes have a reputation for a more musical sound compared with Onkyo – but I have no personal experience.)
OTOH, over the last few years I’ve chosen universal players with built-on “audiophile-grade” DACs (for reasons I’ll discuss below) because I enjoy modern hi-res classical recordings.
The relevance of hi-res audio formats (e.g., SACD, Pure Audio Blu-ray, DVD-Audio, 24bit/192kHz download), and audio/video formats (e.g., Blu-ray, Ultra HD Blu-ray) depends on the genre of music. That’s why I suggested that “Step 1” should be to shop for recordings.
For the classical music that I love, all of the state-of-the-art hi-res audio, and audio/video formats are relevant, because there are modern performances of most classical compositions. And modern performances (i.e., in the last 15 years or so) were almost always captured and mastered in hi-res (i.e., 24bit/192kHz PCM, or DSD). Moreover, most modern classical recordings are made available to the consumer in a hi-res format. Many of my favorite classical recordings feature audio/video and surround-sound, and are only available on a disc (i.e., not available via streaming or download).
IME/IMO the experience provided by Blu-ray is vastly superior to the experience of listening to a CD. Blu-ray audio/video is indispensable for visual art forms such as opera and ballet, and IMO very enjoyable for orchestral music - i.e., watching the conductor and musicians, and seeing the symphony hall. Blu-ray excels at conveying the beauty of this concert hall: https://www.musikverein.at/en/der-grosse-musikvereinssaal (And believe it or not, there are classical musicians who are enjoyable to watch. I suggest watching a YouTube video of Khatia Buniatishvili playing piano., and Elīna Garanča and Anna Netrebko sing. Now imagine that in Blu-ray quality.)
There have been a lot of advances since the CD became available 37 years ago. Each audiophile must decide whether these advances are relevant to the music they love. For me the decision is clear: I want Blu-ray or Ultra HD Blu-ray recordings of the music I love. My second choices are Pure Audio Blu-ray and SACD that feature surround-sound. My third choice is hi-res (e.g., 24bit/192kHz) stereo download. IMO a classical music lover would be foolish to buy a player that only plays the 30+ year-old Redbook CD format, given the wealth of modern hi-res recordings available (including audio/video and multi-channel recordings).
I listen to an entire symphony or opera at a time, so “convenient access” and “random shuffle” aren’t important features for me. (I don’t listen to the first movement of Beethoven Symphony 2, followed by the fourth movement of Mahler Symphony 9, followed by …) Loading a disc into the tray once every hour or so is not an inconvenience for me. The process of dropping a disc into the tray is simple, and reliable, and hassle-free (e.g., no apps freezing).
Therefore, I require a “universal player” that will play ALL audio and audio/video formats: Ultra HD Blu-ray, Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, SACD, 24bit/192kHz download, DVD, and CD. The Oppo UDP-205 has top-of-the-line DACs built-in, and I’m happy with its performance. IME/IMO, top-quality modern hi-res classical recordings played via my Oppo UDP-205 (and BDP-105 and BDP-95) sound fabulous when played via my tube amps and Klipsch speakers.
Because the Oppo UDP-205 is connected to an HDTV, during playback useful information is displayed on the screen, such as volume level, track #, etc. (And when playing an opera on Blu-ray, the libretto can be displayed on the screen, which is extremely useful.) The HDTV screen can easily be “blanked” (i.e., black) via the “Pure Audio” button on the Oppo’s remote control. (I think of this feature like a “video mute” button.) And the UDP-205 has a parameter for volume setting upon power-on (i.e., either a user specified fixed value, or the last value). This feature eliminates the possibility of accidentally having the volume set extremely loud when the unit is turned on. (This is important if you alternate between classical and pop recordings, because pop recordings are typically mastered MUCH louder than the average volume level in classical recordings.) And there is a parameter setting for the maximum volume level. The UDP-205’s implementation of volume control is more convenient IMO than trying to guess from the listening chair where the volume control is set on a pre-amp. And IMO being able to see information about the recording (e.g., track #) on the HDTV screen is easier than trying to see the small display on a CD player.
Because I enjoy classical orchestral music, opera, and ballet Blu-ray audio/video recordings, I see no distinction between a “hi-fi system” and a “home theater system”. The Oppo units provide capabilities that are essential to me: analog audio connections (stereo, 2.1, 5.1, 7.1) for my vintage tube amps and subwoofers, and the Oppo units provide variable audio output. And ultra HD video.
Maybe someday all classical recordings will be available via streaming and download, including hi-res video and surround-sound audio. And maybe someday streaming and download services will provide the best available quality. Today, Blu-ray discs, and the Oppo UDP-205, suit my needs best.
However, I recognize that my tastes in music, and my audio/video requirements are unique. Some people listen exclusively to vintage audio-only recordings.
For music that was recorded decades ago, the audio quality is limited by decades-old recording technology. In some cases, a high-quality analog master tape from decades ago has been digitized at hi-res with good results, and made available as an SACD, or hi-res download. Similarly, some older movies were recorded on large-format film, and can be digitized and delivered on Blu-ray with good results. OTOH, early digital recordings (audio and video) might not benefit as much from re-mastering – but that’s a generalization – and I’m not an expert on mastering recordings. My experience is that modern recordings (audio and video) generally have the best audio and video quality.
If all of the music you like is available as a download in the best available audio quality (whether that’s 16bit/44.1kHz or 24bit/192kHz or DSD), then you may not need a disc player. I suggest that you search HDTracks. com for downloads. Some HDTracks downloads are “CD quality” (16bit/44.1kHz), and some are higher resolution (e.g., 24bit/96kHz or 24bit/192kHz). Provenance of the recording is important – garbage-in/garbage-out - you can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear – in other words a poor-quality recording can’t be magically transformed just by delivering it in a hi-res container. (If you pour a gallon of milk into a 55-gallon drum, it’s still only a gallon of milk.)
Some people employ “hacking” to get around the copy protections on SACDs. You can google this topic for details. (As far as I’m concerned, this is a somewhat complex process that appeals to PC hobbyists.) Reportedly the process to copy Blu-ray discs is not as complex. Copying all disc types (CD, SACD, Blu-ray) requires an investment of time and money by the audiophile. Some think the effort is worth it, some don’t. (Some people like to choose individual songs, and build playlists, and don’t want to load a different disc for each 3-minute song, and value having all music on NAS.)
My understanding – but I have no experience - is that once hi-res files are loaded on NAS (via download or copying discs), then an appropriate DAC can play any hi-res format. That DAC can be stand-alone, or built into another appliance, such as a disc player, pre-amp, or integrated amp. (Some like a stand-alone DAC for upgrade flexibility, some like all-in-one approach with a DAC built into an integrated amp or receiver, thereby minimizing the number of components, and interconnect cables, and associated integration efforts.)
I recognize that people enjoy the hobby of hi-fi differently. I respect the fact that some people enjoy the process of “hacking” software, and copying discs, and building a system based on NAS storage. However, this is not how I choose to spend my time. To each their own.
As I said earlier, I suggest these steps:
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Shop for recordings, and determine which formats for consumer deliverables are relevant to the music that you like. (The audio quality of your hi-fi system will be limited by the quality of the recordings, so I suggest that you focus a lot of your effort on seeking the best quality recordings for the music you like.)
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Once you know which recording formats must be supported, then you can decide on a compatible player(s). (For example, you might want a turntable for LPs, a universal disc player, and a way to play internet radio and Spotify Premium.)
- Once you’ve selected a player(s), then you can decide on an amp that is a good match for the player(s). Because your Klipsch Forte III are relatively sensitive (99dB), you won’t need a lot of power.
Different audiophiles will reach different conclusions based on the music they like, their budget, and their preferences:
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The Oppo UDP-205 universal player is the best solution for me. I also own BDP-105 and BDP-95, which are good products that play all disc types except Ultra HD Blu-ray. (Unfortunately, Oppo no longer manufactures products. If you can buy a used UDP-205, BDP-105 or BDP-95 for a reasonable price, that’s something you might consider.)
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Another audiophile who wants a universal disc player, and needs analog audio connections for stereo (i.e., 2 channel) only, might choose a Sony ES UBP-X1100ES player (or older and cheaper UBP-X1000ES). (I have no experience with this player, but have read positive comments on another forum about its audio quality. Given that you aren’t interested in multi-channel, the Sony ES UBP-X1100ES may be a good choice, if you want the most flexibility in choosing disc formats. You’d need a pre-amp (or integrated amp) for a volume control, subwoofer connection, and tone controls.)
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Another audiophile might build a solution around the Essence Evolve II-4K, which is a HDMI v2.0a Multi-Channel Audio DAC. Or, the Bryston BDA-3 External DAC, which includes an HDMI input, but is stereo only. I don't know if there are other stand-alone DACs that support HDMI. (I have no experience with these DACs, and I’m not certain of the formats they support. And I have no experience with their sound quality.)
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Another audiophile who only wants to play CDs (no SACD or Blu-ray), plus stream hi-res files from NAS, and support services like Spotify Premium, might choose something like the Marantz ND8006 CD player / music streamer, and employ its variable analog audio output to directly drive a power amp. This player also has (2) optical inputs, plus coaxial and USB type B digital inputs. (I have no experience with this player.)
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Another audiophile who only wants to stream from NAS and services like Spotify Premium, might choose something like Bluesound Node 2i, or Bluesound Vault 2i which provides a CD ripper and 2TB of storage. These units have a mono RCA subwoofer output. (I have no experience with this player.)
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John Q. Public (and some audiophiles) will choose an AVR, whether stereo or multi-channel, that has HDMI inputs, and can support all formats.
- I’m certain there are many other types of solutions. The options can be bewildering.
Regarding amps, if you get a Luxman CL-38uC pre-amp, or LX-380 integrated amp, I’ll be jealous.
I’ve never owned any of the Luxman tube gear. (I collect US tube amps.) IMO these Luxman units are very handsome, and have a good reputation. FWIW, I also think the McIntosh C22 and C70 are very handsome pre-amps that could be paired with an MC275. Is McIntosh gear available in India? Any of these products would be an investment that is “heirloom quality”, and be a great complement to your Klipsch Forte III. (Both manufacturers also offer solid-state amps.)
FWIW, following are links to a few of my other posts that might be relevant for someone who is new to this discussion:
I’ll stop rambling for now. Tonight, I’m attending the first performance of my local symphony’s 2019/2020 season, and I need to prepare to attend dinner with family and friends, and then the concert. I’m looking forward to it.
I hope this helps, rather than confuses.
Hopefully others will join the conversation, and share their experience. Some people are far more knowledgeable than me about stand-alone DACs, and NAS-based solutions.
Hi @robert_kc
I am replying late because was bit short of time and I wanted to give a in depth read to what you have suggested. The resolution issue with coaxial and Toslink is new to me. Thanks for enlightening me. I think I need a lot more clarifications before I finalize something.
I liked the idea of buying a universal disc player, as I do not want to reply on streaming any more. As you have suggested going with HDMI in between a UDP and DAC, I need to explore which DACs are available near me.
I still need to go through all the threads that you have shared, that's for the weekend I guess. I'll keep this post alive as I progress with my search and gaining knowledge.
Thanks a lot for sharing so much useful information.
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Due to bandwidth limitations, high resolution audio formats such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution and DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. A reduced resolution version of the same audio track will be output instead. To listen to high resolution audio formats in their best quality, please use the HDMI connection if you have a receiver that handles HDMI audio (see page 12) or use the multi-channel analog outputs if you do not (see page 15).
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17 minutes ago, Raygun said:
I am using a Pass Labs X-150.5. I purchased it when I purchased the Thiels that the Klipsch replaced. The Thiels need a lot of power to work right. The Pass stuff is expensive, but you might find a reasonable deal on the used market. I think my amp used would go for 1700 USD to 2500 depending on condition. I love it!
Its class A for the first 10 watts I think then goes into AB, but it runs hot. If you go that route make sure you have good air conditioning.Hi @Raygun.
I think Pass Labs is way beyond my reach in India. They are quite costly here. My room is not air conditioned and the temperture in summer goes up to 40 deg celcius. I have heard that the Class A amps runs like heaters😀. But thanks for chimming in.
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5 hours ago, robert_kc said:
Hello Vivek,
Of course, the most important thing is the music.
As I mentioned in one of your other threads, I suggest that you first shop for recordings, and determine which formats for consumer deliverables are relevant to the music that you like:
- LP?
- Downloaded hi-res PCM (e.g., 24bit/192kHz or 24bit/96kHz FLAC from HDTracks.com, or prestomusic.com/classical/formats/download, etc.)?
- Downloaded hi-res DSD (e.g., nativedsd.com, or acousticsounds.com/superhirez, etc.)?
- CD?
- DVD (e.g., concert videos)?
- DVD-Audio (i.e., older "better-than-CD-quality" audio recordings)?
- SACD (newer hi-res recordings)?
- Pure Audio Blu-ray (i.e., newer hi-res audio-only disc – i.e., no video)?
- Blu-ray (e.g., concert videos)?
- Ultra HD Blu-ray (e.g., state-of-the-art concert videos)?
- Will you play music directly from the disc (e.g., CD, SACD, Pure Audio Blu-ray), or will you copy all music to network-attached-storage ("NAS"), and play music files from NAS? (Copying the SACD layer of a hybrid SACD reportedly requires arcane “hacking” procedures. Copying Blu-ray reportedly can be done with the right hardware and software.)
- Spotify Premium, Tidal HiFi, Qobuz, etc.? Support for MQA?
- Other?
Here’s my earlier long ramble about whether various formats are relevant for a given genre: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/186021-klipsch-rf-7-iii-vs-forte-iii/&do=findComment&comment=2414963
If you’re not interested in video (e.g., concert videos), or surround-sound, or LPs, then your needs are simpler. Is all of the music you like available via streaming (e.g., Spotify Premium, Tidal HiFi, Qobuz), and/or hi-res downloads (e.g., HDTracks)? Or, are some recordings that you like only available on discs (e.g., CD or SACD or Blu-ray or LP)? If some recordings are only available on discs, are you willing to copy the discs to NAS, or will you want to drop a disc into a tray and hit the PLAY button?
Once you know which recording formats must be supported, then you can decide on a compatible player. For example:
- A universal disc player (i.e., an appliance that plays discs including Ultra HD Blu-ray, Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, SACD, DVD-Audio, DVD, CD, etc.), or
- “CD only” player, and/or
- Network streamer that can play hi-res files from NAS (e.g., downloaded hi-res files), and play Spotify Premium, Tidal HiFi, Qobuz, etc.
Are you keeping your R-115 SW subwoofer? If so, you will want a player, or pre-amp, or integrated amp that has a configurable subwoofer crossover, and analog line-level RCA subwoofer output.
Once you’ve selected a player, then you can decide on an amp that is a good match for the player. For example, does the player have good quality built-in DACs? An external (i.e., outboard) DAC with coax and TOSLINK interfaces probably can’t play the SACD layer of a hybrid SACD disc, and might not be able to play uncompromised audio quality from a Pure Audio Blu-ray discs without downgrading the audio bit rate – assuming that you’re playing directly from the disc. (OTOH, if you first copy such discs to NAS, you might be able to play all formats from the NAS across ethernet to a DAC – however I have no experience with this type of implementation.)
Does the player have built-in volume control, in which case you might be able to connect it directly to a power amp?
What interfaces does the player provide (e.g., analog, HDMI, TOSLINK, coax, etc.)?
A player whose built-in DACs are available to other sources (e.g., equipped with a TOSLINK and/or coax and/or HDMI input) can be useful. (For example, for one of my hi-fi systems, I connect my HDTV via TOSLINK to an input on my Oppo UDP-205 universal player, so that I can play the audio from TV programs on my hi-fi system. In another system, I connect a Chromecast Audio via TOSLINK to an input on my Oppo UDP-205 universal player in order to play internet radio such as kusc.org.)
As I’ve mentioned before, I suggest that you consider a solution that includes tone controls, so that you can fine-tune your Forte III to your room, and your preferences. (I.e., “salt and pepper to taste” – in other words, adjust bass and treble to suit your preferences.)
If an amp that you’re interested in doesn’t have tone controls, can you buy a Schiit Loki in India? (Many modern tube integrated amps such as Primaluna, Cary Audio, Line Magnetic, Rogue Audio, and Quicksilver don’t have tone controls. I have no experience with modern tube amps – rather, my experience is with made-in-the-USA vintage tube amps.) I recently obtained a Schiit Loki in order to tame high frequencies when driving my Klipsch Palladium via my Oppo UDP-205 directly connected to my McIntosh MC240 power amp (i.e., no preamp). The Loki was MUCH less expensive than buying a McIntosh preamp (just to get a treble control). I like the fact that the Loki does not digitize the audio.
Which brands of players and amps have service centers in Chandigarh? Are there technicians in Chandigarh who can work on tube amps? I think serviceability should be a consideration when choosing electronics.
I’m a fan of vintage tube amps, however, to be honest they can require maintenance. A modern tube amp would probably only need tubes replaced periodically (perhaps every few years), which the consumer can do. A solid-state amp will likely require the least maintenance.
If you want a tube amp, a few designs can accommodate several different output tubes, e.g., EL34, KT88, and 6L6GC. Each different output tube would provide different sound quality, and provide you the opportunity to “tube roll” in order to optimize the audio quality to suit your taste.
Perhaps if you provide more information about the following, forum members might be able to offer specific advice:
- What recording formats are you interested in supporting?
- What types of players are you considering (e.g., universal disc player, or “CD only” player, or network streamer, etc.)?
- What players and amps are sold and serviced in India?
You’ve obviously given this careful thought. I’ll be interested in learning from your experience.
I hope that your new Forte III arrive safely from Hope, Arkansas, USA. I’m looking forward to pictures of your Forte III when you have them installed.
Please keep us posted.
Robert
Hi @robert_kc
Your suggestions are very useful not only to me but anyone who is watching this thread and forum. I can see from your post that you have replied very patiently considering almost all the aspects on setting up a system from scratch. I will try to answer to your questions in the same order.
First of all why I didn't like the Denon x4500H and RP-8000F. The biggest mistake on my part was not buying a stereo amplifier but an AVR. Bigger than this was to rely just on streaming and not HD quality music. I was expecting wonders by investing considerable amount of money and though every track I throw at the system would sound amazing that was a big mistake. I have realized now that source has a very important role to produce quality sound and not all the recordings are as good as others. Another thing was the lean and harsh sound that I didn't like either by design of RP-8000F and pairing with Denon. I have not much control over the space I have, since I do not own the house so room treatment is not an option for now. So I have limited to no options to try different placements and acoustic treatment to the room.
Now coming on to what's in my mind. I want to move away from online sources, but since I have no CD/Vinyl collection as of now and after spending $6K on the Fortes, I want to start with bare minimum number of equipment. This doesn't mean that I am compromising on quality of equipment but just want to buy stuff as and when my budget allows.
IMO, I can get going with an external DAC and Pre/Power or Integrated for now. I am hoping to plug in my Laptop to DAC for streaming,FLAC and even use the Laptop drive to play discs. I know thats not ideal but atleast I'll have soemthing to play.
I don't think I'll be ever interested in video formats, but I will still be interested to buy a universal disc player soon. I do not want to close the doors as well. I will be building my collection and will gradually stop relying on online streaming and may also add a turntable when things get settled.
I want to see if I would need a subwoofer with Fortes or not so I am looking for an amp that supports adding a sub.
As you have mentioned that an external DAC woudn't be able to play SACD hybrid layer (do not know what that is) as nicely as inbuilt dac of the player, this is very strange to me. What is normaly said is that an external dac is better than the internal one becuase of being a dedicated piece of equipment. Some more light on this may be? I would still prefer a pre amp instead of feed the player directly in to the power amp. I think as per my budget I would settle with an integrated amp for now. IMO, if I have just one DAC is the whole system, that feeds the pre amp or integrated amp, then I have the same sound signature from all the sources be it streaming/cd/FALC etc. Please correct me if I am wrong. I think there are still lots of things not clear to me and I might be assuming in my mind.
So far I have seen only Luxamn amps that have tone controls. Both Solid state and tubes. No experience with Luxman and also avaialbe only on order. Schiit is avaialbe in India and people have good review about Schiit.
Service is a very important factor when spending a huge money, sadly all the hifi stuff sold in India are through distributors only. They just import and sell at their own prices. Prices are much higher in India as compared to other parts of the world. Only some entry level brands might have their service centers here like Denon/Yamaha/Pionner etc. This is a big issue here. Even claiming warranty from the distributor is not an easy thing.
Coming on to tubes vs solid state, so far every one has suggested to pair tube amps with Klipsch so that they could sound bit mellwoer and sweet rather than just in your face. Chandigarh is a very small city for hifi stuff. No chance of getting any kind of service avaialble locally or even demo. Honestly I am bit reluctant to go with tubes becuse of the known fact that the tube amps are delicate than the solid state ones. Without comparing tubes and solid state side by side I do not want to invest. Ever since I invested in my previous stuff, I lost my peace over dissatisfaction, this I want to avoid at any cost now. I just want to be at peace for some years with minimum to no maintenace of the system. But if tubes are the answer then I will go with tube amps.
Hope it will help all the people in suggesting the right things to me.
Thanks all for your advice.
Regards
Vivek
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4 minutes ago, tipatina said:
Are kits an option for you?
I would like to go with branded ones. Not much into DIY.
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Hi
I have upgraded from RP -8000F to Frote III. I was using Denon x4500H, not any more with me. Now I am looking for a good set of Pre/Power or Integrated amp for the Fortes. There could be no other better place than this great forum to ask for. Kindly help me specially Forte users what kind of amp would be best to produce finer details even at whispering volume levels and with utmost clarity and bit warm. Highly confused between tubes and solid state. I mostly listen to Jazz, Country, Classics like John Denver, Kenny Rogers, Michael Bolton, Eagles, U2, Frank Sinatra lot more from 50s to 60s to 70s music.
Thanks a lot.
Vivek
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On 10/2/2019 at 4:23 AM, Raygun said:
CONGRATS!!!!
I ordered mine over a week ago, they came in today. My friend, they are well worth the wait. I am absolutely LOVING the Forte III's. I mean...I dont' understand how they can sound this good out of the box. I can only imagine they will get that much better.
People said I would love these, but the excitement these are giving me is so much more than that. Truly wonderful speakers.
Many Congrats. What kind of amp you are using? I still need to decide on the electronics.
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Little update after a while. Today I ordered Forte III in walnut finish. Will take 2 months to arrive from US to India. Long wait 😟
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On 9/5/2019 at 3:01 AM, dtel said:
I wanted the distressed ok as well, the only problem I had at the time was the few pictures I had of them looked really grey looking so we went with Walnut. Later after seeing the Oak better it looked better than the original pictures I had seen. But we are happy with the choice and I really like the sound more than the 1 and 2 versions.
This is a pic of the Walnut, kind of odd angle because I am holding the curtain open to let in light leaning against the wall and using a Ipad so not a great pic.
But you can see the color of the wood. The bass bins they are sitting on is a light version or Red Oak wood with Red Oak stain.
That looks nice. Whats that big horn?
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On 9/5/2019 at 2:44 AM, robert_kc said:
Hello Vivek,
I suggest that you shop for recordings before you shop for equipment. That way you will know which recording formats your equipment must support. (Sorry if I’m beating this issue to death. It’s not my intent to sound preachy. This might sound like a simple concept, however I think some people skip the important first step: the music. I’m mystified when some hi-fi hobbyists spend a lot of time and money on equipment, and don’t consider modern recording formats.)
This afternoon I watched/listened to Sibelius Symphony 4 via this Blu-ray audio/video disc, and the experience was fabulous via my state-of-the-art Oppo UDP-205 universal player, vintage tube amps, Klipsch RF-7II for left, center, and right, a single RF-7 rear speaker, and two powered subwoofers. (This afternoon I listened via two stereo amps equipped with 6L6GC: a Scott 296 driving the main left & right speakers, and an Inspire Fire Bottle single-ended amp driving the center and single rear speaker.) Plasma HDTV.
Yesterday I ordered the following Blu-ray audio/video discs from Amazon.com:
For classical music, Blu-ray is my favorite format, and I own a number of wonderful Blu-ray recordings. Blu-ray box sets (e.g., all symphonies by a composer) are a good value.
Here’s a relevant post regarding classical Blu-ray recordings:
SACD is my second choice. I own many classical SACDs.
Based on the playlist you posted, I understand that these recordings may not be of interest to you. I just want to make the point that recording technology has come a long way since the CD was introduced to the marketplace more than 30 years ago – i.e., high-definition video, surround-sound, and hi-res audio.
I have no experience with the music you like. Looking at your play list, I did a few quick searches and found the following Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, DVD, SACD, and hi-res downloads (24bit/96kHz or 24bit/192kHz). These are just a few examples that I found in a few minutes by searching amazon.com and hdtracks.com. I know nothing about the following recordings. I’m not recommending these recordings – this music is not my cup of tea. Moreover, I know nothing about the audio quality of these recordings – garbage-in/garbage-out – these recordings may or may not have high quality audio based on how the recording was originally captured, and how it was mastered. Rather, my point is that the relevance of various recording formats other than CD depends on music genre – and when the recording was made. (Candidly, for some genres, CD is the best audio quality that’s available.)
Billy Joel: Live at Shea Stadium
Blu-ray
Billy Joel - Live From the River of Dreams
DVD
Billy Joel | The Stranger
SACD
Billy Joel | Glass Houses
SACD
Billy Joel: 52nd Street 40th Anniversary (Hybrid-SACD) Import HIRES 96kHz/24bit Deluxe Edition Remastered Special Packaging 2018 Release Date 11/2/18
The Essential Billy Joel
24bit/96kHz FLAC download (HDTracks.com)
Lionel Ritchie | Just for You
SACD
Lionel Ritchie
(There are at least 6 albums on HDTracks in 24bit/96kHz or 24bit/192kHz)
Legend: The Best Of Bob Marley And The Wailers
Pure Audio Blu-ray
Bob Marley & The Wailers: Exodus - Live at the Rainbow
DVD
Bob Marley & the Wailers
(There are several hi-res downloads available from HDTracks.)
Weekend On The Rocks [live CD & DVD] by Dave Matthews (2005-11-29)
DVD
Michael Bolton: Live at the Royal Albert Hall
Blu-ray
Michael Bolton - My Secret Passion / Donizetti, Puccini, Massenet, Verdi
DVD
Again, these are just a few examples that I found in a few minutes by searching amazon.com and hdtracks.com.
The issue is whether you want to invest in equipment that will play recordings such as these. How important is audio quality vs. convenience? What sources for recordings are available to you in India? Amazon.com? HDTracks.com?
$64k question: For the music that you like, are there enough recordings in hi-res audio formats, and audio/video formats to justify investing in a compatible player? Perhaps you might start a thread asking for recommendations for Blu-ray, SACD, and hi-res downloads for the music you like.
If you’re interested in audio/video recordings, you’ll need a universal disc player. (IME, the classical audio/video recordings I like are not available via streaming.) OTOH, if you’re not interested in video, and the music you like is available as a hi-res (or at least 16bit/44.1kHz) download (vs. SACD or Pure Audio Blu-ray disc), you may not need a disc player – you might be satisfied with a “network player” or “music streamer” that plays hi-res files from local NAS, plus Spotify Premium.
P.S. Forte III in Distressed Oak looks great.
P.P.S. I have no experience with Line Magnetic tube amps. They look very interesting. FWIW, I generally prefer 6L6GC and EL34 – but everyone has different tastes - and the important issue is synergy between amp and speakers.
Hi @robert_kc
Thanks for looking these albums. I guess I will stick to audio only music and have no plans to go for HT system and will be using 2 channel rig only. I do not have much space to scatter around many speakers. Suddenly I have a liking for Special edition due to its salt and pepper grill 🙂
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1 hour ago, ILI said:
I just want to point out that this also sounds amazing on my poor man rp160ms!!!!!
I see that you are from Belgium, I visit Leuven at least once a year.
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1 hour ago, ILI said:
I just want to point out that this also sounds amazing on my poor man rp160ms!!!!!
I want every track to play like this 🙂 which I know is dreaming too much
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12 minutes ago, mr clean said:
Check out Line Magnetic gear. Made in China but reviews are very positive. Very vintage looking!
I have a friend far away though he is using LM so i can have reviews 😀. Thanks for suggesting.
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33 minutes ago, glens said:
I wanted the oak set as well. Alas, the missus preferred the walnut and since she was accommodating me I thought I'd return the favor. I've just seen and smelled the insides of black walnut trees a bit too much... Mostly, though, it was those light grilles I was wanting - not bad enough.
I think the cherry's too light. The black is too dark, unless it's the "special" ebony version with that killer wired grille cloth.
I guess the order of choice for me would be:
- a tie between the oak and ebony. At least close to 50-50.
- walnut
- anything else: it doesn't matter - they still sound the same.
Loving and accommodating husband you are so is your wife who loves Klipsch too. It's not the case with me. Me and my son are the ones in love with this sort of hobbies.
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18 minutes ago, glens said:
I wanted the oak set as well. Alas, the missus preferred the walnut and since she was accommodating me I thought I'd return the favor. I've just seen and smelled the insides of black walnut trees a bit too much... Mostly, though, it was those light grilles I was wanting - not bad enough.
I think the cherry's too light. The black is too dark, unless it's the "special" ebony version with that killer wired grille cloth.
I guess the order of choice for me would be:
- a tie between the oak and ebony. At least close to 50-50.
- walnut
- anything else: it doesn't matter - they still sound the same.
True the special edition grill looks metallic in pics 😀 same here the reason for Oak finish is grill color. That matches with my couches too 😀
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20 minutes ago, glens said:
I had rather thought you were leaning that way at any rate. I don't want to be the one who talked you into something you end up not liking. They are a lot of money (though not very different in price than the RFs?). But I'll happily take credit if you get the Fortes and love them!
The little NAD unit I have works very well. I could wish it had tone controls and pre-amp out, maybe also power amp in and/or a processor loop. For how I use it, it's really everything I need though. I can crank it up louder than is prudent with no obvious signs of strain and after an entire double album it's not hardly warm to the touch. And there are no vents or external heat-sinks.
I've been looking at the Cocktail Audio X35 with some interest but am wary of the amplifier. There really aren't any reviews I can judge based on past reviews of equipment I'm familiar with. I believe NAD's class D implementations are solid, and some others are as well. But I've been around long enough to encounter worse and better implementations of the same thing otherwise.
NAD's M10 would be nice to have but it represents a fair bit more luxury than I could justify.
Good luck. Keep the thread updated as you progress.
Hi @glens
You are right Fortes are my hidden love and if I am going to buy Klipsch again it will be Forte 😀.
I checked the specs of Nad C 388 it's all in one kinda amp. I think not bad. But my wish is to go separates as much as my budget allows be it incremental addition.
Btw I want to pick Oak finish of Forte with Lambs wool grill bit different from traditional black grill. Any thoughts on the finishes available?
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3 hours ago, glens said:
Well, I'm of the opinion that they're well-suited to everything. Though I've not subjected them to hip-hop, rap, stuff like that.
First I replaced a ~40 years old amp with a NAD C338, then a few months later got the Fortes. I had been using some old JBL bookshelf speakers, equipment resurrected from little to no use for ~10 years.
I picked the amp up as factory refurbished with full warranty for ~$500. I'm not going to tell you how much I gave for the new speakers other than to say I did really well.
Thats great. I have tough time ahead to match the right set of equipment with Forte then.
Luxman Solid State or Vacuum Tubes Amplifier
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
I would love to buy McIntosh any day blindly. I think the price is India is on higher side compared to Luxman. I am getting 509X for about $8800. No idea about MA7200. I just love the blue Vu meters