BobT Posted March 20, 2002 Share Posted March 20, 2002 I'm planning an upgrade of my home theater, which is actually my family room. I have over 12' of built in cabinetry, including built in RPTV. I'll be reworking that for an hdtv format tv. I have m&k bookshelf speakers now, but want more punch. Have always liked the klipsch sound. I already have a large sub. Physically, what would make the most aesthetic implementation would be to use 3 RC-7's. So my question is, is there some reason why rc-7's wouldn't make good left/right speakers? They are obviously timbre matched with the ref series freestanding. What would I give up with a setup like this? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted March 20, 2002 Share Posted March 20, 2002 some big-speaker "presence", I guess... also, the RC-7 is optimized for dialogue, if I remember correctly, one of its woofers is disabled for frequencies above a certain point to make vocals clearer, which could mean sacrificing a bit of low bass... but others have done what you suggest and seemed to like it a lot. ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 20, 2002 Share Posted March 20, 2002 bob which receiver or pre/processor using or will be using in the future? ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 BobT - In fact, this very idea was discussed on this forum a few months ago, and if I recall correctly (big IF there), it's a fine idea. I believe you would simply remove the horn and rotate it 90 degrees and reinstall it (assuming you would put the RC-7's on their ends in a "tall" configuration). The 2 1/2 way crossover on the woofers is intended, I believe, to avoid bass cancellation in the lower frequencies. I don't believe you'll sacrifice anything, other than the fact that they won't have the slam of larger Reference floorstanding models. Plus, you'll have a perfectly matched front soundstage!! I say go for it (but then, it's not my $$ if it doesn't work ). Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT Posted March 21, 2002 Author Share Posted March 21, 2002 Hi Everyone, and thanks. I don't really know what amp/receiver I might use down the road. I have always been a yamaha guy, but my current (5.1) reciever is a sony ES. At the time, it was the only receiver available that had enough optical inputs for what I was doing. Now that wouldn't be a problem. I may go with some large commercial amps. We'll see. At least a nice Yamaha or Denon receiver. As for tipping them on end - no, the whole point is that I can have one long horizontal "shelf" in my cabinetry, directly above the TV, and the three speakers would all lay down on this shelf. I have 12 feet to work with, so there should be decent separation. One of you guys hinted at what I was wondering - if the RC7 is optimized for vocals, and thus not as suitable as a front speaker. Or, that the sound dispersion is more wide angle than a front should be? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 well, if you read dougdrake's post, it seems I was wrong and the "2-1/2 way" configuration I was referring to is to avoid bass cancellation, not muddying up of the vocals. so I guess you can disregard that. the only thing left to worry about is what you mentioned, i.e. too wide dispertion that could mess up the imaging, as you won't be using them upright. ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 I tried to put enough "I believe" disclaimers in my post to alert you that I'm going off memory, which is a dangerous thing here. Please check the reason for the 2 1/2 x-over with someone at Klipsch (tech support, PhilH, etc...), Seb or anyone else, before taking my thought as gospel, please!!! Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT Posted March 21, 2002 Author Share Posted March 21, 2002 Don't some Klipsch people monitor this forum? I first considered emailing them direct, but figured this would be as good or better. Another option I have thought of is to get one of the floor standing models, knock off the bases, and lay them sideways in the same configuration. My current M&K's sound horrible when laid sideways, so it is possible the same would happen with the Klipsch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 yea that's an idea get 2 or 3 rf-3 to rf-7 & change out the boards ala horned w/ his klf-30 power center. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyleS Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Hi I think that the setup you describe would be fine. As another option you could look for a used set of Klipsch THX front speakers: See this site for KT-LCR description. I've had a set for 3 years now and I've used them in a wall unit for a couple of years oriented vertically. I'm now using one as a center channel on my RPTV horizontally oriented, and the other two as rear surrounds. (I've moved up to la scala's as mains). While the speakers do sound somewhat different when vertical or horizontal, it is not that either way sounds terrible. The problem you hear in the sound may be less about the speakers being on their side, and more about how much they are set into the cabinet, see my idea below for a suggestion, even getting them out 8 to 10 inches may make a difference. The KT-LCR's make great front speakers, especially when crossed over at 80 hz to an appropriately matched subwoofer. If you have the option, you may want to try making some shelves that can be pulled out of the unit on the same hardware as you use for drawers. Then you can pull the speakers out of the unit for movies and music listening, and slide them back into place when not in use. Lyle. ------------------ Gear: Klipsch La Scala ;THX home cinema: KT-LCR, KT-SW15 Onkyo Integra DTR-7 THX Denon POA-2800 Amplifier Panasonic RP91 DVD NAD 7140 Stereo receiver (Pre Only with Denon Amp) This message has been edited by LyleS on 03-21-2002 at 04:58 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 RC-7s can indeed make fine main, center and surrounds. BobG once recommended I use KLF-C7s for surrounds. I found a pair of La Scalas cheaper, but looked into it. You could easily build a fine HT system with 5 RC-7s and an RSW-15. The 2 1/2 way woofer system is to prevent cancellation at the highest frequencies the woofers produce. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT Posted March 21, 2002 Author Share Posted March 21, 2002 Any Klipsch employees wish to comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 BobT: RC-7's will work fine in an R/C/L configuration. I have heard RC-7's used as mains for a brief period and was impressed. If I remember right, DeanG on this board had them in his system for awhile and liked them also. Go for it! PhilH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 As I understand it, the tapered array in the RC-7 cuts the vocal frequencies out of one woofer to preclude the two woofers from being slightly out of sync and thereby making dialogue harder to comprehend. I do not understand how bass cancellation would be an issue in the RC-7 design. IMHO, that process does not help the broad spectrum timbre match of RF-7 with RC-7. However, that is not to say that the RC-7 is not a splendid piece of audio engineering. Again... from my view(ear)point, the RF-7 sound is far more robust... and I would bet that a six-pack of RF-7's would be hire on the Awesome Scale than a six-pack of RC-7's. -HornEd ------------------ This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-25-2002 at 12:33 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT Posted March 25, 2002 Author Share Posted March 25, 2002 Ed: There might be (just) enough room to use RF7's laid down: < ( ) ( )RF7 > <( ) RC7 ( ) > Kind of a crude drawing, but I think you get the idea. Any idea if Klipsch speakers meant to stand up sound okay laying down? I would set up all three speakers within the cabinetry, directly above the TV. Cover the whole thing with speaker cloth. I see you have front-effects channels. I know Yamaha receivers have these, dunno if others do too. If Yamaha, which amp do you have, and did you audition others such as denon and such? I have always liked Yamaha gear and think I may go with one next. BobT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Unfortunately, BobT, not enough people were as enthusiastic about buying extra speakers for Front Effects... and so the newest Yamaha's do not have Front Effects. I have a Yamaha RX-V3000 (which was about 2K) and have tested Denon's best against "in house" and still prefer the V3000. The extra power of some of the high end receivers just don't make a difference when you have the efficiency of Klipsch. New RX-V3000's are being phased out for as little as a third of their original street price... and, to my mind, represent a particularly good buy for Klipschers. Currently, KLF C-7's are the Front Effects Speakers and the 25 watts per Front Effects Channel drives them effortlessly. Using Front Effects for HT allows the Left and Right Main to be closer to the 65" RPHD Mitsubishi... for better HT sound correlation with the screen. This Yamaha automatically converts 5.1 sources to 6.1 output (a matrix of left side-surround and right side-surround)... and that's nice. Of course 6.1 source is decoded properly as well. Frankly, in house testing with competing amps proved 7.1 is not worthwhile unless you have a HUGE room and there is more discrete programming to take advantage of it. The eight-channel stereo for parties does a much better job than I expected. Aside from fiber-optic pay cable service, the Yamaha is fed a diet of progressive scan source from a Toshiba 6200 and better quality video from a six-head Toshiba SVHS recorder/player. Image quality is outstanding... particularly with progressive scan. If you noticed from the small photo, I have rebuilt the horizontal KLF-30 by designing and fabricating a new motorboard (baffle board to some folks - motorboard to Trey Cannon legendary Klipsch customer service person). I could not ask for a better center channel for KLF-30's than a KLF-30! I suspect that if one were to arrange the Tractrix horn in the center and flank it with the woofers, an RF-7 would make the best matching center for RF-7 mains. Since upward of 75% of 5.1 sound comes through the center speaker... that is no place for a less than your best speaker IMHO. Initially, I was concerned that the two 12" woofers in the "horizontalized" KLF-30 might cause an intelligibility problem without having a tapered array... but in practice it has been no problem at all... and the timbre match is far better than a C-7 or an Academy (both of which I have). I understand and concur with your typed "drawing." Be sure if you enclose them in a raised cabinet that they are angled horizontally and vertically with the sweet spot for best results. Also, by putting the RF-7's horizontal you will be changing the sound dispersal pattern. Remember when you raise the speakers up, the floor becomes further away... and much of the free bass boost gained from floor proximity will go away. Another issue of concern is that both the RF-7 and the RC-7 have twin bass ports in the rear of the box. Proper bass response depends upon having distance between the back of the speaker and the "wall"... which may compromise the use of cabinetry. In my experience sealed speakers do better as built-ins than ported speakers do. Of course, sound is an illusion that your brain dotes on... and if all you have to please is your own illusion... you should find a way. -HornEd PS: I thought you might like to see the photo a bit bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT Posted March 25, 2002 Author Share Posted March 25, 2002 Argh! Ported???? I didn't realize that. Yes, that would shoot sound into the cabinet space, bouncing around there, presumably with an echo/boom effect. I don't suppose one can just cover up the ports? Are all upper end Klipsch's ported? I could fill the space with some sound deadening material. But I'm sure they have the ports for a reason (and don't expected them muffled/covered). BobT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 I like the tiger. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Well, indeed, you may still be able to put an interesting Klipsch system together. The Heresy II speakers in the Heritage line are sealed and still under production. Belles could also be enclosed in cabinetry but they are rather large but are fully horn loaded and do not require a corner. LaScalas are also fully horn loaded and rather large. But could, indeed, be hidden behind grille cloth. Production had been suspended on the Heritage line due to the unavailability of a key component. That problem has been resolved and production renewed... although I suspect the back orders are quite large. Vintage heritage speakers are actively sold in the marketplace. Recent vintages 1997+ have the preferred crossover networks (AK-3) and Monster wire internal connections. The Academy is one of the best centers Klipsch has produced and is also sealed though no longer produced. They can be had on eBay and elsewhere. Cornwalls, built to emulate the sound of the Klipschorn but not require a corner is ported... but the ports face forward and would suit your purposes. While no longer produced, they have held their value and may be found on the secondary market, eBay, etc. You see, it is the medium range speakers that are fashionably thin, but gain their svelte from being ported. Of course, there are a whole catalog of contractor's Klipsch units which fit in walls... so you could conceivably mount this type of unit in cabinetry that would become its enclosure. Perhaps not an audiophile solution... but one that has proven quite popular. So, all is not lost. Good fortune may yet prevail. -HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Kenratboy, the Tiger in the above photo is an actual screen shot taken while the dts 6.1 version of "The Gladiator" was progressively scanned by a Toshiba 6200 into the 65" RPHD Mitsubishi. It is a five megapixel digital photograph... and, sadly, there is some glare on the screen caused by the flash. Glad you liked it... obviously, I did too! -HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.