Walt Koch Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Dear Fellow Enthusiast: Last weekend, I replaced the Monster Cable hook-up wire on the crossover networks and drivers of my 1983 Klipschorns with Cardas hook-up wire. This mod cost about 100 bucks for the three sizes of conductors and solder, but it's a 10 on the cost affective meter. Cardas recommend 11.5 awg for the woofers and inputs, 15.5 awg for the squawkers and 20.5 awg for the tweeters. This mod was not a cheep one, but for me a very worthwhile one, that brought a new level of musical realism reproduction to my system. The wire took about four hours to burn in and I've had a big smile ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lammers Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Walt, What are you driving your horns with? I have La Scalas an am getting ready to rewire them. Is the Cardas wire stranded or solid core? I think that this is another mod that is overlooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Koch Posted February 9, 2000 Author Share Posted February 9, 2000 Les, For years I used a Mac 240, but recently purchased a use pair of VTL MB-125 monoblocks. They use the EL 34 tubes and in the preferred triode mode make 60 watts, that's way more than needed, however they have a very sweet sound and nice bottom end punch. The Cardas conductors are stranded urethane enamel litz wire. It is recommended the ends be tined in a solder pot and the connection be solder with Quadeutectic solder and rosin flux. Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drobo1 Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 I am curious about the best connections. I have read that a properly crimped connection with the correct tools is a superior connection to a solder connection. After all, is not the solder's function merely to hold the wires or contact points together, not necessarily to conduct? What's the experts' opinion on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted February 13, 2000 Share Posted February 13, 2000 I've been told that cripming is best, but it takes a SUPER high pressure crimp. When done at such pressures, the molecules of metal become fused; more like in a weld. This allows superior electrical conduction - or so it is said. Any metallurgists out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted February 13, 2000 Share Posted February 13, 2000 Crimping provides a better mechanical connection than solder. I have never seen high pressure crimping used on small gauge wire. On anything smaller than 6 gauge the small hand crimpers do just fine. The down side to mechanical crimping is the Copper Oxide that forms on exposed copper. Not sure of the skin effect of the oxides that form on solder as compared to copper. I hardly think the measured resistance of either type joint would matter much at low power audio frequency applications. If you really concerned, why not solder and crimp? Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hauck Posted February 13, 2000 Share Posted February 13, 2000 I was going to ask a similar question. Can one crimp and then solder? This would seem ideal. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Koch Posted February 13, 2000 Author Share Posted February 13, 2000 Dear Gentlemen: I asked, George Cardas to weigh-in on the question of soldered or crimped connection, which is the best? The following is his reply. Well Walt, I would say that most crimped connections are better than most Soldered connections however the best connections are soldered connections -- the problem is that there is only one type of solder connection that is truly a joint most are as the word stated a connection. Most solders such as the most popular 60/40 are a slurred mixture of tin and lead in making the joint the tin-lead mixture is melted but as it solidifies it does so one metal at a time, so it goes into a slurry state and one metal is liquid and the other is solid very small particles sort of like wet cement. next the other metal solidifies and what you are left with is a, million little connections. This type of Connection is not particularly, good and not permanent. When the phone company that had to survive with this type of solders on their main frames every joint had to be, reheated once a year to insure reliability and even at that, the, "cold joint" was a regular thing. Bad and noisy joints were the main cause of failure in early printed circuit boards and electronic equipment until some time in the mid sixties or, early seventies someone figured out that eutectic joints were perfectly reliable and I do mean perfectly. BY the mid seventies or early eighties most electronic equipment was being soldered with eutectic solder (63/37) and the reliability of printed circuit boards went up about 1000% and solid-state gear began to sound almost tolerable -- Today all printed circuit Boards use 63/37 eutectic solder. Eutectic solder is a very special mixture. The melting point of a eutectic solder is LOWER that ANY of its component parts so there is no slurry state in these solders, they solidify as one piece and make a true solder joint not a connection. Now -- provided that the parts being soldered are made of a metal that is incorporated in the solder (tin plate in the case of the printed circuit boards and the leads on the components and the 63/37 tin/lead eutectic solder used the solder baths) you will have a perfect joint. These joints are easy to see. Most solders are very shiny when molten and get a haze on the surface as they solidify, eutectic joints are shiny all the way to the metal being soldered if the metal being soldered is of the same parent group as any of the components parts of the solder. The connectors I use are basically silver with a rhodium flash and the only wires used in high-end audio are copper and silver so I developed a tin-lead-silver-copper eutectic or QUADEUTECTIC solder. I have NEVER had or heard of a single failure of one of these joints this solder is now used in the vast majority of all cable and equipment in the high-end. Properly done Quadeutectic joints provide the best sound lowest noise and contact resistance with absolute reliability. cheers George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMS Posted February 18, 2000 Share Posted February 18, 2000 lammers, Walt is right on! I run my 1987 Khorns with a pair of VTL-125 mono blocks and cannot recommend them high enough!! I've had them for about six months. I shopped around a good bit and tried several other amps but the 125's won out. Like Walt, I run them in triode mode for 60 watts. I'm using an Audio Research LS-3 (1995) and a Rega Planet. I believe the LS-3 is also an excellent match. Audio Research did a 10db gain reduction on it for me. It took away a small amount of overall performance but made the gain control more useable and reduced the noise floor a lot. Another good match is VTL's Tiny Triode (25 watts in triode mode)? They use the EL84 tube and when I tried it the sound was very smooth and sweet on the KHorns. However, since I like to listen to Nirvana I needed just a little more slam in the bass. Just use some kind of tube amp!! Anyone found a really great (quiet) preamp to use with KHorns?? Walt is quote: Originally posted by lammers: Walt, What are you driving your horns with? I have La Scalas an am getting ready to rewire them. Is the Cardas wire stranded or solid core? I think that this is another mod that is overlooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMS Posted February 18, 2000 Share Posted February 18, 2000 Walt, I've used the 125's for the last six months. (purchased new) I love them!! Right now I'm using an Audio Reasearch LS3 and a Rega Planet. AR dropped the gain on the LS-3 by 10db for me and that helped lower the noise floor and make the gain control useable. I love the LS3 too but would be willing to try a good (quiet!!) tube preamp. Any recommendations? Thanks HMS quote: Originally posted by Walt Koch: Les, For years I used a Mac 240, but recently purchased a use pair of VTL MB-125 monoblocks. They use the EL 34 tubes and in the preferred triode mode make 60 watts, that's way more than needed, however they have a very sweet sound and nice bottom end punch. The Cardas conductors are stranded urethane enamel litz wire. It is recommended the ends be tined in a solder pot and the connection be solder with Quadeutectic solder and rosin flux. Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lammers Posted February 19, 2000 Share Posted February 19, 2000 Hi HMS, I am using Cary 300SE's flea powered 8 watts, Meridian 506 CD upgraded to 24 bit and a Joule Electra MKIII tube pre with 8db of gain and my system is dead quiet. This low gain with a 5751 tube is very nice with Klipsch. The gain is user changeable.The Joule MKIII is a VERY good tube pre. Check it out. JMHO, as they say, your mileage may vary. www.audiogon.com has lots of used high end gear. If you find a Joule MKII it can be upgraded to a MKIII. This is what I did. I've had this pre for 5 years. Do change the internal wiring of your speakers. It does lift a veil of 'fog'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drobo1 Posted February 19, 2000 Share Posted February 19, 2000 HMS, I have an Anthem Pre1L preamp built by Sonic Frontiers that has been very kind to my system. I picked this up used on Audiogon for $550. It retailed for $1000. It's very Spartan but also extremely quiet using four 6922 tubes and it has internal dip switches for adjusting gain which I think is necessary with Klipsch in order to effectively use your volume knob. It's not expensive but very good sound for the money. drobo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Koch Posted February 20, 2000 Author Share Posted February 20, 2000 HMS, Sounds like you already have a nice combo, but check out Spectral Audio's pre-amps. They are not tube pre-amps, however they work very well with tube amps. I listen to the Spectral DMC 20 coupled with a pair of VLT 185's it was amazing very quite and open. The Spectral stuff is also very expensive. At the moment I am using a dual passive attenuator from Reference Line more of a purest approach, I guess, but I sure would like to try a Spectral in my system, which I am sure would put the passive right out the door for good. Walt quote: Originally posted by HMS: Walt, I've used the 125's for the last six months. (purchased new) I love them!! Right now I'm using an Audio Reasearch LS3 and a Rega Planet. AR dropped the gain on the LS-3 by 10db for me and that helped lower the noise floor and make the gain control useable. I love the LS3 too but would be willing to try a good (quiet!!) tube preamp. Any recommendations? Thanks HMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lammers Posted February 20, 2000 Share Posted February 20, 2000 Check out the Foreplay Preamp Kit at www.bottlehead.com for under $200 you can build a darn good unit. Parts quality and circuit design are here at a low price. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkF Posted February 29, 2000 Share Posted February 29, 2000 On my Khorns, I am using a single ended 2A3 from Cary and the Cary SLP98 line stage preamp and a Tjoeb 99 tube CD player with DH Labs interconnects and speaker cable. Works very well more than enough power and very sweet and delicate sound. Now I am going after my speakers to round out the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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