Bowers & Wilkins>Energy>Klipsch?????

[cdub5]

So to start, I am a complete noob to everything involving speakers, amps, sounds systems, etc. I recently upgraded from several very dissapointing "HT in a box systems", to at least now owning an amp and speakers. My amp is an "entry level" amp. Yamaha RX-V61. I purchased this recently with a set of very basic Yamaha speakers. (Budget/wife issues). As a result of this minor upgrade, I have become very interested in upgrading what I currently have. Amp is here to stay for awhile, (again budget) but I am interested in upgrading my speakers. I have done some research, and today I went to a BB magnolia store. I've been very interested in Klipsch, so naturally I asked the sales rep about this specific product. He told me all they had was Energy label, which he said was the "higher end Klipsch" and then he immediately turned to pushing the Bowers & Wilkins. I have to say, the B&W sounded better, although I am always suspicious of sales tactics, and possible "tweeking" to make one higher priced product seem better than a lower priced one, especially at BB. So to end this long story, my questions are, is B&W the "top dog" in this market? Are the higher prices worth it? I know that Energy is now owned by Klipsch, but is it true that it is the "higer end" of Klipsch? Not sure if I'm buying that either. Unfortunately, they didn't have any Klipsch speakers (only Energy) speakers to sample. Currently I'm looking to buy some floor standing speakers, then eventually a center, then rear, then sub, to eventually, over a LONG period of time, faze out my basic Yamaha speakers. If after some miracle, all this is achieved, I will upgrade my amp. Baby steps first. Any info/advice is appreciated.

[SuBXeRo]

Bowers and Wilkins, not Bowers and Martin. B&W is a very good brand of speakers. My dad has some and theyhave a great sound. Are they worth the money? That depends on how discerning your ear is and how pleasurable they are for you, you may be able to justify the cost. As i said though, they are very high quality speakers.

Energy is a canadian brand that was bought by klipsch. They operate as indeoendent businesses run by klipsch, well, now audiovox since they bought them just a few months ago. In any case, audiovox has left the companies as is to maintain their quality of product, which is a good idea. The only thing they are doing is marketing strategy to keep the brands alive and to grow them. Energy is a very good brand and they have a great clean and accurate sound. You cant say they are better than klipsch because they have a different sound and are not horn loaded thus making an apple to orange comparison. One thing to understand is that once you get into the world of HIFI, the quality for the most part is very good and the performance you are looking for in a speaker can determine what brands and lines within those brands you can work with.

Klipsch is a great bang for the bucker performance speaker. And when i say this, i do not suggest that their quality is any less than speakers 10 times their value. Klipsch is just well price and affordable and they have a good selection.

Best buy people very often have no clue the difference between a speaker and a fish tank and its a great thing you came here to consult for help. You have chosen 3 extremely good brands to work with and each could satify your needs, The next step here is to let us know what price range you are working in so we can suggest some speakers for you. Its best if you can hear them in person but a lot of the time you dont have that option.

[cdub5]

Thanks for the quick response. Budget, honestly, is unknown. I know this is not helpful at all, I just don't know yet. I'm in the very beginning stages. Right now, my plan is to focus on tower, then center, than rear, then sub, unless others feel that is a bad stategy. This will unfortunately require me to use Klipsch/B&W/Energy speakers along side some basic Yamaha, but I have no choice. I know that I can't afford to spend $1200ish for just two tower speakers. I've seen deals on line via amazon/ebay for the vf-36 and the rf 52, however very few on these forums, from what I've briefly read, are even discussing these models. Plus some of these deals seem to good to be true. Ex/ vf-36 for $400 a pair via amazon. More than 50% off? Why? Makes me wonder. As you stated, there aren't many options to listen to diffenent speakers/models. I have a video only store with very limited supply, and a BB with very high prices on a limited supply. Don't know where else to check these days since all the smaller stores have closed down. Btw, thanks for correcting me with the Bowers & Martin mistake. Just showing off my noob-ness.

[cornfedksboy]

Welcome to the forum! I can't disagree with anything subxero said, but perhaps I can add a little more info (suprised he didn't already suggest). First of all, your buying strategy is mostly solid. A couple of things...after you get the towers then you should get either a matching center or a sub. There are differing opinions on which is more important, but nearly everyone agrees that towers are first followed by center/sub, and last should be your surrounds. You'll find that a full, clear, deep front sound-stage will trump 5 well placed surround speakers 9 times out of 10.

About Klipsh...because they are horn loaded, they are MUCH more efficient than other comporable speakers. What this means is that you don't need nearly as much power from your amp to run them. The same is not true for B&W which are notoriously difficult to run. You need high-priced amps to get those babies to shine (and they are quite good when you get them going). Energy is kinda in between. What this means for you is that you are likely to get better sound out of Klipsch speakers using your current amp than you will from any other reasonably priced speaker.

About budget. I don't recommend buying from any sales floor unless you have a paticular reason (i.e. great bargain and/or sales staff). They are just too pricey. Look around on-line, and yes, you can get some deals for 50% off or sometimes more. Another good option is to buy used Reference series speakers. Speakers, unlike other electronics, don't really "go bad." They can be used for 10, 20, 50 years or longer with only minor repair. If you are interested in this route, and you give us a budget (for two towers), we can help direct you to some great deals in your area.

[cdub5]

Thanks for all the helpfull info. When it comes to buying used, I am very apprehensive. I'm always worried about getting scammed, and I personally love the option to return a product if I don't like/want it. I realize this could be difficult with an online purchase, however it's basically impossible on a private, used purchase. I also feel more comfortable with a warranty option. I would love it if were able to get two fronts and a center for around $1000 or less. I've seen some deals online, that might make this possible, it just unfortunate I have no way to listen to the speakers before purchase. I live in the east bay of california, about 45min from Oakland, so if you know of anything around here that would help. I'm not completely saying no to used, but what I would like to do, is at least get new front and center, and then maybe go used with rear and sub. Maybe this all wishful thinking, and my wife might leave me over this (haha), but I gotta at least try. Thanks again for all your help

[SuBXeRo]

i was tired last night when i wrote it ahaha, long night!

Here is my issue with buying pieces as you go. It is hard to say when a speaker line or model will be discontinued. even a month can spell trouble when building a system as the piece you want may become unavailable. The most important part of your system to buy at one time is the center and left and right channel and you want to make sure you buy speakers that match properly with one another. Your surrounds should match as well but are considered less of a focus when compared to your front soundstage. A subwoofer can be bought from any brand at any time because it doesnt have to match, it just has to serve the purpose you are seeking.

I would like to suggest the ICON W line to you. The line has been discontinued and everal us got pieces from newegg.com at some close out prices. They still have some pieces available there and i believe its a great system for someone on a budget. My taste in speakers is very wide and as a main home theater system, i like to have a speaker with larger cones and more authority but the ICON W system holds its own.

Here is the part of newegg with the klipsch stuff. You would be best to look at the WF-35, WC-24, WB-14 or WS-24. They sometimes have sales like i got my two wf-35 towers for 300 each, the center for 250 and wb-14's (2 pairs, one for 200 and the other for 250)
http://www.newegg.com/Store/BrandSubCategory.aspx?Brand=1390&SubCategory=494&name=Home-Audio-Speakers

Of the klipsch lines, i think the reference is really my favorite line. I had a pair of heritage speakers and they have a very warm sound with a great expressive midrange. I enjoy my Icon W series as they have a much wider dispersion than the reference line in regards to the horn. The synergy line is also great but i dont like the styling too much and i just dont feel they are as refined as the reference series. The other icon lines at best buy, well, they are probably good but i wouldnt bother buying them as i like the quality and refinement of the refernece series. They did carry the ICOn W line at one point and my fascination with them was the clarity, semi-bright sound and the wider dispersion of the horn.

Just my opinion. Again though, look at vanns.com for great deals. If you arent pressed to buy now, keep your eyes peeled. Also. used klipsch is fantastic stuff. Of the 22 speakers i have owned out of klipsch, the only new speakers i have bought were the ICON W speakers, all of the others were used. Just a consideration to take, check out your local craigslist market!

[cornfedksboy]

Chech out the Icon Ws. They are a fantastic price/performance bargain when on sale and are quite wife friendly in performance.

[ajoker2c]

In the Garage section now.....maybe your close

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/157797.aspx

[cdub5]

First off, thank you everyone for the quick informative responses. New too this forum, and already lovin it.

@SuBXero, is the W-34 a big downgrade from the W-35? Just curious cuz there seems to be a significant price difference. Also,I never mentioned that although I do listen to music often, my main interests for my speakers are for movies and sports.

[cdub5]

What about these? I've also seen the rf-52 II. Is there a real difference between the two? Should I go for these or should I search for a better deal on the rf-52 II's?

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=310345168929&index=0&nav=SEARCH&nid=48283286886

[SuBXeRo]

people have said the wf-34's arent worth it and ive had the rf-0 towers which had 4's in them and they sounded good but just werent worth the money, the fact that i bought the wf-35's is kind of against my rule of not buying speakers with drivers less than 6". The line did surprise me but i do notice its shortcomings with the size difference. The rf-52 line would do you well too! Either or could work for you, i dont have too much direct experience with the rf-52 line so i cant say for sure anything about a comparison. I can say that the rf-62 line is a step up and worth the money.

I'd say try to buy used locally to negate some shipping or buy bstock from a reputable authorized dealer. When you buy audio, cutting corners can really screw yourseld over. Most of us here will tell you that we are still refining out systems and fixing shortcuts that we have taken in the past. Many of us myself included suffer from upgradetitus because we didnt know what we really wanted or we got something cause it was an awesome deal or we just misjudged. Take your time, get your feet wet so that you can make a good decision. Dont forget about wires and stuff too!

[Dysmae]

So much to post:

I work in Magnolia and I can say that yeah, you will get people who really don't know a whole lot, especially during the holiday when they have seasonal people and just don't have time to have proper training on audio since it is the most complicated section of the home theater department. Chances are that you can find people who do know what they are talking about. Look for the shirt and tie, or the maroon Magnolia polo. Most of those people have had proper training. Even still, most of my knowledge I have learned myself from forums like these. At my store, I am by far the most knowledgable and I am pretty much summoned to handle all audio sales and do all audio training. Another thing that you have to realize is that it is the job of the salesman to get you into buying Magnolia audio instead of regular Best Buy audio. That being said, I completely agree with what the salesperson told you, at least regarding what inventory Best Buy carries. Their Energy line in my opinion is much better than the new Klipsch Icon line. The Energy speakers have excellent sound and are very smooth and non fatiguing. Without question, however, the B&W towers are my personal favorite for what Best Buy has without looking at electrostats. The CM9s are top notch, but like someone already stated, they demand a LOT of power. Do I like B&W more than Klipsch though? Hard to say. My Klipsch do things that the B&Ws don't do as well(drums, brass horned instruments-go figure). The B&Ws, however, have a smoother sound and superior midrange.

One brand I am suprised that he didn't mention are the Martin Logan motion series. They are one of my favorite for the price. The Motion 12 towers use to be $750 a tower and are now $399. I absolutely love the motion tweeter that they use and they make for some of the best surround speakers.

As far as the W Icon line for Klipsch, I am a complete owner of them. As a matter of fact, that ad that was posted in this forum is actually my entire set that is for sale. I absolutely love the entire line. The reason I am selling is to fund my endeaver into the new Energy Veritas line which I am currently fixated on. I have both the WF-35s and the WF-34s. I love the 34s, but after getting the 35s, the 34s sound like they are no where near as open sounding as the 35s. That extra bass in the 35s really opens up with a wall of sound. I have been using the 34s as surrounds and it sounds awesome. It is also worth mention that I like the Klipsch W Icon line more than I like the CF Energy line.

[SuBXeRo]

I would love to hear the veritas line l, just sucks that almost nobody carries them. I dont think id mess with the cf line, i like the veritas look more though. Its rough how much aesthetics come into play ajd how it can make or break a speaker but then again, looks are subjective

[Dysmae]

Yeah I can't get over how gorgeous the veritas speakers are. All the reviews I've read are very encouraging too. Still having some of the brightness that klipsch gives you with that smooth and warm detail and superior midrange that the Kevlar woofers give you like B&W speakers. The Cf line sounds great, but have cheap looking cabinets.

[cdub5]

So it looks as though everywhere is now out of stock on the icon w 34/35 line. I've been looking at the RF-52, RF52 II, RF62II, and the RF82. Some decent deals on these at NewEgg, and another site Accousticsounddesign.com. Anyone used the later? Any feedback? Thoughts and opinions on these? Accousticssounddesign has this deal: I am concered about the open box part. should I be?

http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=2024&sc=57

Anyway, since these will be my first "big boy" speakers, and I'm upgrading from a basic set of small yamaha HT speakers, are the 82's a little overkill? Also, earlier in this thread I was told the RF-62 are worth the price difference over RF-52, just looking for some additional opinions. The description for the 62's states that they are meant for filling a "large room." The room for my future speakers, is about 20x16ish, with 15ft high ceilings, and it's not an enclosed room. It's kind of a townhouse, where the tv room and dining room are sort of one big connected room, with a half wall in between. My wife is 100% against this, so when I eventually sell her on this, and I will (fingers crossed) I'm just worried speakers will show up that are way to big, not just in actual size, but in power. Don't get me wrong, I want my house to shake a little with my movies and such, I just don't want to pay more for something that would be too much for where they're going. Eventually I plan to get better speakers for up front, and move whatever I get now to the back. This plan, however, could take me 10 years for all I know.

<edit> Sorry if my link is not working. Can't seem to make that work all the time

[SuBXeRo]

my listening area has been 10' x 10' and i had rf-3's and rf-5's and then rf-7's in that space at different times. I now have a 20' x 20' with 15' high cathedral ceilings and the 7's are good in that room. IMO, the reference series, anything with 8's in them are really solid performers. Yeah, so what, they have a high power capability, it doesnt mean you are going to use it all. its better that the speakers have the capabilities because when you hear them peter out, its soooo disappointing. The 82's arent even big to me anymore, ive become so numb to speaker size. Yes they are big first time around and you say to yourself "wtf did i just do". You get used to the size and you soon see the benefits of the size of the soundstage you receiver, the depth of bass and their ability to perform once things get pounding. Do they have to pound? Nah, just tune the crossover on the receiver and that'll fix it!

Of my speaker career, the only challenging speakers i have had to place are the rf-7's and many will say the same thing.

start of with a rocking front stage man!

[cdub5]

my listening area has been 10' x 10' and i had rf-3's and rf-5's and then rf-7's in that space at different times. I now have a 20' x 20' with 15' high cathedral ceilings and the 7's are good in that room. IMO, the reference series, anything with 8's in them are really solid performers. Yeah, so what, they have a high power capability, it doesnt mean you are going to use it all. its better that the speakers have the capabilities because when you hear them peter out, its soooo disappointing. The 82's arent even big to me anymore, ive become so numb to speaker size. Yes they are big first time around and you say to yourself "wtf did i just do". You get used to the size and you soon see the benefits of the size of the soundstage you receiver, the depth of bass and their ability to perform once things get pounding. Do they have to pound? Nah, just tune the crossover on the receiver and that'll fix it!

Of my speaker career, the only challenging speakers i have had to place are the rf-7's and many will say the same thing.

start of with a rocking front stage man!

I hear what your saying, and I'd love to go big right away, however that damn $/budget gets in the way. I just had an online chat with a guy from sounddistributors.com and he quoted me at $525/pair of rf-52ii 799/pair rf62ii and 925/pair of rf 82ii. All seem to very good prices, it's just $400 less for the 52's is intriguing. The price for the 62's makes me think that's not worth it, cuz I would think it's worth spending the extra $125 to get the 82's. I would love to get a center with these as well, and this might only be possible if I go for the 52's. All this being said, are the 52's such a substantial drop off that I should just avoid them all together and shoot for the 62's or 82's and probably not get a center at the moment?

[SuBXeRo]

you are just dealing with 2 different animals really. how far do you sit from your tv?

[cdub5]

In terms of how far from the TV, it varies seat to seat, but mainly 7-12 ish feet away. I do eventually want to move to a bigger place, so "future proofing"comes onto play.

[SuBXeRo]

you room wold be great for the rf-82's especially for future proofing. The rf-62's would work great too but at the price you pay, its worth it to splurge for the 82's. You are in a tough spot to make a decision. Its the type of committment you make that in theory should last a very long time, probably way longer than youd think proided you take care of them. I know its hard to fight impulse sometimes, but not settling can make you really happy in the end.