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I got the HSU VTF-3 subwoofer... my thoughts (The_Ears, lis ça!)


fire pinch
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-=I updated often this tread cuz I did some mistakes... ahah too much tired :S=-

I got my HSU VTF-3 two days ago and im not blew away by its output capability. My Paradigm PS-1000 hitted harder and had more impact (I have it now and I can compare). But in other way, the VTF-3 can go so much lower with authority than my PS-1000 and when set in max extension mode, my wooden floor knows how to rattle Wink.gif

I went to a Paradigm dealer today and I brang my VTF-3 with me :D

The VTF-3 is simply the most accurate and the most beautifull sounding sub I have ever heard. But notice here that I didnt listen all "The_Ears" subwoowers... I heard some Energy, Klispch KSW, B&W and Paradigm subs. I even find that the VTF-3 sounds better than any Paradigm subwoofer except the Servo-15, which sounds perhaps more accurate a bit for my ears but less musical. In overall, the VTF-3 for my ears is better than all Paradigm subwoofer musically.

Now, if I come back on the VTF-3 output capability. Im gonna compare it (subjectively unfortunately) only against the PS-1000 v.3, PW-2200, Servo-15.

Well, the PS-1000 has more high punchy bass than the VTF-3 (>40 Hz) but is less powerfull and by a great margin down to 16 Hz. The VTF-3 is really good in LOOOW bass. Dont talk about the PS-1000 accuracy on music, I dont see where it is lol!

And now, the PW-2200. I didnt hear it side by side with the VTF-3 unfortunately like I did with the PS-1000 and the Servo-15. But I remember that the VTF-3 can be compared greatly to a PW-2200. About the same output capability and a comparable sound but the VTF-3 can go again lower than the PW-2200 and by a good margin. So the PW-2200 and the VTF-3 is less punchy than the PS-1000. The VTF-3 is probably a bit punchier than the PW-2200.

The Servo-15. This is a different story. When I first listened to it side by side with my VTF-3, I was so impressed by its very clean and accurate bass. Like The_Ears told us before, the Servo-15 is really a true clean bass subwoofer. It can goes very low powerfully and has a little bit less distortion than my VTF-3. Still the VTF-3 is really powerfull between 16-35 Hz, like I said below and it is louder than the Servo-15 definitively in that frequency range (16-35 Hz).

So in overall, what do I have to say? The VTF-3 is a very great unit. A good audiophile piece! But (READ THIS CAREFULLY VERY IMPORTANT !!!) the VTF-3 I have doesnt satisfy me for the moment. I hear some bloating in high kick drum songs or during techno songs. Also, it has not enough the PS-1000 punch even if my walls and other rooms rattle because of the low bass energy! I dont just want LOOOW bass... I want PUCNH too! I tried all possible placements and crossover but I still get that "bloating" or "flapped" sounds from the woofer during a high impact. Moreover, I dunno if im on crack but I see the woofer moving backward when it "boom boom boom boom" instead of going forward. Pretty strange uh? Well, I think that my VTF-3 might be damaged during the shipping or not well phased. This is possible.. who knows?

Other than that, this is a good sounding sub, powerfull, more punchy than the Servo-15 and maybe a bit more than the PW-2200 but less than the PS-1000. It sounds tighter, more accurate, more musicall, more deep than any of the Paradigm subs Ive ever heard except the Servo-15 which come very close in sound quality (the bass is somewhere a bit cleaner but less details).

I wrote all this without reading it again... im a bit lazy today cuz I worked hard during the last night im very tired!!! But if you have questions or if you wanna help me with the problem I have with my VTF-3 (that bloating sound during high kick drum or boom boom techno songs) dont hesitate :D Im gonna talk to HSU about this problem... it happens even if the woofer is not at its maximum of excursion... pretty strange!

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MY RESULTS IN A 1470 CUBIC FT ROOM:

P.S.: I cranked the volume at the maximum so distortion were there but I stop when I began to hear the voice coil slapping LOL! Without audible distortion, delete maybe 2-3 dB.

HSU VTF-3 (Crossovered @ 90 Hz, mains off)

Max output mode

80 Hz 101.5 dB

63 Hz 103.5 dB

50 Hz 113.5 dB

40 Hz 115.5 dB

31.5 109 dB

25 Hz 107 dB

20 Hz 101.5 dB

16 Hz 96.5 dB

Max extension mode

80 Hz 97.5 dB

63 Hz 101.5 dB

50 Hz 111.5 dB

40 Hz 113.5 dB

31.5 109 dB

25 Hz 107 dB

20 Hz 106.5 dB

16 Hz 105.5 dB

Paradigm PS-1000 (Crossovered @ 90 Hz, mains off)

80 Hz 98.5 dB

63 Hz 108.5 dB

50 Hz 114.5 dB

40 Hz 112.5 dB

31.5 104 dB

25 Hz 100 dB

20 Hz 96.5 dB

16 Hz barely audible!

Comments: The VTF-3 is still very strong when I test it and I dont hear that cone flapping I hear during hard kick drum songs or techno songs. When I play bass tests, this is the same thing, I dont hear too much the woofer flapping. The PS-1000 is a very great performer considering that it cost almost 3 times less than what I paid for the VTF-3. The PS-1000 is still very poor in musicallity and accuracy :S

LOOK AT THE RESULTS <25 Hz IN MAX EXTENSION MODE! You know why now I told u before that my floor and walls litterally shake and u know also that I didnt exagerate when I said that!

This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-30-2002 at 05:39 PM

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L'Oreille a lue

The VTF3 besting the PW2200 is not a big shock,I know the HSU VTF3 is the real deal(besides SVS).

The Servo15 and Velodyne HGS subs are the cleanest but they dont pack the punch of great non servo controlled subs.The accelerometers placed on the voice coild and the current servo technology used seems to compress peaks a bit.

The PS1000 and 1200 are anything but musical,these are greatHT bada bing bada boum subs.I had the PS800 and 1000,I was quite pleased at the time,when I heard the Servo15 I quickly found out how great a sub can be.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

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I think I will stay away from this thread, it's to Quebec for meSmile.gif

Just start some french only topics!!!

Just keep getting subs until you are happy!

------------------

Receiver: Sony STR-DE675

CD player: Sony CDP-CX300

Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U

Speakers: JBL HLS-610

Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8

Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt

Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs

Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo!

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The_Ears,

In fact, MY VTF-3 and I say MY Vtf-3 doesnt really BEAT the PW-2200 in output and I really dunno why! Its kinda very strange... ULTRA strange. My room is a 1470 cubic ft room so I should get more than 110 dB with that sub... EASILY. But hell, after 105 dB, I hear the woofer fluttering or flapping, well a strange sound! It happens often during kick drum or in techno/dance/trance songs. Im really sad to see that this VTF-3 I have now doesnt satisfy me for the moment (output). Well im MORE than satisfied with its sound quality!

Seb,

Do you think that when the sub will be broken-in, I will have like 3 or 4 more dB? Or even more? Cuz now, getting maximum, and big maximum 110 dB isnt even normal I think. I can get 113-114 dB with my PS-1000 (The_Ears, the PS-1000 isnt the v.1 or 2, this is the v.3 with the 175W RMS amp instead of the 100 or 120W). So what the heck?

The phase control doesnt seem to help!

This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-29-2002 at 11:54 PM

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PinceFeu(j'pense que c'est ca) Smile.gif

"Do you think that when the sub will be broken-in, I will have like 3 or 4 more dB? Or even more?"

All I can say is ...

L'Institut Linguistique Two Five Four Six O One One

cwm27.gif

Well you wont get over 3dB more output,unless the sub driver was in the freezer and now the sourround and spider are heated and as flexible as bubble gum.

You should get a dB to two...maybe three tops more after the sub is broken in fully.

My experience with various brands at various price points tells me this.

Ken its a Quebecker thread! Vive le roi

L'Oreille Maintenant LesOreilles(my Frech sig.)

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Wow The_Ears!! Firepinch is pinch en feu sti en français! heeheh :D :D :D

Well im poor in english so after all, maybe firepinch just doesnt mean pinch en feu! You certainly guessed that!

The fact that the VTF-3 doesnt please me completely is in overall because of the price I paid for : 1600$CAN Eek.gif: I can get a Paradigm PW-2200 for two times less here and it performs very well against the VTF-3. But notice that I didnt say that the VTF-3 is a bad sub... In USA, the VTF-3 and SVS subs are for sure the best bargains! But here in Canada, with all these duties charge and UPS brokerage fees, these subs come here overpriced. Well I wanted to try this VTF-3, to many people tell in the forums that this is an awesome subs. This is true. It can rocks my wooden floor and my walls, even the kitchen downstairs!!! :D But for 1600$CAN that sub is just not enough for the price. If only I payed 1200 for it, it would be a greater deal.

The_Ears,

Since we live in the same location, what sub would u recommand for me? The best value please! I think that u begin to know me and Im a very hungry bass eater! I would like to have 115-120 dB in my 1470 cubic ft room if possible. Should the SUNFIRE or PARADIGM my best sub purchase? Does the Sunfire (any of them) have more output than a PW-2200 or a Servo-15 >40Hz and <40Hz? Does the Sunfire sounds better than a PW-2200 or a Servo-15? Well I just want ur thoughts but anyway, im gonna listen to a Sunfire this week certainly (I will go at Audiolight, Québec)

And also, what about the Klipsch RSW series. Best value here in Quebec compared to Paradigm or Sunfire?

I want BIG slam + LOOWWW earthquake bass (16-35 Hz)+good accuracy/musical+below 2000$

TELL ME MORE :D you are so near me so tell me tell me!

Thank you :D

This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-30-2002 at 11:39 AM

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Oh and I forgot to say this to you The_Ears!

I want a sub also which can play the high bass notes (60-100 Hz) wonderfully. U will certainly laugh of that and say that I should get a sub coupled with a tweeter in a box but yeah, the VTF-3 is top performer on this. When the dealer played a bass test with some guitar and voices, I didnt hear the guitar and the voice with the Servo-15 and I couldnt too with the PS-1000. With the VTF-3 I could hear that. The VTF-3 never stop to impress me with its sound quality and its definition between 16-100 Hz. It blends so well and so awesomely with my Paradigm Monitor 9. If possible, I would like to have a Paradigm, Sunfire or a Klipsch RSW which is capable of doing that.

And for all of you, when I said that the woofer was backward firing instead of forward firing, well I hallucinated. This is not true, and I think finally that the woofer is in good shape.

This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-30-2002 at 12:38 PM

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quote:

Originally posted by boa12:

fire, my phil is a sub woofer should be a SUBwoofer. that handle mostly the 1st octave (20-40hz). then w/ some hard hitting 2nd octave mains (& others), an adjustable crossover in the processor, & some highpower

to the other speaks in addition to the sub, you have it all.
cwm35.gif


Yes but my VTF-3 sounds better than my Paradigm Monitor 9 in 80-100 Hz bass... I dunno why; to my ears, the 80-100 Hz VTF-3 bass is more warm, more beautifull, more present, more envelopping.

This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-30-2002 at 12:48 PM

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Yeah this is true. If I could have more power to my mains, I wouldnt need probably that punch from the subwoofer. I have only 70W/channel for my Monitor9. NOT enought for sure. Anyway, im gonna buy a new amp this summer so Im in a hurry to see what those Monitor9 can do in mid-bass punch. I dunno if they will be more punchy althought...

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fire, yes its the woofs in the speaks that soak up the most power & need more for the better results. seemed to work for me to seek an amp w/ higher current capac/reserves (75 amps per 7 channels) & w/ a higher damping factor (400 or more adequate).

when looking at the power specs, the ideal are those measured from 20-20khz w/ all channels driven at the same loads. the ideal there would be a doubling at 4 ohms impedance. f.e., 200W at 8ohms, 400W at 4ohms. course the quality amps that can do that tend to cost more (like krell, etc.).

------------------

My Home Systems Page

This message has been edited by boa12 on 06-30-2002 at 01:41 PM

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I posted my results!!! Ah and finally, forgot about what I said for the woofer. It really moves backward instead of forward during boom boom or kick drum. I dont hallucinate, I just put my finger at ,lets say, 3 mm in front of the woofer and then I put a techno song and I felt a little the woofer knocking in my finger but in fact, the woofer excursion was huge. Wow what a long sentence! lol! Firepinch's home made english sentence :D

This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-30-2002 at 03:44 PM

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as I mentioned, isn't the phase control supposed to correct just that?

and for that price, since you could get TWO PW-2200, which would most likely best the VTF-3, the price/performance ratio really doesn't look too good...

------------------

http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment

http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection

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Desole PinceFeu cwm3.gif

I was busy,you know I dont live online like Deluxe Answering Machine Justin Credible.

The best value,the best value in Canada or ...Quebec is the Paradigm PW2200,you can get two for under $1600!And two will best the VTF-3.

Now Sunfire subwoofers are expensive in Canada,the Sunfire Signature is an awesome sub,but its over $3000 Canadian!

cwm8.gif

The Signature compared side by side with the Servo-15 produced room shaking bass the Servo could NOT match!

At 30Hz the Signature has few peers and consider its size its an almost miracle.117dB at 31.5Hz!Now this is power from a 13" cube(of a bit larger as the twin active/passive drivers stick an inch out on each side)

Well and the Si=unfires are known to be lousy above 60Hz!From the Junior to the Sig. passing by the Carver Knight Shadow they all roll off above 60Hz pretty fast.

Since you like a tweetish subwoofer(with 20Khz upper limit LOL)the Sunfire is not for you.And besides you must have more green(de billets bruns)to get one.

Revel B15 too expensive for ya,it $5000 in Canada!Velodyne HGS also expensive in Canada,$2500 and up.The HGS18 goint for $5000 CAN! BURP Aerial Acoustics SW12,forget about it,its over $8000 Canadian BUUURRRPPPPP Only for filthy rich audiophiles or middle class lunatics like me. Wink.gif

What else well SVS a good bit less costly,and great performance.Check SVS out and when you browse their site send SVS guys an email,they will tell you how much shipped.You may find your sub there.

In the end its SVS or Paradigm(PW2200),I think.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

This message has been edited by TheEAR on 07-01-2002 at 10:25 AM

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Pincefeu! hahahaha!!! cwm27.gifcwm27.gifcwm27.gif

C'est pinch en feu! En tout cas... cwm35.gif

So the PW-2200 would be a great choice! Im gonna listen to one soon and I hope that it will give me the tweeter upper bass I want! Biggrin.gif Well, I dont want that much of upper bass but just enough to make it somewhere more musical! And by seeing my test results, how many dB do you think I can get with a PW-2200? Just gimme me an idea... I will like to have the same authority down to lets say 25 Hz than the VTF-3 (well maybe the PW-2200 will not be able to do that.. but for the money?)

This message has been edited by fire pinch on 07-01-2002 at 11:19 AM

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