n00b questions

[Rabbit 16v]

Hi all, I am new here. I have been a lurker for a while and I thought I would ask a question. i know this is going to be a little wierd, but its just what I have and I want to have what I own sound its best (even if it is not ideal).

So, on to the question: I have a set of Speakerlab K-horns. When I got them they did not have the top units for the hf drivers. I had to make them myself. So, I am concerned with crossovers. I have a set of crappy MCM crossovers that were a generic cutoff range. At one point during some listening (at a pretty high volume) one of the caps kinda melted down. I tried to replace the caps but ever since it has not sounded ok. Granted, it never did sound ok due to what I had before. I will admit that I am a n00b to a certain extent. I have popped numerous VCs on my tweeters and mids. Here is what I have: EV DL15x woofers, EV t35A tweeters and JBL 2416 h-1 mids. I have personally replaced the diaphragms in the mids and tweets many times (probably due to my abuse). Currently these speakers are being driven from a sunfire TGA-5400.

Any ideas what to use for crossovers?

Should I lose the mids?

I found a guy on CL that had a set of AA crossovers but I didnt buy them as of yet.

Thanks for any and all input.

Chris

[deafbykhorns]

The 2416 may be a problem, I believe the cutoff is 800hz. The AA is 400hz with a gentleslope

Sounds like you crank your system from time to time so you may want to search another horn solution. Do a search, you will find a world of info on this forum. The trachorn with the K55 is probably the most cost effective solution. Go with the universal alks if your an spl junkie, youll never go back.

Start your search with Crites, ALK or just simply order the parts from Klipsch.

[djk]

What horn do you have?

The 2416 will go to 500hz on an appropriate horn, but requires a steep crossover, and doesn't sound the best below about 630hz or so.

The T35 used with a Klipschorn crossover will handle a Carver M1.5, 600W on program material at 8 ohms.

The EV woofer is 8 ohms, so you can't use the stock Klipsch crossover on that either.

[Rabbit 16v]

Thanks for all the input. I am not sure what horn is on the 2416. It is what comes stock on an MR 825 monitor. i have just been trying to work with what I have. ALK? Does someone have a link? Yes, I can confess that I am an spl junkie at times... hence the reason i dont complain about all the diaphragms I have ahd to replace

Thanks again for all the input!!

Chris

[jwwrs]

http://www.alkeng.com/klipsch '> http://www.alkeng.com/klipsch

[Al Klappenberger]

For the "steep crossover" look for the ES400 + ES5800 combination. The mid-range (squawker) horn itself is very important too. I suspect the SpeakerLab horn is no better than the K400.

AL K.

[djk]

"I am not sure what horn is on the 2416. It is what comes stock on an MR
825 monitor"

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/mr800%20series/mr825.pdf

The 2373 horn is meant to cross above 1Khz or so, too small to use with a Klipschorn (the MR 825 crosses at 1.5Khz).

[deafbykhorns]

Once you get the combination right, you should not blow drivers. In my younger years, I had a Carver PM1.5 (450wpc) connected to a pair of Khorns with the K43 woofer installed, hence my moniker "deafbykhorns". Look around in the garage sale section for horns and drivers or call Klipsch and they will sell you everything you need. Or go to Bob Crites or Alk. The ALK universals or extreme slope will work well with those high SPL's, you cant go wrong with the kit version. Get rid of everything else except the T35

[Rabbit 16v]

Thanks for the input. so I guess I need to lose the JBLs. No biggie. So the current plan is to keep the EV drivers (tweet and woofer) and get a different horn for the mids. Then get ALK networks. I figured that I jsut needed to get the right setup so I wont be blowing drivers. Its annoying to replace them and deal with the cops

You mention lose everything except the t35s but I was under the impression that the DL15x was the appropriate driver for a K-horn. Is it not acceptable?

Thanks again for all the help guys!

Chris

[deafbykhorns]

You got it! Sell the other parts either on this forum or Ebay. You wont be disappointed.

For starters, check Klipsch for K-55M, K-33E, and K-401 (guys, correct me if I'm wrong) or consider upgrading to ALK Trachorn and Crites CW1526C cast woofer. You may find some of this stuff in the garage sale section or on Ebay.

Couple all this with a ALK universal and your set for high SPL's

[Rabbit 16v]

Great! Thanks! Just one question though (mainly cause it cost me a bunch), what is wrong with the DL15x? Wrong frequency range? Like I said, I am a n00b at this.

Chris

[Al Klappenberger]

Chris,

Out of curiosity I tried to look up the spec sheets on the JBL 2416. I couldn't find a thing on it but replacement diaphragms for sale all over the place! I think you should see Bob Crites for an Atlas PD-5vh which is the very driver Klipsch puts on new Khorns (K55-x). It's not the best thing ever made but it's not bad at all! That will let you use a less aggressive crossover too. You could even use a Klipsch clone (YUCH! [+o(])

Al K.

[Rabbit 16v]

Al,

thanks for the input. I tried to find spec on the 2416 also, but I couldnt find much more that what you found a bunch of replacement diaphragms. DJK pointed out that the enclosure that originally had the 2416 crossed over at 1.5k and from what I have found it is correct. From what I found the lowest that it can go at a reasonable rate is about 1200. So obviously, that is going to be too high.

a note on the DL15x drivers, I thought they would be ok. Does anyone dispute this? I must admit that I bought them before I had the internet available to me so I am unsure. the specs seemed right for the application IMHO.

Is it possible that i could get a new horn for the 2416 and make it work? if not, no worries. i would like to think that I am frugal, not cheap, LOL!!

Does Bob sell the horn for the driver? I mean if I get the driver, I will need the horn to go with it.. I think?

Thanks again guys for the input!

Chris

[Al Klappenberger]

Chris,

I have no idea what the DL15x driver is, but any driver used with the Khorn MUST go down to 400 Hz withOUT distortion. The ONLY driver compatible with a 1 inch throat I know of that will do that is the K55 / PD-5vh. If you want to spend the money to go to a 2-inch horn you have several possibilities. Even then the only one I know of that is actually intended to be crossed at 400 Hz is the B&C DCM50. All of the Klipsch network designs depend on the high limit of the mid-range driver extending to EXACTLY 6000 Hz or there will be and overlap or gap in the crossover to the tweeter. Only my network designs will solve this. SOOooo... Get a set of PD-5 or be ready to spend some money!

Al K.

[Fjd]

DL 15x is a Electro-voice 15" low frequency driver

http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Drivers/EDS/DL15X%20EDS.pdf

Klipsch K-33 15" low frequency driver

SPEC 15162
PART # K-33

RE OHMS 3.39 FS HZ 34.46
LE MH .96 MMS GMS 78.59
QM 7.39 CMS mm/N .2714
QE .410 RMS NS/M 2.3037
QT .390 VAS LTRS 301.66
XMAX MM 8.20 SD SCM 889.59
BL TM 11.88 EBP 84.4
EFF % 2.91 SPL dB 96.6
Wattage 150rms

With a DIY project I believe that a person needs to compare all T/S parameters and understand the impact the parameter differences between drivers that you are evaluating will have on the finished product. Here is one comparison: DL 15x Fs = 42.00 Hz; K-33 = 34.46 Hz Per the graph in the link the DL 15x shows the bass response rolling off pretty fast below about 50Hz. I don't have the crites woofer specs, but I believe that the CW1526 Fs ~ 27 Hz. I believe that the Crites woofers are a very close approximation to the old K-33 15" Klipsch low frequency drivers that were sourced and used by Klipsch before 1984 or 1985 (I'm not certain on the year Klipsch changes to the specs above, which have the higher Fs).

[Al Klappenberger]

I see the DL 15x is a woofer driver. I would go for a K33 or a clone for the Klipsch woofer. PWK optimized his horns for that woofer even though it's not top quality. You know it will be compatible. A "better" woofer might not even show the same complex impedance to the crossover.

Al K.

[TNRabbit]

Why don't you simply fuse the speakers? 2-3 amp slo-blo will get you started....

[deafbykhorns]

Perfect timing, heres the drivers you need

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/135959.aspx

[Rabbit 16v]

Thanks for the tip! I replied to his post, so we will see.

I do not really like the idea of adding fuses as it could lead to me covering up an underlying issue. Granted, I know I am dealing with somewhat of a frankenspeaker for lack of a better term. However, I try to be frugal within my means

I think I will need to get more aquainted with Al when I get the new mids. There is definitely a problem with the networks I have now and it sucks.

I promise to update when i get the new mids and networks.

Thanks to all of you for your input! It has been very helpful!

regards,

Chris

[Rabbit 16v]

Ok update. I got that pair of K55s (thanks Dave!). So now I guess I need horns to go with them. The trachorns looks pretty nice but kinda spendy. Are there other options that would sound nice? Obviously I cannot use the horns that I already have with the JBL drivers, right?

Thanks for all the help so far guys!

Chris