la scala hertiage 11 any easy upgrades

[seagull]

Hi Guys

only had my la Scalas which are latest edition ,for a couple of years,

Just wondered if the later model can be improved with any simple upgrade.

I guess crossover related or how about a super tweeter.

Cheers Tref

[Chris A]

Hi Tref,

I do think that there is an introductory part of the answer to your question that involves answering another related question: "What's not exactly right?". Here is a list of issues,IMHO (that can be addressed in multiple ways):

1) Midrange-tweeter crossover (or stated another way...the lack thereof) -

Here is a thread discussing that issue:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/71428/1455398.aspx#1455398

I'd recommend ALK crossovers since they correct this issue. I haven't looked at Bob Crites' crossovers recently - but I bet some of his can correct this situation, too. This change is easily reversible by re-inserting the stock Klipsch crossovers.

2) Time alignment of the tweeter-midrange -

Here is a couple of threads that address that subject:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/22533/183913.aspx#183913

,

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/142598/1474202.aspx#1474202

This is probably the biggest "bang-for-buck" change that costs virtually nothing but results in a great deal of performance improvement. It's an easily reversible change.

3) Lack of low frequencies below ~90 Hz -

Here is part of a FAQ on placing your La Scalas much closer to the corners:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/154887/1631329.aspx#1631329

Note: if you lose imaging performance when moving your speakers to within 18 inches of corners, just place some absorbent material (including but not limited to tapestries, quilts, curtains, and acoustic "fuzz panels") around the front wall and the side walls where the midrange horn mouth is in closest proximity: this reduces early midrange horn reflections that tend to degrade the stereo image. If your room has two good corners, this changes costs nothing - only your time.

If you own La Scala IIs, IIRC the top hat can be disconnected from the bass bins, then the

bass bin turned around 180 degrees to face the corner

. This will provide even more bass extension (like the Khorn bass bin design), at a small cost in bass "punchiness". It's inexpensive and easy to try (if the La Scala II top hat comes off as assumed). It's also is reversible if you change your mind later.

You can also build additional bases onto which your La Scalas can sit that turn them into "ported La Scalas", i.e., djk's modification:

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/65908.aspx?PageIndex=1

. This change is easily reversible.

Cheers,

Chris

[mustang guy]

Do you have LaScalla II's? What exactly do you not like about them? What equipment are you driving them with? That would be a logical place for an upgrade possibility.

Adding a subwoofer would actually be a very good upgrade as well, as the bass falls off a cliff at about 50Hz. Horn loaded subs work nicely with LaScalas.

[Guest " "]

The only upgrade that would have an immediate return on investment (IMO) is to add a subwoofer and use either a passive ot active crossover to direct frequencies below 80hz to the sub and away from the LaScala.

The crossovers are as good as your going to get, the tweeter is optimized for the crossover, and the mid driver has the optimal phase plug in it.

[seagull]

Hi Guys

Yeah thanks for that,

Nothing wrong really having arrived late to these lovely boxes.( Not at all well represented in the Uk ) think it must be the invisible man

They are simply bloody marvelous , just one keeps reading upgrade crossover this etc.so the little upgrade thought creeps in.

My only slight concern is not much punch in the bass end, but I'm using Smart 845's which could be the culprit.

Will be slipping in a Beard p100 soon when some Newish valves arrive, so see if this tightens things up.

Maybe slip that sub in too, might clean it up too.

[Chris A]

The crossovers are as good as your going to get...

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/71428/1455447.aspx#1455447

...IMHO...[]

[mustang guy]

Hi Guys Yeah thanks for that, Nothing wrong really having arrived late to these lovely boxes.( Not at all well represented in the Uk ) think it must be the invisible man They are simply bloody marvelous , just one keeps reading upgrade crossover this etc.so the little upgrade thought creeps in. My only slight concern is not much punch in the bass end, but I'm using Smart 845's which could be the culprit. Will be slipping in a Beard p100 soon when some Newish valves arrive, so see if this tightens things up. Maybe slip that sub in too, might clean it up too.

Many like the Bill Fitzmaurice Table Tuba subwoofer. Plans are $14.95, and the construction is 1/2" Baltic <or Russian birch>. Here is the info on it with a 8" subwoofer driver that you can buy for $38. You can make a pair of them, and power them with a small amp. They are only 120 watt 4 ohm speakers!

The Table Tuba, freestanding, wall and corner placement, loaded with the MCM 55-2421 eight.

[Chris A]

If you've got the room, Bill Fitzmaurice's Tuba series (especially the HT TUBA design) is what I'd use due to the clean lf impulse response of these conventional horns. However, since I don't have that space, I use tapped horn subs (the tested response below is with the sub in half-space on the ground outside - with the microphone 1 meter from the mouth of the sub, no equalization applied):

[Chris A]

This was the test setup:

[Guest " "]

The crossovers are as good as your going to get...

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/71428/1455447.aspx#1455447

...IMHO...

I remember the thread. It was about the AB-2 and AL-3 xover, which the LaScala II does not use. The LaScala II uses a modified version of the AL-4 xover and it may even be called an AL-5. Also, if you read the thread, note that Al talks about using test instruments and uses resistors connected to his crossovers to represent the expect drivers impedance. Not a very realistic way of testing the sound of a crossover. I have a set of AL-4's and had at the same time the ES and universal networks, The ES was an improvement at high volumes, but IMO not a very good ROI on dollars spent.......money would be better spent leaving the AL-4/5 xovers in there and adopting a subwoofer architecture. If we were talking about AL-3 xovers as the thread refers to....than sure...trhere are various xover options out there to consider.

[Chris A]

Thanks for the update. While all my past experience is with LS I, Belles and Khorns, I assumed that the AL-3 crossover design was propagated to the LS II. I'd like to see the design details of the "AL-5", as you call it - FR, phase, etc.

Note that the Belle tri-amping exercise I did (which I adopted in my setup as a center Belle) indicated to me that the sound was dramatically different, but some of that improvement could be from time-aligning the tweeter and midrange, and from the positive effects of tri-amping. I was not expecting that amount of change however.

Dialing the tweeter delay back to 0.0 ms with the active crossover introduced back into the Belle a timbre shift (which was very apparent with the Jubs on either side). Putting the delay back in (at the same time correcting that delay to compensate for the Belle's slightly shorter midrange horn dimension re: La Scala) made the Belle able to integrate with the Jubs from a timbre standpoint.

Chris

[mustang guy]

If you've got the room, Bill Fitzmaurice's Tuba series (especially the HT TUBA design) is what I'd use due to the clean lf impulse response of these conventional horns. However, since I don't have that space, I use tapped horn subs (the tested response below is with the sub in half-space on the ground outside - with the microphone 1 meter from the mouth of the sub, no equalization applied):

Thank you for the link. I was considering Danley DST-10's but didn't go that route due to cost. Instead I built two Tuba HT's. I never saw this thread, or it would have definitely been a consideration! Most tapped horn designs were ill conceived. This one is definitely promising. A side note is that the tapped horn subs are more power demanding than the quarter horn loaded subs, and the drivers themselves are more costly.

[seagull]

Hey you guys are serious users

[mustang guy]

Hey you guys are serious users

yup

[Chris A]

A side note is that the tapped horn subs are more power demanding than the quarter horn loaded subs, and the drivers themselves are more costly.

Note that the total cost of materials (including drivers and Nutrik connectors) for each of my TH subs was ~$240 (each) in 2009.

The cost of the driving these with one Crown XTi-1000 each side was $390 each (new - available used for less). The XTi's have a DSP front end that does electronic crossover, EQ, and time delay. They can easily put out 1 kW into 8 Ohms in "bridge sub" mode: I wire my subs' 4-Ohm drivers in series to avoid running yet another wire to each sub...and it works well. The XTi-1000s can easily run the subs' drivers into their stops at any time using a small fraction of their total available power: I don't even use what's there already.

Chris

[Chris A]

Hey you guys are serious users

The difference between men and boys...is the size of their audio setups. [H] ...and it's still cheaper than a new Harley.

Seriously: every tweak mentioned above is based on first-hand testing and listening experience (except the ported La Scala mod). Some of it, however, goes against "common knowledge".

Chris

[Guest " "]

I assumed that the AL-3 crossover design was propagated to the LS II. I'd like to see the design details of the "AL-5",

here is the ak-4, which is very simular to the AL-4 (resistor differences) and I believe also very simular to the AL-5 (also believe just resistor value differences)

Ak4.pdf

[Chris A]

Thanks!

[BEC]

The bass sections of the AL-4 (or 5) and AK-4 (or 5) are quite a bit different.

Bob Crites

[Guest " "]

The bass sections of the AL-4 (or 5) and AK-4 (or 5) are quite a bit different.

Bob Crites

Hi Bob, got any schematics we can look at for the AL-4 (AK-4 was posted already).

Since the AL/AK-5 is current production.....we should probally stay away from posting schematics for them.