bensilb Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Hey guys, I haven't been here for a while. I have some questions. Several months ago I went to Tweeter to test drive the RF-5 & 7. the RF-7 were amazing. When I went home, I began to notice that my system sounded harsh when turned up. It was worse on different cds. I have my trebble turned down. Any suggestion (inexpensive)? Or am I getting ready (my ears at least) to upgrade? Anyone else experience harshness from the older Reference (RF-3, RC-3, RS-3)speakers. Thanks ------------------ Sony Trinitron 27" TV Yamaha RX-V1000 JVC HR-S3800 Super VHS VCR Sony DVP-S530D DVD Player Sony TC-WE425 Tape Sony CDP-CE345 Cd player RF-3 Main Monster m1.4 Biwire Cables RC-3 Center RS-3 Rear (Just upgraded the SS-1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensilb Posted April 12, 2002 Author Share Posted April 12, 2002 Never mind... I changed my rear and center to small. What a difference. My room is also very small...I think that has to do with it. I am also stuck with a crappy sony sub!! ------------------ Sony Trinitron 27" TV Yamaha RX-V1000 JVC HR-S3800 Super VHS VCR Sony DVP-S530D DVD Player Sony TC-WE425 Tape Sony CDP-CE345 Cd player RF-3 Main Monster m1.4 Biwire Cables RC-3 Center RS-3 Rear (Just upgraded the SS-1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 ben, have you swallowed the front tower pride & also turned your rf-3 to small? curious how you find that sounds, even w/ the sony sub. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensilb Posted April 12, 2002 Author Share Posted April 12, 2002 I thought about that, but my sub is so crappy. I also am using the very expensive monster biwire. I don't know if that would make a difference. ------------------ Sony Trinitron 27" TV Yamaha RX-V1000 JVC HR-S3800 Super VHS VCR Sony DVP-S530D DVD Player Sony TC-WE425 Tape Sony CDP-CE345 Cd player RF-3 Main Monster m1.4 Biwire Cables RC-3 Center RS-3 Rear (Just upgraded the SS-1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 ben, well all it takes is a flick of the switch. of course then you have to possibly rebalance the levels, but should still give you a good idea. taking that current sapping bass to the rf-3 away from your receiver just may make your mids/highs sound better 2. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensilb Posted April 12, 2002 Author Share Posted April 12, 2002 I just tried it and it seems to sound better. I will turn the volume up tommarow and see if it sounds better. Why is it better to turn all the speakers to small? Is there any time when it would be good to set them at large? ------------------ Sony Trinitron 27" TV Yamaha RX-V1000 JVC HR-S3800 Super VHS VCR Sony DVP-S530D DVD Player Sony TC-WE425 Tape Sony CDP-CE345 Cd player RF-3 Main Monster m1.4 Biwire Cables RC-3 Center RS-3 Rear (Just upgraded the SS-1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 ben, usually works better that way because then the speakers set small and the sub are then not overlapping so much in frequency range coverage. then no bad muddy bass producing things like bass cancelation, standing waves, etc. those can especially get bad when it's happening with the fronts & sub which are usually well in front but not in the same spot. has to do with the room acoustic factors on the bass waves. w/ most fixed crossover a/v receivers these days, it's usually bass to set the fronts large only if you're not using a sub woofer. if you have a sub, it's job is to handle the lower bass and all the lfe, so set all other speaks small imho. of course room, stuff, tastes vary. also using the sub preout on a/v receiver, best to not use the sub's crossover (switch out or turn all the way up). the receiver does the filtering for the low bass (when you set speakers small) and in most cases all LFE channel goes only to the sub preout/sub. if you use the sub's crossover you lose some higher freq LFE. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensilb Posted April 12, 2002 Author Share Posted April 12, 2002 Thank you for the information. I tried them again today very loudly and it sounded great! ------------------ Sony Trinitron 27" TV Yamaha RX-V1000 JVC HR-S3800 Super VHS VCR Sony DVP-S530D DVD Player Sony TC-WE425 Tape Sony CDP-CE345 Cd player RF-3 Main Monster m1.4 Biwire Cables RC-3 Center RS-3 Rear (Just upgraded the SS-1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 boa12 Can you give me some help on this. I don't have it yet, but am going to listen to it. If I like what i hear, I will be buying it. Can you give me suggestions on this as far as what should be set to small or what should be set to large. I know really nothing about all this stuff other than what I have read in this forum over the last few days. Also, how do you turn speakers to small, is that in the receiver? AVR520 Harman Kardon RS-3II surrounds RF-3II floors RC-3II center RSW-10 sub ( I may decide to go with the 12" ) ------------------ m00n ------------------------- System to come: RF-3II Floorstanding RC-3II Center RS-3II Surrounds RSW-10 Subwoofer Harman Kardon AVR 520 Toshiba DVD Samsung 27" Flatscreen This message has been edited by m00n on 04-13-2002 at 09:08 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 moon, yea it's in the receiver & it's processor, like in that HK you're looking at. falls under the term bass management. thx pretty much set the standards for home theater with the use of an 80hz crossover to 5 smaller speakers and a sub woofer. I feel the 80hz is too high and is not ideal with larger tower speakers like the rf-3. but because it's fixed there thanks to thx it's all in most cases you have to work with. by setting speakers to small & hooking the sub up to the HK sub preout, the HK then sends from those channels/speakers the low bass from 80hz on down to the subwoofer at a set rate like say -12db/octave. in other words it filters it off output from those to the sub at a sloping rate. f.e., when your front rf-3 plays something with a frequency of say 50hz it won't be at full-output there, maybe something like 6db less than full-output output there (just an example). it also does the same to the sub in the opposite direction of frequency. at 80hz it filters the sub output from there on up. f.e., for material at 100hz the sub will be playing at say 6db less output than it's full output at 80hz (just an example). it's not set in stone that all speakers should be set to small. some prefer like the fronts set to large. but if the sub & front speakers are going full output in the same range of say 35-80hz, then the liklihood of muddy or lower quality low bass increases due to the room response on the bass waves. the ideal imo & w/ my experience is to have an adjustable crossover on the receiver or processor which better balances the crossover between a good sub and larger like speakers that can do better than a sub at say around 40/50-80/90hz (the 2nd octave of human hearing). lfe is what creates the dilemma w/ using the sub's crossover knob/control & a processor with a high fixed crossover. almost all receivers/processors send all of the lfe channel only to the sub (again they're using thx guidance). so if you try to use the sub's crossover control to better balance it with bigger speakers set large (like say at 50hz), then you cut LFE material (at say 50hz) on up at the sub's crossover slope rate. so overall & again just in general when you're using a receiver/processor with a higher fixed crossover of around 80hz (which is both a high pass for the speakers & a low pass for the sub out/sub) and a sub which is imho best to hook to the sub preout, then most seem to find the best overall result (bass quality) by setting all speakers small (no matter how big they are), sub: yes & not using the sub's crossover control (swiching it off/out or turning it all the way up to 120hz or so). again, since this can be a highly debatable topic, let your ears be the judge. w/ most receivers you can go between large/small with just a flick or 2 on the remote. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandern Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 From the dealers that I have talked to, they say its not worth biwiring the RF-3II's. ------------------ I like my bass like I like my women, deep and tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensilb Posted April 13, 2002 Author Share Posted April 13, 2002 Not true The Biwire made a huge difference! ------------------ Sony Trinitron 27" TV Yamaha RX-V1000 JVC HR-S3800 Super VHS VCR Sony DVP-S530D DVD Player Sony TC-WE425 Tape Sony CDP-CE345 Cd player RF-3 Main Monster m1.4 Biwire Cables RC-3 Center RS-3 Rear (Just upgraded the SS-1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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