ummagumma-89
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Posts posted by ummagumma-89
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On 1/10/2022 at 11:24 PM, Pete Fowler said:
Hi Jd,
Yes, dropped the cap and shrunk the inductor because despite the name the K53's '700' horn doesn't go anywhere near 700Hz. It's more like an 850Hz horn. So I ended up with a 1.2mH inductor crossing at 925Hz which blends really well with the K53K. I also had to add a zobel network for the woofer because the big voice coil has a ton of inductance and the rising impedance messed with the xover response. I was getting bleed through into the 4kHz range without it. Pretty interesting stuff once I figured out what was going on. 🙂 The final tweak was to extend the port length to 6" which is a nice compromise between extended low bass and a slight loss of detail in the 80-120Hz range. To my ears an acoustic bass sounds still sounds tight and right but you can really hear/feel the bottom end now.
All in all a worthwhile upgrade.
Cheers,
Pete
Hey Pete, would love to chat for a few minutes about your results. I'm back at the drawing board again after a few months of listening. I am convinced on swapping my daytons for the deltas, but you have peaked my interest once again.
I wanted to know about your terminal cup in the back in relation to your port. The flared ports I ordered ended up extending me into the terminal cup AND they stuck out. I gave up and removed the backs!!!
My cabs are beat anyway...
So far I have 2 boards of MDF (not quite as thick as originals)ports and deciding on terminal cups. Im interested in your cap modification. You and I are the only ones I think who went with the H2's (atleast into some detail with how to go about it).
Since my last post, I've also bought a l-pad for the squawker, which is the only thing besides the H2 network that is original.
Message me if you have 20 minutes to talk
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Yes, my H2's have them too, but not the Tangents. I just thought it was strange
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Can confirm one of the heresy IIs i just bought have that exact foam grey sheet. The other speaker had a different woofer and the last guy had thrown it out. When I worked on the original speaker, as soon as I touched the foam, it began to deteriorate and fall apart.
Also have tangent 500s and they have the same crossover network (square heresy 2 rectangular plate) and speakers as the HII. The xover literally says heresy 2 on them.
Anyway, i got these t500s for a steal and from what I could see have never been opened up.
Maybe someone can confirm this,
No speaker gasket foam whatsoever between woofers/tweeters and wood itself, 2 of THE EXACT sheets of foam loosely placed on the left and right walls of the cab.
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Very happy with the results! Heresy II's ported with the Dayton 310-8's, DE-120 tweeters, stock mids and stock network with fresh sonicaps
The insulation idea was an experiment, but am liking the results. I know there will be plenty who will frown on that idea, but its what I had on hand. Cheap egg style foam was used for the upper chamber.
4x4 port was absolutely the right way to go, positioning is very interesting to figure out to say the least.
Soooo worth it. I've returned the bass and treble settings on amp and eq to flat. Where you are seated and the positioning of the speakers are critical, although I have had them positioned where no matter where you sit or stand the bass was improved BY FAR. Still tinkering
Had to make my own grills and get badges. They won't win any prizes for looks, but they kick *** and can pair with my Tangent 500's
Now I plan to move speakers around and couches to see what I get from it
Pictures
https://ibb.co/R7HNDyK
https://ibb.co/wC6JgBC
https://ibb.co/q1KvKnm
https://ibb.co/CzsFdXN
https://ibb.co/1zB45qF
https://ibb.co/F5XHC1B
https://ibb.co/CnP9503-
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EDIT: Switched to the 4x4 port. Problem solved, cleaned up the sound by a TON getting rid of the extra inch.
What an amazing mod, now the question is, tilted, flat, slightly up off the floor with some custom stands. Last night I had one on a drum stool just to see and the bass was still there. Any higher than that I lost bass. Going to try Dark side of the moon now.
Finally everyone is out of the house and I can test them.
So something I am noticing with the bass is the deep kick drum sticks out nice, but the bass guitar itself is a bit boomy, and this could be the way I dampened the cab or the port length. (Purposely listening to a modern heavy band Toska just to see)
Shortening the port to 4" like you originally recommended could fix this right. Could be a number of things, like not using eggcrate foam in the woofer area. I have cheap thin wish .com in the "upper area" and insulation in woofer area carefully placed in smaller thinner pieces on the walls and left an area open around the port.
Its deep, but I find it a little boomy. What do you guys think? Shaving off the extra inch of port? I still have 9 feet of tubing lol. I'll give it a try this week
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5 hours ago, Wirrunna said:
Why the 5" length ? I went with the 4" as Claude specified when I swapped the Dayton into my Super Heresy back on page 14 of this thread.
I was asking some people for help with port size and the company I bought them from said 4"d 5"L. His reasoning was because of the low Fs of .29
I didnt mention I was originally tuning to 39 hz and have absolutely no idea what I am doing. 😄
I know all about page 14, i've been thinking about this particular thread since I bought them. Personally if I had the money, I would want to have tried the deltas. I dont have to boost my lowest eq band nearly as much as before. Dayton 96db sensitivity and Delta 99db. Might have lined up even better.
I am extremely pleased
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10 hours ago, carlthess40 said:
Did you use this driver ?
Dayton Audio PA310-8 12" Pro Woofer
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYes. Finished the other speaker today
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Quick update, I needed woofers no matter what, took the plunge with the Dayton 310-8 12s.
No network changes, undecided if that is necessary at this point, I am a fan of an eq, the amp I am using has a "boring" bass and treble feature only. This eq only goes to 60 hz and that is the only frequency I boost slightly. Now I want an eq that goes lower as this mod has certainly at the very least got me to 50 hz maybe less (no tools to measure)
My internal dampening so far is only thin egg crate style in the "upper chamber" above the woofer and loose insulation carefully placed on the walls in the woofer area, leaving open space by the port.
I left the square speaker terminal and squeezed the port between. After fine tuning with the dremel, I have gone into the plastic part of the rear terminal slightly. There is still a small amount of cabinet wall seperating speaker terminal.
4" diameter, 5" length port.
Floors are wood in medium sized room, in corners.
Only have 1 speaker converted so far for a/b test.
Absolutely Blown Away by the difference.
For the purists, these things were no prize, mismatched woofers, 4 ohm tweeters from car speakers glued to the horns (replaced with B&C DE-120s, factory squawks), appear to be re painted black, needed to make my own speaker covers and purchased aftermarket badges.
Will have full report soon with some pictures. Absolutely incredible bass response now. Soooooo happy that I took the chance and a million thank-yous to Claude and friends for experimenting with this. BLOWN AWAY
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Just bought the Daytons. Before I return them I want you guys to check this out. I calculated the port online that I just so happen to have and it is lining up almost identical with everything the daytons have for specs. Maybe the port for the dayton woofers needs to be 3" instead of 4"? Or am I more confused than usual?
Port is 3 " diameter 4 inch long
Fs and Fb match, a lot of the data is close. Am i missing something here?
https://ibb.co/47kHV8Q
https://ibb.co/2v89Prb
https://ibb.co/L17PBWC
https://ibb.co/JpxCkbN Dayton Specs -
Absolutely Moray, I had thought of separating the woofer area from the mids and highs with a piece of foam, similar to how the heresy 2 came. I figure it would help divide up the cabinet and produce more pressure to the rad.
The best experiment I have had funny enough, was stuffing a bit of insulation behind the door and head speakers in my 95 chevy. Along with my 8 inch vented sub. It originally had polyfil and the fyl was blocking the port. I Replaced the polyfil with insulation and left space for the port, it is night and day 20 times better to my ears. Even the door speakers and head level 4x6's are absolutely amazing now. Never seen the dinky woofers move untill I glued some insulation behind the speaker magnets. They are some jvc gto 4x6's, anyways they sound great now. A great experiment to learn with.
Thanks for the screw hole trick too, The tangents are starting to get upset with me being in and out of the speaker cavitys. Great idea
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5 minutes ago, mustang_flht said:
Hi,
What if you bought a spare pair of cones, wouldn't that do your thing?
https://reconingspeakers.com/product/klipsch-k-24k-12-aftermarket-recone-kit/
seen that tonight too. I guess I need to ask them what "wet look cone with cloth surrounding" actually means.
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On 3/26/2021 at 11:51 AM, moray james said:
Remember that it is the reflex vent (or a passive radiator which amounts to the same action) which damps the woofer in the cabinet. Any additional damping material is going to be in there for other reasons such as catching upper out of band response from the woofer which you don't want singing inside of the cabinet and or leaking out through the vent (here is where a passive works in your favor as it filters out some of the out or band response through the passive cone) and last to gain some apparent cabinet volume. You also want to remember that with a reflex cabinet you must have an open volume of air (with zero damping material, this applies to reflex vents as well as passive radiators) which is free to go into resonance, this is what connects the woofer to the vent so the system can work. You can have some damping on the walls but that is only going to be there to catch and diminish some of that out of band woofer response I mentioned. I hope this helps.
Thanks moray, This was how they came from factory. improving this type of system seems complicated, only willing to experiment with dampening and where it should go.
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I did man. I STILL haven't heard from them. Klipsch took 2 months or more to get back to me on speaker grills and badges which I have found myself.
Called gentech, they gave me a email. Never heard back in a month
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Picture of the k-24-k I would like to buy
Anyone who has original k-24-k woofer for heresy II that has the greyish kevlar material, I am looking for you!
I have the Tangent-500's, yes they have k-24-k's but they ARE NOT the kevlar type, they are black paper. I've a/b'd them and the kevlar type one sounded much better.
Located in Sudbury Ontario Canada
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1 minute ago, RandyH000 said:
the K22-K24-K28 4ohms are designed specifically for the Heresy speaker , rated at 100watts ---try to locate a K24 on Ebay
The k24 is 8 ohm, we've went over this. So is the k-22
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Can someone point out the values I need to pay attention to when it comes to woofer selection?
I have a torn k-24-k that is black (not the same as what should be in there)
and original greyish kevlar k-24-k that works fine
This is a Heresy II stock networks, updates caps.
Intent was to get something better than the k-24-k, that is 8 ohms and without porting them.
Not particularly interested in old used klipsch speakers, willing to go new. (only 1 k-24-k on ebay right now and it sounds like its in tough shape)
I know about crites, gentech, k-28 4 ohm woofer...Because of covid, getting ahold of these companies has proven extremely difficult.
Bought Dayton 310-8 12" woofers and am extremely disapointed with the a/b of the good k-24-k and a dayton. Can't even hear the bass guitar at all on some recordings. Just tight kick. I am going to return them.
Anyways can someone help me understand these values in the links below and what values I should be looking for to get the k-24-k sound or better?
I know a bit about box size, and sensitivity but don't understand certain specs. Recently read a bit about inductance, and these daytons are high 1.68mH i think.
Resonent frequency in relation to box size? Its hard to wrap my head around frequency response data like 45hz-3000hz and hear significantly less bass than the old k-24-k.
Im just a kid compared to most of you and I am very new to this. Any help appreciated
k-24-k specs
Dayton Specs
https://daytonaudio.com/images/resources/295-032--dayton-audio-pa310-8-spec-sheet.pdf
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Back to the 4 ohm problem dude. The 4 ohm tweeters that were in these things when i bought them literally stopped working when i brought the new amp home. Thats how i found out they had been changed.
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Yeah. Extremely disapointed of coarse. The stock k-24 kills the dayton bass wise. The daytons are extremely tight right now, moving them a bit with my hand. Im pretty sure i lost 10 hz of bass at the very least.
Anyway, ill be on the lookout for a k-24 on ebay. The kevlar one, not the black ones. Soooo much better.
Being a musician with tons of gear, ill find use for the daytons elsewhere when the time comes. For now ill leave them in and break them in. Dont want to port the damn things.
Lesson learned
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Update if anyone cares:
Removed bracing from the T-500's, done with that rabbit hole.
NOW - After failed attempts to get ahold of klipsch, Gentech or anyone in Canada with help with some matching woofers for the Heresy 2's, I rolled the dice on the Dayton Audio 310-8's 12".
96 DB Sensitive, Stock recapped H2 crossovers: Going to install them the second I get home. To be honest I am a little nervous of what I am going to hear. The reason I heard of them was the super heresy mod where a guy was porting his H1's. Mine are sealed and there is no removable back plate like the H1 on the H2's.
Not sure if it was the right move, but only one way to find out.
Going to replace the torn one first and compare with the good stock k-24-k. Fingers crossed.
Should I keep the good k-24-k just in case? Or unload it on ebay? More decisions...
Dug up a spec sheet on multiple woofers klipsch made and the stock k-24-k had a sensitivity of 93 or 94 db. Hopefully they were the right move....
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On 3/19/2014 at 3:13 PM, beeker said:
I'll be...another pair of 3000's. The guy i traded mine too took mine all beat up and covered them in oak...they looked gorgeous and im an avid black finish collector. I truly wish id kept them now but then i was trade and swap crazy and also lost them. Every pair of klipsch iv sold iv regreted especially heresys considering new klipsch people apparently spend so so much money on them. Your the 4th person iv heard had the 3000's. Iv known of or seen i believe 6 or 7 pairs of 4000's not owning 4k's but have heard some...several 4k's have been on ebay...The 3000 seem rare. Seems all tangent thousands are pretty rare as are the hundreds...Im out of positives at the moment yet il get you some soon. Unlike the takers not giving around here lol
Do you remember if klipsch had any foam dampening in those cabs? I have the t-500s and they had 2 pieces of foam on the left and right side extending half way up the cab. Loosely inserted in there. Just curious what the 5000 has. Those are ported are they not?
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On 9/13/2016 at 8:07 PM, absolve2525 said:
Sooooo, I bought the T5000 last week.
Did you happen to notice where and what kind of dampening klipsch did in the 5000? My 500's have 2 pieces of foam on the left and right side that were loosely placed in the cab. Not glued to the wall, just thrown in basically.
I am also interested in what crossover network they use. My 500's are heresy 2 crossovers from factory. Haven't recapped them yet.
The more I read into this, the more I think experimenting with a bit of insulation or other dampening materials will NOT help the passive rad in any way. Have you done any type of dampening to them and seen results? Just curious.
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Beautiful. Yes i still am considering leaving 1 in. Havent had the time to take them out yet
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All i know is that I lost dynamics. Whatever that means to any individual opinion.
I care not what the meter says! 'Tis my ear that matters and bracing the cabinet (or taking it a step further) has diminished the sound in my opinion.
For he heck of it, was bored at work, opened up a sub I got for free (Jl-audio 83v3 with small ported box) and seen polyfil everywhere and mini bracing.
Had a bunch of insulation I got for free and re-stuffed it - leaving the port area open. For some reason the factory blocked the wave port area. The volume and tone exploded. It blew me away the difference and what an enclosure that size is capable of.
So in my uneducated opinion, this type of stuff does improve a cabinets sound under certain circumstances. Maybe I am lucky and my cab sounds good in my environment.
Losing what I hear coming out of the stock t-500 on one side vs. the braced version with the stock foam in or out is absolutely not worth it.
I answered my own question, but continue to share YOUR experiences please and thank-you
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Appreciate the data, love seeing actual proof.
However, my cabinet,atleast to my ears untreated, has no serious resonating issues. Im only running 100w to them. I think my best option is to back off. Its not like they are falling apart and the vibration is minimul. I agree though if anything I should experiment with a bit of dampening for now and if it aint broken dont fix it
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Swapping in a single Heresy II k-24-k woofer into Guitar Cab
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Anyone try this yet?
I've been thinking about it for a few months, I have a damaged k-24-k black woofer and non damaged k-24-k greyish woofer sitting in storage.
Does anyone remember seeing a post that had the woofers specifications? I assume a guitar cab setup might be pushing them a little too far...
Hughes and Kettner 2x12 with one k-24-k and one Celestion Vintage 30 (The china version) 20 Watt Tube H&K Head