m00n Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 Boa, or anyone for that matter. Ok, I am still trying to figure it all out.... On the back of my receiver I have a full set of pre-outs for the fronts, center, surrounds. All I need to do is to get an amp. So, what I am thinking about here is because my theater is long and narrow, I want to add a second set of surrounds. This would involve hooking an amp up to the surround pre outs right? This would give me the EXACT same signal that my existing surrounds have right? Ok, now then if that all is good and works the way I think, would a second pair of RS-7's be ok to use? Or would a diffent speaker be better? I know this sounds expensive, but, if I was to go with a second set of surround speakers, I have considered running all RC7's. Then, at a later time I could add two more RC7's for DTS ES.... Now, if I am not mistaken, that would satisfy Horns idea of having all the speakers be the same with the exception of my RF7's (wont be ridding myself of those) However, lets get back to the idea of a second set of RS-7's... I was told by someone that it may not be good to have 4 RS7's in the room becuase of thier design. It would spray to much sound to the front and back. So, I thought to get arround this delima, rather than mount the RS-7s horizontally as they were designed, how about mounting them vertically where the sound sprays up and down rather that from front to back? Am I making since or do I sound like an idiot? ------------------ m00nsCinema to be the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Harman Kardon DVD-50(DD, DTS) VIDEO: InFocus ScreenPlay DLP Projector COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOX with Monster cable for that 5.1 Dolby Digitial surroundc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 m00n, you idiot! Just kidding!! Remember Sound & Vision's review of the Reference speakers using two pair of RS-7's recently? Another thing, you would have no adjustment of the different pairs of surrounds in the setup you propose. Good luck anyway! Keith OOPS! Forgot to uncheck the sig. Hmmm..Need to update that. This message has been edited by talktoKeith on 09-18-2002 at 12:18 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 18, 2002 Author Share Posted September 18, 2002 Keith... No, I don't recall the review. Do you have a link? Also, the amp I want is the Harman Kardon PA4000 . It has volume level controls on the back. ------------------ m00nsCinema to be the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Harman Kardon DVD-50(DD, DTS) VIDEO: InFocus ScreenPlay DLP Projector COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOX with Monster cable for that 5.1 Dolby Digitial surroundc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 m00n, if i remember, your HK is 7.1 but only has amp for 5 channels. so you're talking about rear surrounds, not a second set of surrounds. big dif there. or are you talking adding a 2nd pair of side surrounds in addition to the rear surrounds? that is have 4 side surrounds & 2 rear surrounds? i'm not against using rs-7 for the side surround & for a long room sounds like another set of rs-7 would be best. but for the rear surrounds on the narrow wall i think rc-7 would be best. but its hard to say exactly not being there & w/ your dif tastes, etc. as for that amp, looks like it'll drive 8 speaks @ "45W" but can be bridged to drive fewer speaks at more power. did you ever find out if your HK can be designated so that its amps drive the rear surround when you use an external for the fronts? like the denon 4800 & such can do. maybe you need to get a denon 4802 or 5803. anyway, w/ that amp, you may want to do some bridging. but it depends what flexibility the HK offers on designating its amp & driving certain channels. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 18, 2002 Author Share Posted September 18, 2002 Boa.... Ya, my intent was to have the second set as "SIDE" surrounds "NOT REAR". I was thinking that they would have the exact same signal as the existing two surrounds. As far as you question: quote: did you ever find out if your HK can be designated so that its amps drive the rear surround when you use an external for the fronts? like the denon 4800 & such can do. maybe you need to get a denon 4802 or 5803. I have not. I sent an email to the H/K guy that I always talk to asking that he call me on lunch. I will ask him about it though. Oh and I already have my eye on my next receiver Harman Kardon AVR 8000. . ------------------ m00nsCinema to be the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Harman Kardon DVD-50(DD, DTS) VIDEO: InFocus ScreenPlay DLP Projector COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOX with Monster cable for that 5.1 Dolby Digitial surroundc> f> This message has been edited by m00n on 09-18-2002 at 01:32 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 yes the 2 pair of side surrounds would have the same signal & settings such as distance/delay, etc. unless your hk has like the denon w/ a, b, a+b surround & you can set the delays different for a & b surrounds. don't think it does though. so if you use 2 sets of rs-7 for side surround you may want placement more toward room center on the side wall. best thing would be to try one pair of rs-7 more directly to your side or slightly behind along w/ the rc-7 as rear surround 60 degrees off axis behind your sweet spot, then see if you even need a 2nd set of side surround. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 18, 2002 Author Share Posted September 18, 2002 Ya, I have thought about that Boa.... Rather than a second set of surrounds on the side, trying a rear center. Which then brings up more confusion. My H/K has DTS ES matrixed and discrete. If I decided NOT to go with 2 more side surrounds, wouldn't I want 2 rears to support DTS ES discrete? That being asked.... What about other formats such as DTS 5.1 and Dolby Digital 5.1? Would those formats even be able to make use of the extra speakers, or would they be sitting there collecting dust? ------------------ m00nsCinema to be the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Harman Kardon DVD-50(DD, DTS) VIDEO: InFocus ScreenPlay DLP Projector COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOX with Monster cable for that 5.1 Dolby Digitial surroundc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 to begin with, you want to definitely go w/ rear surround over a 2nd set of side surround. as you said, you need those to take advantage of any 6.1 discrete (dts) or matrix (dts & dolby ex) formats. speaks hooked up to your rear surround will give you a different signal than side surrounds & should really add to the effects. i'm pretty sure, like mine, your processor will even spit out a matrixed signal to the rear surround even for 5.1, dolby 2.0/surround/prologic & stereo, if you use the right settings & modes. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 & another thing, the rear surround should have different settings such as level, delay, etc., than the surround. definitely get an amp & add the rear surround as the next step after 1 pair of surround. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 18, 2002 Author Share Posted September 18, 2002 Boa... Ok I will take your advice on this and get my rear surrounds and skip any side surrounds. And use two RC-7's over two RS-7's... Is there anyway to take the rear surround signales ( left and right ) and connect them to 1 rear speaker such that I would have one RC-7 rather than two? Or is that a no no? ------------------ m00nsCinema to be the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Harman Kardon DVD-50(DD, DTS) VIDEO: InFocus ScreenPlay DLP Projector COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOX with Monster cable for that 5.1 Dolby Digitial surroundc> f> This message has been edited by m00n on 09-18-2002 at 02:47 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 "and skip any side surrounds." well i hope you meant you'll have 1 pair of side surrounds, as well as one or two rear surround. sure you can use just 1 rear surround center. some require you to hook it up to a specific preout (usually the left) & when you set up the speakers you designate you have just one rear surround. the processor then takes it from there. that's what i'm doing. one rear surround center (C-7) along w/ a pair of surround (cornwalls). ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 as for that amp, if you get it, i'd bridge it to the max to drive your rf-7 to the point of leaving 1 or two amp channels to drive the rear surround. that is if you can't designate the amp in the hk. if you can do that, then again bridge it to the max for the rf-7 & use the hk amp to drive the rear surround. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 18, 2002 Author Share Posted September 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by boa12: "and skip any side surrounds." well i hope you meant you'll have 1 pair of side surrounds, as well as one or two rear surround. Of course... I have already one existing set of surrounds. Ok then.... That's the game plan. one new HK/PA4000 amp two new RC7's for my rears one new RSW-15 for more megga boom. Once I have these toys, I will be set. ------------------ m00nsCinema to be the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Harman Kardon DVD-50(DD, DTS) VIDEO: InFocus ScreenPlay DLP Projector COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOX with Monster cable for that 5.1 Dolby Digitial surroundc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 actually for that amp, this looks best: (Bridged Mode 1): 2 x 100 Watts plus 4 x 45 watts @ 8 ohms, 20Hz 20kHz, <0.07% THD, all channels driven hook the rf-7 to the 2X100W, & use the 4 X 45 watts to drive the front center, 2 surround & a single rear surround, or 2 rear surround & front center w/ a channel left empty. you should be able to see on the back of your HK if it can designate its amps. when you look at the fronts speaker terminals, it should say somewhere rear surround or rear effects. like "fronts/rear effects" by the terminals. if it doesn't say anything around the terminals about "rear surround, effects" or such, then it probably doesn't allow for it as it doesn't have the connections for rear surrounds. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 18, 2002 Author Share Posted September 18, 2002 Boa, you think 45 watts is enough power to push the RC7's? ------------------ m00nsCinema to be m00ns current toys FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Harman Kardon DVD-50(DD, DTS) VIDEO: InFocus ScreenPlay DLP Projector COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOX with Monster cable for that 5.1 Dolby Digitial surroundc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 moon, sure its enough. i'm assuming the power amp has more actual power than your receiver. though its hard to say. i checked & it looks like HK is trying to sell amps - they don't put that amp designation in the receiver. so then you buy their 8000 for the added rear surrounds. myself, i'd get a quality higher power amp that's more like 200W X 7 so all channels match. then down the road get a seperate pre/pro to go w/ THAT. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 18, 2002 Author Share Posted September 18, 2002 Ya, looking at it, I have no idea how you would even know how to hook all this up. Knowing that the AVR520 had 5 pre-amp outs, I would have thought there were 5 pre-amp inputs to the back of the PA4000. ------------------ m00nsCinema to be m00ns current toys FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Harman Kardon DVD-50(DD, DTS) VIDEO: InFocus ScreenPlay DLP Projector COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOX with Monster cable for that 5.1 Dolby Digitial surroundc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 I have to add in my four cents for four rear surround speakers. I also would like to see at least one pair of the RF7's in the rear for the full range sound. Why not add apair of the RF7's to go along with the RS7's? I would put a pair of the RF7's in the rear surround position and the RS7's on the side walls if the room is really long, or above the RF7's aimed in a different direction for more coverage. I run four rear surrounds. One pair of Jensen Imperial cabinets loaded with Klipschorn drivers and networks. The Imperials were chosen over the Klipschorns because they are not so corner dependent. They are about four to five feet behind the main seating and backed up to the side walls. They are aimed across the back of the room towards each other and slightly towards the main seating. The Imperials are powered by the Yamaha receiver which has all its channels set to large. My second pair of rear surrounds are LaScalas and they sit upside down on top of the Imperials. The LaScalas are aimed more down the side walls towards the front of the room and the tv. This seems to add alot more ambience and better coverage for the cheap seats.The LaScalas are set to large, since the Yamaha has everything set that way.BUT, the LaScalas are hooked up to the Yamahas rear pre-outs which go to Outlaws (ICBM) bass manager which in turn changes the LaScalas crossover setting to 60HZ before the outlaw passes the signal onto the power amp and subwoofer. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 m00n, your 520 has 8 preouts - 7 speakers & 1 sub. great points by Q. that icbm is great for bass mgmt when you add a power amp &/or dvd-audio player. & i can't argue w/ large rears. moon, think about the rf-7 for rear surround. you could also look at this amp http://www.harmankardon.com/product_detail.asp?cat=AMP&ser=∏=PA%202000&sType=C to bridge for just the rear rf-7 (100WX2), or use it to drive just the surrounds & rear surround (45Wx4) if you go w/ rc-7 there. that takes a load off your hk 520 to still drive your rf-7/rc-7 fronts/center. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 09-18-2002 at 07:24 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted September 18, 2002 Author Share Posted September 18, 2002 My lord... RF7s for the rears... Don't you think that's a bit overkill? It seams like a lot of money to spend on speakers that won't receive as much of a signal as the front and center and surrounds. Boa. I had thought about the PA2000. But eventually I will be builing a riser floor out in my theater. I will then use the exrtra outputs on the amp to power some transducers. ------------------ m00nsCinema to be m00ns current toys FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Harman Kardon DVD-50(DD, DTS) VIDEO: InFocus ScreenPlay DLP Projector COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOX with Monster cable for that 5.1 Dolby Digitial surroundc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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