ka7niq

Well Colin, speaker choice is a very personal choice. I will tell you right up front that I not only own Klipschorns, but I really dont care for them! The Klipschorns, and the Belle's and LaScala's I have owned all have a resonant, woody coloration that I just cant live with! My Klipschorns are for sale. The Forte;s are staying until I find some Cornwall 2's. Yes, I do appreciate what they do, but in my room they dont image. They are 21 feet apart, I am 16 feet away. And, because of 65 inch widescreen, I cant use a center. Also, in defense of the Klipschorns, I am unable to get a good seal because of vertical molding in my corners. Bottom line, they aint gonna work here ... sigh!

Great Idea! Be SURE and allow some extra cable for when you increase antenna height ? I bet just a splitter will make you adequate for Tv AND FM too. But, be honest, if you are having ANY TV reception problems, then just go get an amp from the git go. If not, just split and enjoy!

How right you are DJK! My son, who is 24, owns my old B&W Matrix 801's series 2's. He also has the Krell bass alignment filter for them.' It extends response real low. Most of the time, he just laughs at whatever new speakers I have "passing through". He wasnt crazy about the Klipschorns, and heard the woody coloration right away. He did like some things about them though. When he came over, and heard the Forte's today, he listened for about an hour. Actually going out to his car, and bringing in his own CD's. He said "Dad, these are the best speakers that I have heard over here since you gave me the 801's" He thinks they need a subwoofer, but he really liked them. Regarding Julian Hirsch, he was a strange cat. I talked to him on the air several times, he was a Ham, like me. He was really into tone controls, always used them too. So, he felt that sonic differences between 2 different amps listened to in their flat position were un important, since he could "correct" these "insignificant" differences. He seldom raved about speakers, but when he did, like the Forte's and the Celestion SL600's, they usually were special speakers. Unfortunately, for me, I never saw the Forte review in Stereo Review. In the mid 80's, I had more money then sense, and I was an audio snob. If it wasnt British, I didnt want it. Boy, did I ever miss the boat!

Well, I want to thank you ever so much for turning me on to the Forte's. I placed the Klipschorns for sale. My corners are too wide apart for my listening position, and the Klipschorns were not imaging like I wanted. And, quite honestly, I think the Forte is a better soub nding speaker then the KHorns I have. They image well, and are free of that woody coloration. They are just a bit bright, but not hard. I just love them. I am still looking for Cornwall 2's, but until then, I can live happily with the Forte;s. Now, for amps, I havent tried my Moscode 600 yet because I lost my Tube Preamp remote! I have one coming, and I want to try the Moscode. Because of the Huge Impedance swings, I am not so sure of going all tube ? What amps do you suggest ? I was thinking maybe a Carver if the Moscode dont work ? Do you think Tubes are really the way to go on Forte with the wild swings ? How about Rope Caulk ? I did like you said with a piece of foam on the back already. And, I was thinking about perhaps some better caps ? II dont think I will be going to aftermarket crossovers with these, just better parts. Right now, I have an Onkyo digital receiver running them. I had a Indoor TV antenna laying around that I bought from Circuit City. I forgot to take it back. They said if I bought something else, it was ok, so I bought the Onkyo. I plan to return it, Its ok, but sounds a lot like the Panasonic Digital, rather "mechanical". I havent tried the Teac Tri Path amp yet, but I think it may be better ? Its a tri path amp, and maybe you know, or can find out, what chipset Onkyo uses ? When you were selling Forte's, what amps did you have luck with ? If I could "improve" on the Forte's, it would be to "lay em back" just a tad. My thinking is that possibly a Carver might just do this ? I remember Bob saying something about "guidry dip" ? whatever that is ? Have you ever tried a Carver ?

Julian DID admit that he DID hear differences in Power Amps! However, he did not find these to be signifigant! Julian used tone controls shamelessy, and simply compensated for different amp's "sound" by adjusting the tone controls! I knew this before he admitted publicly that he did hear differences in amps! Julian Hirsch was a Ham, and I had spoken to him several times on the air Ka7niq

I will see if I can find it " Did someone say OTL ???

I was just wondering if anyone knows off hand what the Impedance curve of original Forte's looks like ? Are they like KHorns that rise to 30 ohms in the midrange ? I have a tube amp in mind, but it only has 4 or 8 ohm taps, no 16's. It is a 6V6 amp, and I can buy it right.

You wrote """Is there anyone who does NOT hate Spurrier?""" I HATE Steve Spurrier ! He is one arrogant SOB. I am glad he left Florida, and was glad to see him fail at Washington too. I would gladly give a year of my life to cold cock his arrogant jaw just one time. The Tennessee coach Fulmer, is a class act, as is our new Florida coach Urban Meyer. Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno, class acts too!

Well, Unfortunately many Video Hi Def antennas are UHF antennas, and FM is VHF. However, If it is truly a VHF - UHF TV antenna, then it will work ok for FM. This is because the FM band I believe lies between TV channels 7 - 8 Please be aware that when you split the signal, there will be some loss. This loss may not be significant enough for visible degradation of your video signal. But, you will have to try it and see ? I would first split the signal using a splitter, and give both a try ? If it works, leave it alone, and enjoy. IF not, then take DJK's excellent advice and get a small masthead signal amplifier, and hook it before the splitter. This will more then make up for the lost gain. I would just get the lowest gain one they have, it will be the least expensive too. If you have too much gain, you can easily freak your AGC circuitry out, and cause unexpected problem that can drive you nuts! The splitter will only cause a 3 db loss, so if you get say a 10 db amplifier, you will still be 7 db ahead of the game. You also might think about an increase in height. At VHF, even an increase of only 5 feet can open up a whole new world of FM stations to you. Us Ham Radio operators have a "rule" for antenna's. If it didnt blow down within a year, it wasn't big or high enough, LOL Chris

I had the opportunity to Meet PWK when I was young, at the Detroit Audio Show. He was wearing a bullshit button around. I remember him being a nice person, who seemed interested in a kid who was an audio newbie, truly a nice man.

Djk, who has a good grip on Klipsch sound, being a former dealer, recommends the original Forte and the Cornwall 2's. So, if i were going to make a move, and some Corn 2's came up for trade for my Klipschorns, I would first query DJK for the advantages/disadvantages of a Corn 2 over the original Forte. Honestly, I wouldnt make a Klipsch move w/o getting DJK's considerable knowledge first. Obviously, he hears like I do, and thats VERY important to me. Not everyone hears alike, I found that out the hard way! For instance, i think LaScala's and Belle's are among the worst speakers i have ever heard, but some love them ?? Some people hate CF 4's, but not me. But, I would take a Forte over any CF 4 I have ever owned, and I have owned a 3 versions. Sorry Roy Delgado, I hate to "abandon" you, but the Forte's are a better speaker, in my opinion. To be "successful" in Audio, I have found that you ned to run with people that hear as you do. I had a guy reccommend a really bright, super detailed cap. I hated it, but he listened for detail. I listen for musical timbre, big difference.

Thanks for the reply Number 9, Number 9, Number 9 Paul IS Dead, LOL Yes, the Forte's are an amazing speaker, and god help any Audiofool unfortunate to listen to them, then go back home, LOL My 2 friends have Vandersteen 5A's, and one has VMPS RM 40's. Wait till they hear these! I have heard all 3 of their systems, and I dont feel slighted, in the least! The little Klipsch Forte;s EAT their lunch. make no mistake, the Forte is every bit a true audiophile speaker. Whatever Klipsch engineer designed them, they need to keep, or find and re hire! They are, by far, the best Klipsch speaker I have ever heard, and that include Klipschorns, La Scala's, belle's, and CF 4 and CF 3. As a matter of fact, they are among the best speakers i have ever heard, period! DJK, who turned me on to them, also suggested Cornwall 2's. I just cant imagine a better sound, but if he says so, I will get them. I have plenty of room, and the Little Forte's seem lost in this large room! Tell me more on these Mundorf caps ? Where did you get them ? Did they mellow the sound, just a tad ? I dont want to go brighter, just perhaps a bit cleaner, w/o losing detail ?

I have had great success, especially with Tube amps, replacing caps with old pcb style caps! remember, i am a Ham! I have access to old, wonderful parts cheap! I have a network of old, retired Ham's who have little better to do than sift through tons of Electronic "surplus" for a younger, fellow Ham who "needs" something! I get NOS tubes at prices that will shock the unprepared. To a Ham, a tube is a tube. I have bought pinched waist Nos tubes for 3 bucks each! Because, when a Ham sells to a fellow Ham, he knows that a tube is a tube. The minute a Ham finds out that you are an Audiofool, the price goes way up, LOL I guess I like to be different Dean ? I get off on listening to Forte's with caps no one else has, LOL I think thats the fun of this hobby. BTW, I REALLY, REALLY like the Forte;s! DJK reccommended them, and the Cornwall 2's. He has become my "guru" ! I am in total awe of Dennis! He has an amazing knowledge of Horns, etc. And, it seems like he and I hear alike too ? I am forever grateful for him turning me on to the original Forte's. I like them Much, Much better then the Klipschorns. Not even close, in my book. They are free of that woody sound, and they also just plain sound better to me. They are awesome on female voice, awesome. Jewell's voice has inflections in it I have never heard before. I just LOVE them. If I could ever meet DJK, i would shake his hand profusely. He has brought Music back into my home. The forte;s, in my room, image like no tomorrow too. The bass is wonderful, pressurizing even my kinda big room. I do plan on a subwoofer though, but of course this is dependant on me possibly getting DJK's other reccommendation, the Cornwall 2's I need to pick his brain some more on the advantages, and disadvantages, of a Corn 2 over a Forte. I may just stay with the Old Forte;s ?? No disrespect to you, Al, Wil, or anyone intended, but DJK is the "boss" right now in my mind. And that aint butt kissing either. He, and I "got into" it on another board once. He suggested that I listen to people that know more then me when I got "full of myself" as I sometimes do! He was just trying to share his considerable knowledge with me. Sometimes, my ego can get so big it needs it's own Zip Code, LOL I wont repeat the same mistake. So, DJK, if you are reading this, thank you man for bringing music back into my home. The Forte is by FAR the best speaker by Klipsch I have ever heard. And, that Includes the CF 4 too! I have owned Klipschorns, La Scala's, Belle's, CF 4, and CF 3's. I have heard nothing in the Klipsch lineup that can even approach the performance of these Forte's. As a matter of fact, nothing in recent memory can touch them either. Not the 801's, Infinity Preludes, Infinity IL 40's, Eminent Technology LFT 8A's, Magnepan MG3A's, or anything else that has been in my room in the past 2 years can touch these things! To say I am thrilled is putting it mildly. The only speaker that comes close is my Huge Von Schweikert Vortex Screens, and in a different way. The Forte;s sound more "Electrostatic" like, way more detailed, and alive. Both speaker image well. The Von Schweikerts have a more "vandersteen" like sound, more laid back and "audiofool" like. I enjoy them too, in a different way. They cost 4 grand! The Forte's have won me over, and I am sure that once I find the best amp/pre combo, and do some minor mods, that any audiofool who comes over my house will freak. They sound THAT good over here. Of shoot, football in half an hour. Lets see how Forte;s sound on broken bones, LOL! Thanks for the parts list Dean ! Chris

Thanks Dean! Any idea where to get the values from ? I have the original Forte's I like to go to hamfests after weird, obscure caps and try em. You know, the kind with PCB's in them ? What do you think about caulking the horns ?

dont get me wrong, I love them. But I guess something compells me to change caps, re solder, better inductors, etc ? Plus, some swear by rope caulk. It didnt work on the Plastic Tractrix CF 4 horns, but are these metal horns in these original Forte's ? If so, perhaps the caulk will work ? I could live with these as is, but always looking for improvements/ I havent got my front end going on these, just using an Onkyo digital amp. I need to get the tubes on em! Yes, they are just a bit bright, but not bright and hard. Big difference.

My Room prohibited my Klipschorns from working out, so I am listening to original Forte's. I like them a lot, but would like to improve them. I need a crossover schematic, and advice to rope caulk em, or not ? I would appreciate any other advice on them ? I think the crossovers are pretty good, but perhaps would benefit from better parts ? A very impressive speaker, I must say! Just a bit bright, but not hard and screechy, and images very well. Its punchy, and has pretty deep bass too. Very, very impressive, I must say. Hopefully, i will find someone to trade in some Cornwall 2's for my Klipschorns that are posted for sale, so I dont want to go to aftermarket crossovers, until i figure out what Klipsch is going to stay. I really dont want to like these little speakers as much as I do, they are so small. They look lost in my room! But, they are winning me over with their big sound. I just like them. I am currently using an Onkyo Digital amp on them, and I still have the little TEAC digital amp to try too. I bet with some tubes, they would really sing ? If I can find the remote, I can hook up my tube pre amp, and my Moscode 600, and a Lite Dac 72 tube dac. Perhaps the big Moscode 600 will be overkill ? DJK was right about these, they are truly an excellent speaker!

My Digital camera grew legs! I went Pawnshopping for another, but there will be no disappointments! There is a pair closing on Ebay for over two grand, and they are beat up compared to mine!

Unfortunately, there is nothing the ALK, or any other crossovers can do for me. My problem is the speakers are too wide apart, and my corners do not allow a seal! They will never work here, so I have said "Goodbye" I am enjoying the little Klipsch Forte's right now, until I find a set of Cornwall 2's.

I have an almost mint set of 80's Klipschorns I want to sell, or trade. They are completely stock, except for both new tweeter diapraghms that were professionally just replaced by The Speaker Exchange. The diapraghms used were OEM , not aftermarket, made by Electro Voice. They are Walnut with black grille's. In beautiful condition too! Unfortunately, my corners are wider then where I sit, causing imaging problems. Plus, my corners have a vertical molding in them, making a tight fit impossible. I would consider partial trades of Cornwall 2's or CF 4;s I will also consider trades plus cash of tube amps, pre amps, etc ? I am asking 2,500 for them on Audiogon. My phone is 813 655 8777 Chris

That would work ! I have some old Forte's here right now, and they are little songbirds, imaging all over the place! I would really like some Cornwall 2's ! Or some old Cf 4;s too ? I think I am going to do that!

I have decided to sell them Sal ! I will place them On Audiogon, and perhaps EBay ? I have some physcial problem with them, one being they are wider apart then how far away I am, and my corners have molding right down the center of the corner making a seal impsossible. Hey, I gave em a try, now its time to send them on their way! There arent classifieds on this forum, are there ?

Thanks for your response. I have considered getting a digital electronic crossover for the Klipschorns,, but I am scared of noise! Here is my plan, at this moment. I am going to try digital EQ on them, I was told, and seen PWK demo Klipschorns at the Detroit Audio Show at Cobo Hall back years ago. If I remember, he was using McIntosh amp/preamp with equalizer. Perhaps he really intended for his speakers to use EQ ? This is my next move, but I really hear this woody sound, and I dont like it. I am not sure, at this point, that I am going to stay with the Klipschorns. Some Forte 's , the originals just arrived, and I wanna hear them too, although they are dinky little things. Plus, i miss the 3 dimensional imaging of the CF 4's. I honestly would have to say, at this stage of the game, I am not absolutely blown away with the K's. I like their liveliness, and fast bass, and efficiency, and low distortion. Lets see what happens when i hit em with EQ ?

Ok, then thats what i need to do. I will contact you off the board. TNX Ka7niq

Could someone please tell me the known sonic traits of the Various Crossovers used in the k Horns ? I have AK 2's, and I am thoroughly confused. I know I have the worst possible crossovers, and feel like a second class citizen, but I dont know what way to go ? If I go to an AK 3, what will happen ? Brighter, more foreward, etc ? Or, if I drop "down" to a simple type A and please PWK and Dr Edgar, what type of sound do I get ? I am using, and liking, so far,a TEAC TRI Path digital amp, and not the one everyone uses either. Its 25 wpc, and I cant ever see me using really high power and EQ, etc. My main objections to the Klipschorns sound is a woody resonant coloration that colors some male, and even some female voices. The Belle Klipsch's I owned in early 80's had this same wooden sound, and I couldnt tolerate it. I found La Scala's way too foreward and screechy. Will someone please tell me what sound these stock Klipsch crossovers have so I can see what way to go ?

Thanks Al ! i am pretty well sold on your wooden horns for the future, and perhaps your crossovers too. I really MUST discipline myself, and sell off some stuff, hi hi! I wass told that the quickest, cheapest way to improve my horns was to upgrade AK 2 to AK 3 ... Do you agree ? Where might one find the parts from ? I can source caps, but I am unfamiliar with Autoformers. Are you aware of any detailed, step by step instructions w.part sources for this change ? What will the net result of all this be ? What is the change, if any in the sound ? Wouldnt the less capacitance on the woofer allow it to play up higher, and further muddy up the sound ? This "woody" resonant sound is my cheif complaint in my horns now that the TEAC digital amp has "tamed" the harshness and spittyness. Or, is it the low end of the squaker that is the culprit, and one needs the woofer to play higher up to cover this coloration ?