Strabo

In the interests of stiring things up a bit more. [:^)] The position of the volume knob is no measurement of sonic output. And since volume controls are usually logarithmic, just past half way is usually the peak of undistorted output anyway, depending on other factors of course. I think we need to know how loud you are actually listening before making suggestions. For example, if you are only getting 80dbs peaks at half throttle then there is a problem either with the amp, pre, room size, power to the amp, blah blah blah. Also, loudness is relative. One man's loud is another man's quiet. I listen around 80dbs (peak). Rocking out to me is 90dbs for a couple of songs, maybe 95dbs for one song. Others are just getting started at 90dbs. You may be someone that likes to listen real loud, 105+. But we don't know.

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you are on your way to making the most out of your system. As mentioned, definately check out the architectural forum for more information than I ever expected to learn. You mention tv and subs, so I'm guessing that you have an SPL meter already. Not the end all be all, but find a frequency generator and make some plots of the frequency response at the listening position. Focus on the valleys in your graph and set the generator to play them while walking around the room trying to find the high points that offset your low readings and put your panels or diffusion there. These points can be located at any height along the walls, or in the middle of the room. It's not perfect but it's exponetially better than randomly throwing absorbtion around the room. For example, I have a non-standard room with odd length walls and openings into other rooms. I found that only two of my corners needed any help. Front left on the floor, and right back on the ceiling. The other corners were fine. My biggest problem was in the middle of the room, right behind the tv (between the speakers), from 4 feet high up to the ceiling. This example has no bearing on your room. It only serves as an example that you won't know it until you take some measurements. Even without measurements, definately check out the architectural forum for more information. Also keep in mind, standard fiberglass panels don't do much below 100hz, and almost nothing as you drop below 80hz.

I'd love to see an answer to this since I encountered the same issue with an amp once. In my case it wasn't a tube. Swaped tubes between amps (mono blocks) and the problem stayed with the one monoblock. I wrote it off as a cold solder joint and returned the amps within the week trial period. It would be nice to know what the real problem is/was.

If you like the Rotel two channel amp you could keep it for stereo listening and add a three or five channel amp to handle the center and surrounds. You don't need to use all of the channels in a SS amp. For example, if you purchased a five channel amp you can get by using only three of the channels for center and surround duty. This gives you the option of going 7.1 in the future, or to continue running only three channels with power to spare (power supply designed for five channels but only utilized in three). After dismantling my HT in favor of stereo, I kept the center for movies and it is the only speaker powered by a five channel amp (the amp was left over from the previous HT system). Then pick up a new or used pre/pro and maybe a tubed pre with HT pass through, as mentioned by others for the best of both worlds.

To avoid any unwanted popping in the speakers as things are power up, amps are last on and first off. My amp and pre are the only things powered down when not in use. CD and phono stay on 24/7 anyway. Or, what Mark said. []

Yes, if you use the analog outputs. When you play the disc you may have to select the SACD layer instead of the CD layer. I'm not familiar with that player but in general, players default to the hi-rez layer when available. I would expect there to be some kind of indicator on the front of the player that would tell you what is being played.

Don't worry. As mentioned in a previous thread, all SACD's will have a dedicated stereo mix. The "lingo" was confused with the introduction of DVD-A which can have multiple layers for Hi-Rez (MC and Stereo). Sometimes people refer to SACDs as having a stereo and a MC layer. They don't. SACD is all on one layer. Both the multi channel and the stereo informaion are on the same layer on an SACD and all SACDs have a stereo mix regardless if it is labeled as stereo or MC. So you don't need to worry about buying SACD's labeled MC because they will have and play stereo. The only concern could come from older Sony discs that may be SACD only, meaning no CD layer (here is where SACD can have another layer). These will also play fine in your Sony player so no worries but they will not play in a regular CD player because they do not have a separate CD layer.

I couldn't tell you without looking. I listen in stereo only too, no sub either. [8-|] In case you didn't know, all SACD's have a dedicated two channel mix.

Acousticsounds is a great place to search. I've heard good things about the Channel Classics releases. The three I have sound great. If the link works. http://store.acousticsounds.com/search_results.cfm?start=21&SearchText=Channel%20Classics&field=Label&Category=all_4 I listened to this Living Stereo release again last night and it's a good release if you are into the organ bass pedels. I don't know if I'm all that into the music yet but if you are into bass, subwoofers can be a plus with this one. Saint Saens: Symphony No.3 "Organ"/Debussy: La Mer Charles Munch CRCA 61387 SA

Then you don't need to worry about ending up like this guy. []

You are so right. By now you must know that I have been kidding around with you. No way would I give up this beauty. (and that applies to both my wife and dog!!) She (the wife) is without a doubt the best thing that has ever happened to me ever. No chance in hell of giving her away. But remember I was proposing a TRADE. Actually the 60's was all Paisley and Pot, as far as I can remember, with some poo poo thrown in. Looks like the misses found this thread. [] This thread reminds me of a quote (don't know who said it), 'behind every good looking woman is a man that is tired of putting up with her s**t.'

As has been mentioned, there are a few ways you can go. For the money, (and if I had it to do over) I'd recommend a great tubed 2 channel pre-amp with HT bypass, a great stereo amp, combined with an ordinary surround receiver for movies. This would give you the best of 2 channel with the option of surround sound for movies. Other options: 1.) Two systems (expensive) 2.) A pre/pro with a good stereo amp and a mediocre multi-channel amp (the way I went). 3.) A surround reciever with a better stereo amp (where you are) 4.) An outboard stereo amp that has volume controls so you can bypass a preamp for music (some like this, I don't). 5.) A high end receiver (ends up costing about the same as option 2 with fewer benefits). There's probably more because I don't really understand the dual systems set up with switchers. As mentioned, there are options but it depends on where you want to be, how complicated you care to make it, and how much you want to invest.

Depends on what you mean by "is". []

I don't think you were being flip at all. I appreciate the input. The point here is for me and hopefully others to learn. I gave in and downloaded the software from Home Theater Shack and have a new sound card on the way. That and 30 some feet of RCA cable should get us better information. We can start over when I have some graphs and figure out a way to draw up the room.

I'll be in and out today since I'm in an Access training class all day. [:S] Some background that I left out. I'm trying to fix these issues as inexpensively as possible so I don't have a lot of equipment at my disposal. I do have a Rat Shack meter and the test tones and that was used to take readings. It wasn't soley base on the room measurement equations. I used the equations as a starting point then took readings with pretty much confirmed the equations. The room is not at all square and I will post the dimension and room setup in the next post. Off to class.

Welcome to the forum. [] There are a lot of different opinions on this site with many different frames of mind. For instance, the Architectural section may suggest better room set-ups. The stereo section would probably suggest a great stereo tubed pre with HT bypass and a cheaper HT receiver (because stereo is more important to them). You may find more answers specific to HT questions by starting a thread in the HT section where the TV and the Sub and center channel seem to be the most important. Ultimately, once they are done, you will find yourself back here. [*-)]

I downloaded 1hz test tones I think from Real Traps (don't remember). Using that I narrowed down issues that matched the standing waves calculations of 27hz, 52hz, and 72hz based on readings and room dimention calculations. At this point I'm not to worried about the 27hz because my speakers barely put out sound at that level. I don't use a sub for music but I will use my parametric eq for the sub for movies which isn't as important to me. I have a peak at the listening position at 52hz which with some speaker placement and some tubing I was able to knock 1 db off and widen the peak a few hz. My biggest problem is at 72 hz. Actually, it's 75hz +/- 3hz. I have about a 6hz section in the 70's (72hz - 78hz) that is sucked out, down 7db. I was able to add back 1db from 75-78 with the tubes I made yesterday. This doesn't seem to be a harmonic of the previous problem frequencies, and does tie to the 7' 9" ceiling standing wave calculation. If I could get half of this back I would be happy as punch. Any suggestions? Also, any information on my previous question of how tight HR's work? Is it exactly the calculated frequency or is the +/- a couple percent? Thanks for the suggestions.

Dr. Who's EOH thread started me researching these things and I found a formula online to use to calculate the resonant frequency. =(v_of_sound / (2*PI())) * (SQRT(Area / (Volume * Length))) I plugged that into Excel and started playing. What I noticed was that the diameter had no effect on the frequency when using a cylinder. The math makes sense because 'Area' in the formula above would be canceled out by part of the volume formula. So for a cylinder you could rewrite the formula as = (v_of_sound / (2*PI())) * (SQRT(1 / Length^2)). No problem. But in my mind volume has to have some affect. Does the volume of the resonator correlate at all to the decibel decrease at the resonant frequency? If so, by how much and can that be factored in to get the desired effect? How narrow a band does a Helmholtz resonator affect? Is it just that one frequency? Or does it have a width of +/- something? I would think the width if it existed would be derived from the frequency but then at what amount of roll-off? Definitely more research is needed on my part but I thought I would pose some questions here so we can all learn.

Tubes arrived on Saturday and I've been able to put a couple hours on them. Thanks again for offering them up here, and the fast shipping. I'm slow and like to try something for a few weeks before attempting to describe what I'm hearing. They might have eight hours on them so far. I'd like to get a few more hours on them before attempting any critical listening with music. I'm hoping to get another 12 hours on them by the end of this weekend, then I'll start listening.

It didn't occur to me that he was suggesting using the power strip switch to control his system. I read it as a footnote on his rig. After re-reading a few times, I agree with the others. I was only referring to each components standby mode.

It depends on the equipment. I think SS amps can usually be powered off. Some people leave them on all the time though. Try it and find out. My SS preamp only has a standby switch on the front. There is a real power switch on the back of the unit but off is actually standby. This keeps parts of the pre warmed up at all times. So it never gets turned off by design (unless there is a storm coming). My CD player stays on all the time. It has a power switch and a standby switch. I have noticed that the soundstage cleans up after about 2-3 minutes of play when coming off of standby. From power up it take even more time. It shouldn't draw much current (never really checked it though) when nothing is playing so it is left on. Tubes, off when not in use. Experiment on your own and find out what works best.

I closer picture of the equipment, and Dan hiding behind speakers changing CDs. Edit: looks like The 5, 6, 7, 8's jewel case in his hand. [] Dan played both the original version of Woo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo and the version from the Vonage commercial. This is it for my usable pictures, hopefully Craig has a few good ones.

A snow day sent me home early this afternoon so I had some time to get extra things done. We are getting another 15-20 inches of snow today and tomorrow, on top of the 12 inches last weekend. [:'(] Finally got my system back together, boxes put away, and loaded some pictures. Another "I wish". Wish I would have taken more pictures. Behind the sweet spot (behind Craig). Speakers from out to in are KLF-20's, KG-4's, Heresy's (with impromptu risers).

Here is why I agree with that. The signal coming out of your preamp will be a fraction of the signal coming out of your CD player, therefore, anything that the preamp wire happens to pick up (RFI or whatever) will be a higher ratio of noise versus signal compared the CD players output. But, from a long time installation guy I know, in his opinion which seems to make sense, make the speaker cables as thick and as short as possible for the lowest capacitance and resistance (remember, capacitance combined with resistance is a filter). This means that the amp(s) should be as close to the speakers as possible (less than a couple feet). The trade off is longer interconnects between the amp and preamp which we see above is the weakest and most vulnerable signal. If you follow both of the previous points then the connection from CD player to pre is the last one to worry about because it is relatively short with a relatively strong signal.

Add Analog Productions to my list above. [Y]