Best Setup for La Scalas

[Mongo44]

Greetings to the Klipsch Community!

I am new to the forum and am a complete know-nothing when it comes to home audio, hi-fi stuff! I have always had extreme bad luck when trying to build a "system" that sounds good, much less even works properly. So, in hopes of avoiding further mishap, I thought I'd come to the experts, which is why I'm here.

A little over a year ago, I was given a pair of mint Klipsch La Scalas. They are the LS-BRs and say Type AL on the back of the little circuit panel. Anyway, I have always admired Klipsch speakers and have always wanted some, so I was blown away when these just landed in my lap, free of charge.

Unfortunately, I have a system that is not on par with these speakers, although I believe I could make it work with a little effort. Around ten years ago, I purchased a Harmon/Kardon AVR 5 receiver and have been running some old BOSE 301s. I have no amp but I have a Mirage Subwoofer that I can't even get to work. Which is typical, because, after all, it is brand f-ing new...

I have been looking at my options and simply would like to add a power amp, but am not sure which route to go. I have heard many good things about the class-t amps, like the Trend T10 (I thinks that's what it's called) and a few others. I certainly don't need monstrous power as the room the speakers are in is not all that large. Besides, I understand the La Scalas work better on amps that produce high-quality sound in the first couple watts and that more is less with these extremely efficient speakers.

If anyone could shed some light, I'd certainly appreciate it. I am looking to avoid spending massive amounts of money - just want to get some good clean sound. I don't care about all the surround stuff and home theater baloney. Just want to be able to watch movies and listen to music.

Also, when you respond, please do so as if you're trying to explain this stuff to a 6 year old. Usually, when I read the stuff found here, I have no idea what anyone's talking about. I'm serious. When it comes to this stuff, I'm a total greenhorn. Like, what the F is a crossover? Get the picture?

Thanks a million!

John

[DizRotus]

Welcome,

The following links are not to suggest that you should modify your La Scalas.

Ported La Scalas? http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/616881/ShowPost.aspx

The La Scalas shown there were restored to enable the local high school band leader to replace a dead boom box to play music in the band practice room. I purchased a Harman Kardon 730 receiver on eBay so that he could have sufficient clean power to play the La Scalas loudly and clearly.

Any of the H/K x30 series Twin Power (a separate power transformer for each channel) receivers, if in good condition, would suffice. My personal preference would be a tube amp, but that's much more complicated than you need at this stage of the journey. Therefore, I suggest buying a good used H/K 430, 630, 730 or 930 receiver.

Try to enjoy the process as much as the result.

[Guest " "]

on this website, do a search for the dope from hope papers and read them, they are very helpful.

[Mongo44]

Neil,

Thanks so much! I will look for one. What I've noticed is that my current H/K doesn't do a flip in powering the LSs. I can only "hear" them when it's cranked all the way up. And barely hear, that is...

[Mongo44]

Thanks, Speakerfritz! I'll check 'em out...

[DizRotus]

" . . . my current H/K doesn't do a flip in powering the LSs. I can only "hear" them when it's cranked all the way up. And barely hear, that is...

That's surprising. La Scalas can peel paint with a few clean watts. I doubt it's the amount of power available that's the problem.

The old H/K receivers are not like the more recent H/K products. Other high quality receivers or amps could possibly work as well as, or better than, a vintage H/K x30 series receiver, but I only have personal experience with the vintage H/Ks.

[Mongo44]

By the way, do these receivers have sub capability?

[Mongo44]

It's probably my lack of know-how, and my propensity to do nothing but run into bad luck... Especially in the audio world. In fact, I've spent thousands of dollars, especially in the car audio world, and have yet to have a system actually perform without blowing an amp, shorting out, etc, etc, etc. It's a freaking mind-blowing anamoly.

[DizRotus]

By the way, do these receivers have sub capability?

No. At least not in the manner of modern receivers. But they have good clean power and the financial risk is minimal.

[WMcD]

Welcome to the club, Mongo.

First, will you please tell us where you are located. Perhaps someone from the forum can visit and help you. In ham radio, such a person is called an "Elmer."

My impression that you have some gear there which can be made to work. If you have to turn up the volume to get a small response from the LS, there is something miswired or the controls are not set up properly.

Similarly, you should be able to get the sub working with some investment in time

I can understand the frustration. Buying a new amp may indeed be a fresh start. You'll have some motivation, a new set of instructions, etc. OTOH, you may just be inadvertently falling into the same, whatever, errors that make your present wiring and setting non-working.

Let me suggest that you begin trouble shooting with the most simple of solutions and build up from there. As rankling as it sounds. Go back to basics and build up from there. Experienced troubleshooters start that way. You can't solve everything at once. It is building process.

E.G. Disconnect everything, except the power cord. Get the receiver working so that you can hear FM radio on headphones as a start.

Check that A-B speaker settings (if present) are switched to both (A plus or at least the A. Hook up the speakers to the A outputs per the wiring shown in the manual. If the manual is lost, check the website for the manufacturer to see if you can download a manual.

Then you can add the souce feeds, like from a CD player.

Once you have the LS working, you can proceed to check the sub's hook up wiring.

Wm Gil McD

[Mongo44]

Thanks so much for your advice...

Okay, I just went in and began fooling with it (my expert way of trouble-shooting) and relocated the speakers to a 6-Channel output section on the back of the H/K and they are TREMENDOUSLY different. Let's just say that, yeah, the paint's beginning to peel... Wow!

Still can't get the subwoofer to work. It's a single chord hookup. Don't understand. I've read and re-read the instructions, but I don't know. I'm surprised to say that, after all I've read about La Scalas lacking bass, that the bass presence was certainly far more than I'd expected. Standing close to the speakers cranked-up reminded me of standing a foot or so from the 3" tailpipes on my '66 Chevelle SS. It moves your pants... I can still see the need for a sub as the mids and highs seemed a bit to sustain a much stronger presence.

I will keep working on it. However, I purchased the sub at Best Buy, which is where I tend to just get bent over every time. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the sub really doesn't work. This is no exaggeration, but I conservatively estimate that 85% of the time I buy something from that place that comes in a box, I'm required to make a return trip to find the missing parts not present in the box, or because they just sold me another POS made on the other side of the world. I wish I were the guy who invented those little gold colored "Made In China" stickers - I'd be living next to Bill Gates.

[WMcD]

I'm glad we're making progress. If you don't have the manual you can find it on the web. Or I can send you what I found.

In the interest of file size I've extracted the page showning back panel connections and attach it here.

Regarding connections to your LS. Just to be sure you're correct you should have your speakers attached to the left front and right front terminals shown. Since you're getting good performance I trust you have things correct. Please make sure that the the reds to go reds and the blacks go to blacks (relative to the output terminals on the receiver and the speakers). Since you say you're getting strong bass, you probably have it correct. But check.

We have to turn our attention to the subwoofer connection. As you can see, the RCA jack on the back of the receiver is notated as "3". That is the target on the receiver end.

You did not mention the model number of the Mirage sub. There are manuals on the Mirage website. Please let us know the model so that we can be looking at the same, correct, manual.

You say there is a single connection. I infer that there is an RCA jack there, similar to the one on the back of the receiver. (Not to be insulting, but you want "simple".) So you will need a male to male RCA cord long enough to get from the back of the receiver to your sub. Radio Shack has these. Don't buy anything expensive. IMOH there is no need to. I don't know if they sell anything but budget gold plated connectors and that is okay.

Maybe a 6 foot length (or so) will do it. If you can get the sub in a corner, that will help and so buy a lenght accordingly. There is no reason to worry about the length of the wire at sub frequencies. If it takes 20 feet, go for it.

Anyway, without looking at the correct Mirage manual, I'll assume you just connect the sub to the receiver as indicated and power up the sub. Then you may have to fool with a volume control on the sub to balance the bass from the sub. You may well find great effects depending on the movie or CD you use to experiment.

Let us all here know. You're getting closer to a very respectable system. The AVR and Mirage may serve you well and I don't see a reason to buy much more until you've listened to you're present system for a while.

Best,

WMcD

Page from AVR-5 Manual re rear connections.pdf

[DizRotus]

John,

As usual, Gil's advice is spot on. Get what you have working before spending for new equipment.

[Mongo44]

Wow! I really appreciate your help. I know this might sound cheesey, but you really find the best people in these forums! I'm a member of a few and am always amazed at members' willingness to help. It just seems so contrary to the world - people - outside this url!

Okay, I got the speakers working well. However, I took the subwoofer back, along with the extremely expensive male-to-male cord (9' for $108.00). I really tried everything twice and could get no sound. The Mirage model was "SC8" or something like that. What was odd was that the sub was getting a signal, but no sound was coming out. I worked with all the knobs, etc, etc. I jacked with that dang thing for hours, literally. Got my money back and I can still brag that every trip I take to Best Buy requires a follow-up visit the next day to return the item.

At this point, I'm not sure what to do. I can't imagine that the sub chanel is broken, but I guess anything's possible. I do know that it's never been used, though.

Also, I just found a good deal on some Heresy IIIs and am thinking of adding those. What do you think? I hear they're pretty awesome speakers as well. Also, are the Klipsch Subs pretty decent? I can't imagine they'd be anything but great, but just thought I'd ask. Most accounts I've read on La Scala setups don't include Klipsch subs, but rather some other fancy brand that I've never heard of.

Thank y'all again for your help!

[WMcD]

Thanks for the kind words. But is really a matter of the overall spirit caused by the goodwill started by PWK and carried on by his many fans and the owner and employees of the present corporation.

- - - - - -

An old sermon comes to mind. It is that Heaven and Hell have the same set up.

Everyone is seated around a table of food. The people have restrictive bands on the their elbows (a bit of a mechanical contrivance, but you can think up something similar) so that they can not bring food to their mouths.

In Hell everyone starves in frustration.

In Heaven, they just pick up some food and swing it over the mouth of the person at the next seat.

Sticklers point out that the table must be round, in at least Heaven. Further, there must be a low ceiling so that people in Hell can't just lift the food over their own mouths an drop it in. The mechanics get complicated. Smile.

But you get the theory. It depends on the people.

- - - -

I expect you will find a good sub rewarding. I'd put it ahead of the Heresys unless you're talking about another room.

My thought is that the LS even in an optimal setting will only go down to 50 Hz. These days many recordings have content down to the 30 and 40 Hz range. It adds to the impact and presence of movies, TV,, pop recordings, and even classical.

I'd think you want more than an 8-inch woofer. The bigger the better I say.

People here run many different brands. Given that Klipsch makes good products with good service, and sponsors this happy place, I'd encourage you to buy the biggest Klipsch sub which the budget allows.

- - - -

I see that Klipsch is not making a 15-inch sub any more, IIUC.

There is the theory that two subs are better than one. This is because two (or more) can smooth out the standing wave issue in a room.

Something to consider is a pair of KW-100 at $300 a piece, or something at a bit higher price point.

WMcD

[Mongo44]

Ha! I enjoyed the analogy!

And thanks so much, once again, for the valuable information. I waited to hear your thoughts about the Heresys and have decided to go the sub route, per your advice. The more I thought about it prior to reading your suggestion, the more I figured I really didn't need them. I like the sub idea; I just hope that once I find the right one that it works on the system. I suppose that if it doesn't, then I will just pick up another receiver.

I will let you know how it unfolds.

Thanks!

John

[russ69]

just want to get some good clean sound.

Just use the AVR-5 for now. When you are ready for more, shop around for a nice high quality integrated amp.