Tube Amp for KG-4's?

[opteron44]

Hello All,

While I have been genereally happy with the sound of my KG-4's, I have long felt that the soundstage left a good deal to be desired. I ascribed this in large measure to a listening room that is 9' wide by 18' long and, by necessity, listening down the length of the room.

Over the weekend, I had a chance to audition a pair of factory upgraded Ohm F2's in my room. The soundstage was phenomenal - very deep and wide. While they werer fine with small combo's like the first cut from Cinema Paradiso, they simply had no balls - the low end was terribly weak and they fell apart in forceful, large orchestral music - like the opening of Carmina Burana.

I have always had solid state amps, most recently upgrading to the Emotiva UPA-2, which made a noticeable improvement over my aged Parasound. Having read that the vintage Klipsch are very good with tube amps, I was wondering whether those of you who have tube amps have enjoyed a bigger soundstage and which amps are being used. (If I were to go down that road, I'd probably look for a used one.)

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Jon

[Chris A]

I'd think about putting your money in more capable speakers - such as used Heresy's, Cornwalls, or La Scalas. Newer models in these series are even better, but cost more.

JubScalas (with the K402 horns) have outstanding soundstage, and Jubilees are..(wow)..even better...

The tube amp thing probably won't improve your soundstage to any significant degree (see profile). But it will heat your room in winter. [A]

Chris

[opteron44]

Thanks for getting back to me, Chris.

I understand your point about not realizing the kind of change that I am looking for by going to a tube amps- I wondered if that might be the case.

Sad to say, in my small listening room (9 x 18), I don't have room for any of the larger sized Heritage models with the possible exception of the Heresy. We visited a friend of ours this summer who has a pair of these (Heresy) and, while I liked them, I wasn't floored, if you know what I mean...

Since I've had a few unsatisfying experiences (Aperion 5T, Magnepan 550), I think I really need to do a "try before I buy" situation before I spend the last of my savings for audio.

Well, I'll keep digging around and see what I come up with. In the meantime, I'm hardly suffering with what I have ; -)

Jon

[Chris A]

in my small listening room (9 x 18), I don't have room for any of the larger sized Heritage models with the possible exception of the Heresy

Gotcha there. A bigger room is about the only thing that you can do.

I'd stay away from direct radiating speakers with dipole-like characteristics (like Bose, Magnepans, electrostats, or dipoles) because of the precedence effect (i.e., a human hearing effect). Good controlled-directivity (CD) horns are about the only thing that you can do, such as the JubScala.

[russ69]

Tube amps do add a certain amount of space to the sound. The better your speakers resolve the depth of image the more a tube amp will add to that. My Heresys are not the king of 3D imaging but I'm sure, in a demo, I would blow you away. With certain music the little Heresys are very impressive.

Thanx, Russ

I looked at your system profile. The Rotel CD player might be a little flat sounding, how does the Oppo sound as a CD player in your system?

[opteron44]

Chris,

I wanted to ask you: what are the JubScala's you've mentioned? I can't find a site for them or a reference except in the forums here.

Russ,

Thanks for your comments. Hands down, the Rotel does a better job with music in my system than does the Oppo. Certainly, once the Ohms were in place, I could hear much more of what it's doing (of course, that would also have been true of the Oppo, had I thought of trying it as well.) Also, I am using the DAC in the NAD T-163 and that may be singificant as well - although there wasn't a heck of a lot of difference between using the NAD and the built-in DAC.

Jon

[Chris A]

what are the JubScala's you've mentioned? I can't find a site for them or a reference except in the forums here.

Here is a picture and some discussion: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/122111.aspx?PageIndex=2

[dougdrake]

Forte = balls

I upgraded from KG4 to Forte and was very impressed with the increased soundstage and bass. I believe you'd be fine with them in your room. I had mine in an 11x10 room for a while and it was really quite impactful.

[Chris A]

I can't find a site for them or a reference except in the forums here.

Well, the JubScala configuration is a K-402 with a K-69A driver (typically) used in the Klipschorn Jubilee, but instead of the Jub bass bin, it uses a stock La Scala's bass bin. You can also use the smaller K-510 horn if looks or size of the K402 are limiting factors. There is a definite sonic difference between these two horns.

The midrange and tweeters on the La Scala are not used, but usually left in place. Roy Delgado, Klipsch engineer in Hope, AR, can help you with the correct hardware and software settings, including either an active crossover/EQ (like the EV Dx38), or passive crossover designs.

The JubScala configuration has been tested and EQed in the anechoic chamber in Hope. A few folks here have them, including Wrinkles (K-402) and Islander (K-510).

Chris

[opteron44]

Thanks to all for your comments.

I am a bit curious abut the Forte's and perhaps I'll have luck finding a pair to audition.

By the way, I cannot help but notice that nothing has been said in favor of the current line of Klipsch speakers. My guess is that they reflect a different approach to music than that exemplified by the Heritage line...

Jon

[Chris A]

By the way, I cannot help but notice that nothing has been said in favor of the current line of Klipsch speakers. My guess is that they reflect a different approach to music than that exemplified by the Heritage line...

[:#][8o|][]

Naw, no issues with current product lines...[:-*] The Heritage line is still going (if you buy directly from Klipsch, but you can't hear them at Best Buy...). The commercial line has some VERY interesting black speakers for the more "goth crowd"...[8-)]

Chris

[bkrop]

In response to your original post , I had KG-4s since they first came out in the 80s and ran them with technicsand later yamaha integrated amps with great results. After trying a Scott 299 rebuilt tube amp it was unbelievable, just smiling to myself while listening. have never gone back to solid state and can only say that if you go vintage tubes please have it properly restored to hear what it is supposed to sound like. Lush full vibrant SOUND!

[opteron44]

Chris - are there any models of the current lineup that you feel would be appropriate for my music mix, i.e. classical and show music? I am not married to anything other than the limits of my wallet and improving the sound.

Kprop - thanks for your observation about the Scott. Tube amps on Audiogon seem to start around $500, so I'd hate to guess wrong. Still, I'll see what I can do to get a trial: maybe one of the dealers locally have something on the used table I can get as a loaner. My Acurus Mondial 100 is emitting a warbling note through all 3 speakers connected to it, so I'm going to have to see about repairing it....

[Chris A]

Chris - are there any models of the current lineup that you feel would be appropriate for my music mix, i.e. classical and show music? I am not married to anything other than the limits of my wallet and improving the sound.

Since I'm not familiar with all the choices that even Klipsch currently has, I don't know if my opinion would be very good for your situation. However, I will say that any speaker that can keep its mid-to-high frequencies off the floor (floor bounce), ceiling (ceiling bounce) , or even walls in the case of a 9' wide room, you would definitely improve the imaging and the tonal balance of the system. This is all due to the precedence effect.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect'>

I'd use K-402 Jubscalas since they are smaller and less expensive than Jubilees--in your room--and they can control the bounce issues like no other speaker. All smaller speakers lose vertical and horizontrol pattern control below ~1-2 KHz. This is the problem with small speakers in small rooms.

Chris

[opteron44]

Thanks for the explanation, Chris.

As I understand it, the JubScalas requires a pair of LaScalas which are then customized by the owner to add the horns you mentioned. While I ceratinly admire people who are comfortable taking tools to their speakers to modify them, I think that such a project is well beyond my level of expertise.

I'll continue looking and listening.

Thanks again,

Jon