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About SkyDover

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  1. Claude, I remember seeing those 1976 CornScala Center you posted of your speakers/room, nice picture and setup!! I remember thinking that you were way ahead of your time before it became popular doing CornScalas!! My SpeakerLab's have the metal K400 with the ribs, but I can't say I hear a difference between them and the K-55 or Atlas PD-5VH when I was testing different horns.... or not that my ears could pick up although I wasn't paying that much attention to it but I remember thinking how the 40 year old SpeakerLab driver surprised me how much it sounded just like the new Atlas PD-5VH driver, I thought I would hear some difference from age but I didn't but others have said that they could hear a difference between old and new diaphragms. I wonder if the difference you heard, could this have something to do with the Magnar oil that SpeakerLab put in the voice coil gap in their mid drivers? They said it was supposed to be an improvement but some have claimed that it sounded better when they removed it. Maybe mine have dried up after 40 years? Good point with the bass-bins... sometimes you can get them far cheaper than what just the wood cost to build them, what you save and put the extra $$$ towards custom tops with the drivers you dream about!! Also, thanks for all your sharing here, I really enjoy reading and seeing your projects here!!!
  2. Triceratops, No apologies needed, I do agree with you that no SpeakerLab's should be pawned off as Klipschorn's saying name tags fell off, I would hope that people would be honest but you never know these days sometimes. I did look at a SpeakerLab pair about 3 years ago, a lady had listed as Klipschorn's and I knew it was SpeakerLab's and I had to tell her the $2800.00 was alot to ask for them not being Klipsch and she explained that a neighbor told her they were worth alot being Klipschorn's, her uncle had passed and it was up to her to sell them. She wasn't sure she believed me but she had someone research it and then called me back and said they were SpeakerLab's and she would sell them for $400.00 if I could pick them up that day. She called two days later and said she would sell them for $250.00 but I still didn't buy them because they weren't what I was looking for, they were not factory made, and they were made out of particle board that looked really crappy when looking at the backs of them and they already had some stress cracks in them being set down too hard or such, but in her case... she didn't know what she had and listened to someone that told her they were Klipschorn's. I wouldn't pay more than $400 to $500 for SpeakerLab's but if they were very rare/special SpeakerLab's than maybe $600 to $1000. If they were built crappy, I wouldn't even take them for free. SpeakerLab's have their place for those who want to get into them cheaper to enjoy the Klipsch sound with only having to change the crossovers to a Klipsch design crossover. Well, they sound fine with the crossovers they came with but I was too used to the Klipsch sound. My SpeakerLab's cost very cheap compared to the cost of my Klipchorn's! Not everyone has the budget for Klipschorn's so the next best thing to afford them are SpeakerLab's so this is exactly the route my son took since he says corner horns are way too expensive for him used and new are unattainable for him at this time in his life. He does have RF-7 he loves that he got for a great price too. His SpeakerLab's are a mix of MDF and Plywood and sound fine, they were supposedly built by a carpenter and if I remember right... I think he paid something like $250 to $300 for them.
  3. >triceratops said:none will ever be built with the precision or structural integrity of a real Klipschorn I strongly agree with Marvel, It's a statement you can't definitively say unless you compare them. If you are lucky enough to get factory built SpeakerLab's, they've had a great reputation of being very accurate! If it's someone who built them from the SpeakerLab Kit, then it's only as good as the skills of the builder. I was on the look out for factory built real wood SpeakerLab's in my area to compare them to my own Klipschorn's, and finally found a pair that came up. You can imagine how shocked I was with the bass sounding so good on the SpeakerLab's because most I heard was incorrect info given and was warned that they had no bass compared to Klipschorn's but I quickly found that was not true. If you are lucky and get the W1504S woofers in the SpeakerLabs, these are the same as that Klipsch used at the time, the CTS 4ohm 15" woofers. They give plenty of bass and have the square magnet. After comparing them to my Klipschorn's and the SpeakerLab's, these are factory built and use a very high quality built wood and beautiful veneer that surpasses my Klipschorn's and so does the build quality that really surprised me there but I realize these are a very special pair of SpeakerLab's than the norm. None of the particle board/MDF crap at all in them. Their weakness is only the crossovers, the mid and high are too subdued compared to Klipsch, they are 3db to 4db lower in mid/'high output but once you change it to TypeA crossover, it brings it to the same 104/105db, and they've become one of my favorite speakers, even when comparing them to my own Klipsch Klipshorn's, although I still think Roy did a great job with the AK4/5 crossovers than Al thinks! The AK4/5 sound great and you quickly realize this when comparing them to higher end crossovers.
  4. >> WMcD said: >> Not everyone likes the Speakerlab woofers. Dr. Bruce Edgar said the only was of fixing the situation was to smash them with a sledgehammer. PWK published a Dope from Hope about an >> unidentifed near copy (must have been the SK) and the curves were not so good Don't believe everything that you read! It depends on what woofer came with the SpeakerLab you got. If you were lucky enough to get the W1504S woofers, this was the exact CTS 4-Ohm woofers (K-33) that Klipsch used during that time period. SpeakerLab also offered the W1508S 8-Ohm version that was special order if you wanted to run four SpeakerLab K speakers off one amp. Even in the SpeakerLab catalog they express that they preferred the 4-Ohm version (W1504S) for the SpeakerLab K speakers. There is a lot of inaccurate information out there about the SpeakerLab K and it's woofers and it's accurate copy of the bass-bin. I bought my AK-4 Klipschorn's brand new and always curious about how well SpeakerLab K held up to the Klipschorn, finally in 2018 I found a mint SpeakerLab K factory made pair came up for sale 5 hours away. Several people told me the woofers would have to be replaced with K-33 woofers or the bass will never wake up that tried the SpeakerLab K already so I went ahead and ordered brand new K-33 woofers to replace them. I made the 5 hour trip each way and picked them up. They are flawless with a beautiful red/golden mahogany veneer over high-quality ply-wood, not one piece of MDF or particle board crap is in this set. They are factory made and bought them from the original owner that has had them since 1977. They came with HT350 tweeters/metal horn (like K-77), Atlas PD-5VH Mid, Same metal K-400 horn but with ribs, and CTS woofers 4-Ohm (W1504S) same that Klipsch (K-33) used at that time. When I got them hooked up and listened, I was shocked at how good the bass was! I could hear right away that the mid and highs were more subdued than what I was used to with my AK-4 Klipschorn's. The problem with the SpeakerLab's wasn't the bass, it was the crossovers!!! Once I built a set of Klipsch Type A crossovers, they are great Klipsch sound! I changed the woofers to the K-33 and they sound very much a like only being that the square CTS (W1504S) woofers go slightly lower than the K-33 round magnet woofers. After going months back and forth between the woofers, I decided to keep the CTS (W1504S) woofers that came with the SpeakerLab K in them, they sound a little better and slightly lower bass but it's so minimal it doesn't really matter. I did not need to buy new woofers for them like a few told me, they must have had a different version woofers with their SpeakerLab K than I did. All the drivers in this 1977 SpeakerLab K looks brand new, I don't think this guy ever used them much! He kept decorative cloth covers over the speakers when not in use, one of Pink Lady and the other of Blue Boy. He was nice enough to give me the covers too. I am also shocked how well these factory SpeakerLab K are built! These things are better built than my AK-4 Klipschorn's! When I open up the Klipschorn and SpeakerLab K and compare, I am sorry to say this but it's amazing the level of care and detail on quality build these SpeakerLab K has over my new Klipschorn's! Even something as simple has putting all 8 screws in to hold the woofers, Klipsch only puts 4 screws. When I asked Klipsch about this, they said they have always only put 4 screws in for each woofer for the Klipschorn. What? Really? So I just want to help others here that if you get SpeakerLab K speakers and they come with the W1504S woofers, you don't need to replace them if they are working and in good shape. I bought new woofers when I didn't need to after others said I would or they would have no bass. They have bass! The problem is the crossovers, you will have to change them to Klipsch Type crossover or the Mid and Highs are more subdued sounding than the Klipsch sound. As for the bass-bin, these SpeakerLab K bass-bin are every bit as good as my Klipschorn bass-bin! They have bass and do it very well! There is nothing missing with the bass!
  5. Yep, like the original K-510 version before the mumps!
  6. Well, now you can try the K-510 horn brand new if you like for only $49.99 from ZXPC on ebay... looks like he just started carrying them. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-Horn-KLIPSCH-for-K510-Speaker-Cabinet-15-x-9-Bolt-On-2-90-x-60/333537431240?hash=item4da8614ec8:g:8pYAAOSwQNNeYpIy
  7. Just seeing that ZXPC on ebay that carries many different horns is now carrying the Klipsch aftermarket replacement K-510 horn for only $49.99. It looks just like it, design and quality wise. Just wondering if anyone has tried it yet to confirm what quality build is like? Looks like the few who have requested him to carry the K-510 horn has finally gotten their wish now. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-Horn-KLIPSCH-for-K510-Speaker-Cabinet-15-x-9-Bolt-On-2-90-x-60/333537431240?hash=item4da8614ec8:g:8pYAAOSwQNNeYpIy
  8. Wow, I've often thought of how to go about this myself. This really helps and I thank you for taking the time to share this with us all!! Thanks for your well thought out and hard work, Much appreciated!
  9. When you say that: wdecho - The range of an L-pad is not enough to attenuate more than 5 or 6 db alone. Are you referring to the variable L-Pad such as this?: https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-l-pad-attenuator-100w-mono-1-shaft-8-ohm--260-265 These variable L-Pads are often said to only have -6db attenuation but this is untrue. We've used them many times and I've built my own projects using them. They can be used to -10db but after around -11db it starts to effect the sound quality. Eminence uses this same exact model for their variable L-Pad and list it's quality usable to -10db. These L-Pads attenuation are surprisingly accurate if you use this faceplate with them: https://www.parts-express.com/l-pad-knob-and-faceplate-for-3-8-shaft--260-271 It has a peg on the back of the faceplate that fits into the hole of the L-Pad listed above, this accurately aligns the faceplate and L-Pad to give the accurate attenuation you seek, this makes it easy to pick the attenuation you need from the numbers on the dial, if you pick 6, it's right at -6db. This is how we always use the L-Pads because these faceplates make attenuation accurate, without them.... your guessing. Many people don't realize that these faceplates exist or so handy for these L-Pads. I use to have great concerns about the variable L-Pads and how it would effect sound quality if used in place of the Autotransformers. Many people just mimic what they hear about L-Pads over the years and believe it, but they aren't bad or suck out the sound quality like some people say. I've used them instead of the autotransfermers and they've worked out great while keeping just as good sound quality, if you know how to design the crossover.... there shouldn't be a problem. Where the variable L-Pad becomes so great is the exact dead-on tuning it allows on the fly. I no longer have the sound quality concerns I once had after testing, experimenting, and using them. Also you hear some avoid because of complaints about the intermittent noise problem the L-Pad wipers make over time. This can occur when they are stored in areas where they pickup some dampness. The secret to them is to install fiberfill/polyfill around the L-Pad unit and staple in place, this stops it from getting any moisture to the wipers. We have some 40 year old L-Pads in one set of speaker horns and absolutely no noise at all when moving the dial, and I've opened them up and they look as new as the day they were made from the protection of the fiberfill that was put over them 40 years ago. I put fiberfill over all my L-Pads now and I've never had a problem with any intermittent noise at all and installed over 100 variable L-Pads of my own so far.
  10. No matter what anyone else says, my favorite by far are the phenolic both for midrange and tweeters!!! I have both titanium and phenolic speakers and at one time I thought I was in the Titanium camp until I gained more experience with phenolic drivers. Phenolic have a quality level to them that are better to my ears that titanium can't match, and YES you can hear a difference.... anyone saying you can't must not have well trained ears to pickup the difference but for me it's very easy to hear the differences. When a Klipsch Cornwall III speakers came up for sale locally, I quickly acted and bought them at a great price, the guy had them brand new unopened in their original box in black, they had lost their home and was selling everything. The Cornwall III sounded nice but I was disappointed with the smaller mid horn Klipsch decided to use than the original size compared to my old Cornwall speakers, I ended up having to build a DIY to get a bigger horn and I was more than pleased with the results, the phenolic drivers sounded better to me than the titanium!! That's why I went DIY. I sold the Cornwall III after comparing them with the DIY super Cornwall's after about two months or so. The phenolic sound better to my ears, I'm still amazed by their quality sound compared to titanium. Some can't even hear the difference but like I said, it's very easy for me to hear the difference. Phenolic wins to these ears, that's way I wish Klipsch would continue to use phenolic but it's cheaper to manufacturer the titanium these days. Yes, the Cornwall III do sound nice but I suppose I'm the only one who still feels the original Cornwall's with the phenolic drivers sound better!! The Cornwall III is still a fine speaker... I still liked the sound of them... Klipsch makes fine speakers, never heard a bad sounding Klipsch speaker yet!
  11. I own many Klipsch speakers..... Klipschorn, KLF-20, Forte II, Cornwall, RF-7, Chorus II, and DIY Super Cornwalls (similar to CornScala). Klipsch makes some great speakers, I've never heard a bad Klipsch speaker yet. The original RF-7 is still my favorite out of all the RF-7 generations. I've listened to both RF-7 and RF-7II, both at retail dealer and short while at home when my son bought the RF-7II and setup at our house before he moved out. My son and I both preferred the original RF-7 over the RF-7II after we compared them side by side. It's not that we didn't like the RF-7II, we did. It's pleasant, balanced, and very nice sounding and a little more polite sounding than the original RF-7. The original RF-7 is a little more bold and a bit more detailed and we loved that about it. It's not too hot at all, I think those who say it's hot has more to do with the equipment they are using, it is more sensitive to that because it's a very revealing speaker, but used with top quality equipment it sounds great, it's sounds excellent with both movies and music. As many speakers as I have, I still have not been able to let my RF-7 speakers go. The original RF-7 made a huge hit in Germany with it's high detail presentation. Of course you can't get the original RF-7 speakers new anymore so the RF-7 II is the next best thing and certainly goes better with many different equip brands, and they do sound very nice, I was still impressed with them even if I did prefer the original RF-7 but I overall do prefer a more detailed sound. :) or HOT top as some call it.
  12. Sounds nice! I've heard some really like that combo but I've not heard them yet myself.... maybe one day! Even listening to the GM-450PB horn it sounds really nice so I'll leave them in that set of speakers. Now I have 7 crossovers to build for 7 speaker builds.... will see how long this project takes me to complete! It took me a whole month to complete my last build with only able to do it during my free time. Enjoy!
  13. I think it being deeper, (long throw) helps it to be louder and more easily heard throwing the sound more towards you, where as the short throw is less in your face plus the diffraction slot constricts the sound a little more except for the vocals. If your listening position is about 10 to 12 feet and you have sensitive hearing... might be best to go with a short throw horn, if your listening at 15 feet plus, than a long throw might be fine depending on your ears.
  14. 4" Selenium D405 phenolic diaphragm, 2" K-55 (Atlas PD-5VH) phenolic diaphragm, and 1.7" Selenium D220ti titanium diaphragm.
  15. The Pyle Pro PDB952 driver sounds great on the ZXPC horn, did some listening test with it this morning and like it. I think I will use this driver with the ZXPC horn on my upcoming build. Another forum member told me how great the PDB952 sounds, especially for the price, thanks for that tip! I found it locally for $90.00 and a real steal for the quality of this driver!! It's built better than the Selenium D405, much heavier, and all solid heavy metal, no cheap plastic cover like the selenium driver. I really like the sound of Phenolic drivers for Mid and Tweeters over the Titaniums but the Selenium are staying in the CornScalas. The PDB952 is half the cost of the Selenium driver, a great find! Here is the Pyle/ZXPC next to the Selenium/GM450:
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