Another Cornscala is born

[handrewmoore]

Ok, so I need a network set at 600/5800 to take advantage of the fastrac's abilities. Your statement of which driver you want to produce a certain range makes a lot of sense. Where could I get a network with these XO points? Al has the AP12-600 + the ES5800. However, that bumps the cost of the project another $400 or so. I've never built a crossover and outside of a rudimentary understanding, I have no idea what's really going on in those concoctions of caps and inductors.

I'm definitely gonna send you a pm before I get all this stuff ordered and thrown together. I hope to be listening to sweet, sweet (well, it's already pretty sweet, so how bout sweeter) music by summer's end. I should have a bit of free time coming up in the next few weeks.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Guest David H]

Ok, so I need a network set at 600/5800 to take advantage of the fastrac's abilities. Your statement of which driver you want to produce a certain range makes a lot of sense. Where could I get a network with these XO points? Al has the AP12-600 + the ES5800. However, that bumps the cost of the project another $400 or so. I've never built a crossover and outside of a rudimentary understanding, I have no idea what's really going on in those concoctions of caps and inductors.

If you are not comfortable building crossovers, the ALK universal is a great way to go, I have never heard the AP12-600 + ES5800 but I am sure is excellent as well.

I have told many people, I have not heard a bad Cornscala, so whatever crossover you choose will probably sound good. Some of my customers prefer the Klipsch B-3 network.

Dave

[dls123]

Hi

Everything I said about the Cornscala is wrong. It now has 20 hours on the caps and the highs have fully opened up. I was wrong...they are better than I thought! Any boom in the bass is now gone, the midrange has no trouble whatsoever making it up to 6000 with those fastrac horns, and the highs are fully extended. Cymbals sound like cymbals should. No harshness at all, well defined and musical bass. Imaging is very good. Maybe not quite as good as my Josephs, but hey, that is their strong point. However, the Cornscalas are do a very good 3D image depth and floor to ceiling image with the lateral soundstage a foot or two wider than the speakers. With a Citation II the clarity is simply unreal. The Josephs do not have this dynamic range. They sound nice, but sort of polite. And believe me, I love them and have lived with them for 5 years.

All the discussion about crossover choice is familiar. I tried to sort it all out when trying to plan mine. Like I said above, I just built the one that gothover liked, figuring that he had heard many. It turned out great. I have attached a photo of how I built my XO. I like ground busses since I build tube amps all the time and use them. It allows me to see exactly what is going on, and that everything is star grounded. I am sure there are many ways to do this though. I just used Solens Litz air core coils on the mid and tweeter instead of foil because I live in Canada and Parts connexion was having one of their 15% off sales and they carry Solens. I am sure I could have used the foil ones and the speakers would have sounded very similar. Ditto the 600/6000 universal vs. the ES crossed over at 5800. I bet they sound pretty similar. Certainly both would sound great. At some point you need to just dive in, use good components, and build a pair. You WILL be happy no matter which path you choose. I agree though, try and cross the midrange at 5800 or 6000 and cross the woofers to mids at around 600. The K33 sounds great up there, they have no problems. If you look at the response of the fastrac horn with the K55 on Dave's site you can see that crossing at 600 is right where the combo flattens out. 500 will probably work, but there is no reason to go that low. Trust us, it sounds really good at 600 and 5800 or 6000. My 2 cents. Really, this is one of the best pair of speakers I have ever heard at any price! Are there better ones? Of course, there are always better ones. But you know, a lot of the stuff in Stereophile that sells for $10K a pair and up doesn't sound appreciably better than these. They certainly don't have the dynamics. I am sure they measure better, but who cares? These sound like music, and you are too busy enjoying the tunes to be wondering about whether there is a hump or suckout at some frequency. They just have that certain jump and they sound like music!

cheers,

Don

[handrewmoore]

Dave, I thought the ALK universal was crossed at 400hz, can he set the squaker/woofer XO higher? Good to know whichever route I choose that it'll sound good![] I plan to go with the fastrac first and then step up the XO later. Will I hear much difference with the type B XO that is in there now, or should I pull the trigger on both the horn and XO at the same time? How long does it typically take for you to get a set of fastracs out once they've been ordered?

[handrewmoore]

Don, man, that is a good to hear. Didn't mean to hijack your thread here, but I'm learning a lot. You guys have convinced me of the xo points, I'm getting more and more pumped by the post! Those are some nice looking crossovers, you wouldn't want to build another pair would you? [] I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to get someone to do them for me, I'm confrotable doing some stuff on my own, but I just know I'd screw up some mundane detail unless I had someone holding my hand through every step. Though I'd like to learn. I'm looking at some tube kits and am far less intimidated as they have instructions for dummies like me included[]. I was just saying, we got to A/B Khorns and Palladiums in Hope and while the Palladiums sounded awesome and surely measure better, I liked the Khorns for the live dynamic feel. Sometimes more money doesn't always get you what you're lookin for.

[Guest David H]

Dave, I thought the ALK universal was crossed at 400hz, can he set the squaker/woofer XO higher? Good to know whichever route I choose that it'll sound good!

The ALK universal is set at 400-5800, Please note: "ALK does not approve of the mod I posted of his design". The Fastrac Cornwall will perform well with the ALK Universal crossover and tweeter attenuator, the differences in the mod I made and the original crossover are to simply remove some of the load from the mid driver especially when using the K-52 Hepner driver, the K-55 will easily handle the load.

Please dont ask Al to modify his crossover, If you want to try your hand at a DIY crossover and try this mod more power to you.

The type B crossover you have will work nicely, I suggest re-capping the crossover while they are out.

Dave

[Guest David H]

Those are some nice looking crossovers, you wouldn't want to build another pair would you?

Although this crossover has been modified from its original form, the original design belongs to ALK, and if you are to copy and or build these crossover for other than DIY purposes (ie profit) I suggest you get permission from ALK himself.

Dave

[handrewmoore]

Thanks Dave. I would be hesitant about messing with any crossovers, and certainly not for profit. I think I'm going to go with the ALK AP12-600 + ES5800, those would only be about $100 more than his universals anyway.

[Guest David H]

Thanks Dave. I would be hesitant about messing with any crossovers, and certainly not for profit. I think I'm going to go with the ALK AP12-600 + ES5800, those would only be about $100 more than his universals anyway.

Nice, I will be anxious to hear your reports on the uprades, I think Bliss may have tred this combination as well and was pleased with the results.

Dave

[handrewmoore]

Another quick question for those in the know. If I'm looking for a crossover at 600/6000, wouldn't a Type B with new caps fit the bill? Looking at the Type B in my cabinet and the ALK crossovers is like looking at a Chihuahua next to a English Mastiff. I don't want to swap out networks a million times, and can't really a/b the differences of all the different networks, just trying to get it right the first time. I listen to a lot of jazz, some older rock, folk, piano and guitar at moderate volumes.

[robi]

Another Cornscala......nice!!!!

Roby.

[SkyDover]

This is the reasons I went with the 400hz/4500hz crossover points:

Drivers are: Crites 15" Cast Frame Woofers, K-55-X Atlas Mid, APT-200 Tweeter.

I think crossover points depends really on how one likes their sound.
I greatly debated going crossover points 600/6000 or 400/4500.
After comparing the two, I ended up going with the 400/4500 crossover points
for my Cornscalas.

Crossing the 4500hz point does not compromise the K-55 midrange at all, what I
noticed was that crossing at this point gives the HF a bit more snap and detail
presence but vocals are very realistic sounding. At 6000hz crossover, it takes
some of the snap presence from the tweeter, bringing less attention to it so to
speak. I liked the snappier detail the 4500 crossover point gives but I like my
sound more detailed than slightly more mallow.

Same with crossing over at 400hz, I noticed more quick bass snap with giving some
of that range for the midrange driver, it sounds very tight, quick, accurate, snappy,
and detailed. The best bass I've ever heard!

I have Klipshorn's, KLF-20, and RF-7 speakers and my CornScala speakers are the best
sounding speakers I own right now. I listen very little to my other Klipsch speakers
with the sound quality these cornscala's give me. I'm extremely happy with how the
sound came out. I love the very tight and punchy direct vented bass sound compared
to my Klipschorn's bass. The cornscala bass has no boomy bass at all. It sounds
great and very uniform from bottom to top with slightly more snappy presence!

[SkyDover]

My Klipsch Speakers: Klipschorn, KLF-20, RF-7

[REN]

that is how i like mine to i did the same comparing the two like you did and ended up going with 400hz/4500hzi thinks its sound alot more natral espsecially in the cymbals