DVD-A/SACD 6-channel switching question

[BBB]

Im glad to help you anytime Fini. I think we were all trying to find solutions to your questions while not going overboard and have you spend money on equipment that very well be outdated next year. One never knows. There are answers to most audio problems out there but at what cost? Everyones situation is unique as evidenced by listing your equipment and stating what you are trying to accomplish. In a way you and I are wrong if we think the manufacturers dont have it together. LOL. They got it together alright. For themselves. A long time a go two of the largest department stores in N.Y.C. had a rivalry going on for years. Every big holiday they both would keep the specials on their new and hottest items secret until the last minute . That way each of them did not have enough time to react and the result was some pretty interesting items offered to all the customers by both companies . Thus the saying was coined Does Macys tell Gimbels. I think that still applies in todays world especially when it comes to consumer goods that are based on a ever changing technology such as electronics.

Just on a side note, as I had mentioned in one of my posts, I was looking at the Pioneer gear. Specifically the VSX-49TX receiver because of what they call a Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration Circuit (MCACC),which comes with its own microphone, Oh Boy!, in order to auto calibrate your system as you had mentioned. I also liked the fact that it was promised to be upgradeable with a fire wire port. Their newest model is the 49TXi which also has MCACC with more memory and gadgets and gizmos of which I know very little about. If you were looking at the Pioneer DVD universal players maybe this a route you could take in the future. So remember there could be many Chefs of the Future in our future because Future Chefs as these could affect events in our audio future. Just look out for the Zip! Zip! Zip! Ha Haaaaaa

[fini]

Man, those product development guys are FAST!! I post my original idea, and, BAM!, like, hours later they've included it in their receiver! I'm going to have to remember to Zip! Zip! Zip! my Lip! Lip! Lip! Does this MCACC work pretty well?

The model 49tx sounds cool. Even better, the 49txi. I'm thinking we hold out for the 49txilsmft, with built-in lighter and ashtray.

fini

[BBB]

In almost all the feedback I have read about the MCACC in both the 49TX and 49TXi the owners seem to rave about this feature the most.Here's some more Idaho staples:Click Here

My Click Here abilities were graciously provided for by C.L.U.L.E.S.S. (Computer Lessons Under License Especially Servicing Stoners)OOOOOOOOOh Yeah He he he

[cluless]

Jeez BBB-

Cant you ever get it right?

C.L.U.L.E.S.S. is Clinical Lunatic Under Longterm Evaluation with Sociopathic Symptoms

[BBB]

Whatever you say Clu, Ill have to take your word for it when it comes to da descriptions of various clinical coordinated terminal-analogies. Your meaning and mine seem to be da same or on an equal par with a nutra sweet amicable understanding of 6 of one or half dozen of another type of defamation of characters. I suppose I should double check da abbreviated mistakes I make before I dive into any of these post mortems that have a gene pool difficulty of 1 to 1 when dealing with the limited unbalanced input contra-booted by personages such as myselves. Ill keep your device in mind and ship it out every morning for atomic absorption analysis before setting foot on the poster lined highway filled with double-decker vodka greyhounds that got my name spray painted on them. Maybe Id be better off sending in my observations on video tape but when I go to my diction-canary to look up how to spell VCR all I can find is how to pronounce byrd calls. Looking at the positive charged electron side at least I wont have a problem whistling while I work if I ever find anything tadoo while glowing in the dark. Oh well. Time to jump start my way back up the S.N.A.F.U. skyway. Vrooooooooom

[jdm56]

Fini,

Hey, my former back-yard neighbor had a pair of KSP-400's. He probably had a whole Synergy Premier system; I dunno. I'll have to check the ad on ebay. Goodness knows, I don't need them, though! I just want to finish out my heritage rig. If I ever get my belle, I'll be 3/5 of the way there.

Grandma comes from Joplin, huh? I've got a bunch of inlaws down there. Small world!

[erikjohn]

Fini,

Sorry it took so long to post reply. I am so busy during the weekends I don't really even get a chance to think about the BB, however I did get a chance to do a little listening this weekend. My comments on the 45A.

You can switch the front speakers to small. It does not really have bass management but rather speaker management. You can adjust levels for every speaker including the sub when when you use the 6 channel outputs. You can also tell it how far you are from each speaker but I have no idea what this is for. I have mine set at the default of 10'. It has a plethera(sh!t load) of menus and features. It has great picture management also. You can adjust everything about the picture pretty much the same as you adjust your tv. As far as the DVD section goes the picture is great, progressive scan works great and looks great. I really like how when using prog scan you can adjust sharpness to what you TV will handle without overdriving the guns. You can really dial the picture in to the way you want it. The audio side of it sounds great too. It sounds better than anything I had to demo against it. Sound was more detailed and open, surprisingly noticeable. My RX-V1 has the top notch Burr-Brown DAC's(10 of them) in so I also comared using digital out vs. 6 channel out using internal Burr-Brown DACs(3x2 whatever that means) on the unit. I really could not tell a difference. The Burr-Brown DAC's in the unit sounded great. Thats pretty much all I have to report to date. If I come across any other tidbits I will share.

EJ

[fini]

Eric,

Not able to visit here on the weekends? What, do you have a life, or something?

Glad to hear your initial impressions. Have you noticed that you have to boost your subwoofer on DVD-A and SACD discs, versus regular cd's, and dvd's using dts or Dolby Digital? This was an observation made by others, in the links that BBB supplied. I'm not even sure you have a sub...I can't see your signature and impressive equipment list durring posting. A report on bass output, regardless, would be interesting.

How did your inquiry about warranty go with etronics? Just curious.

fini

[boa12]

ej, the distance settings control the amount of delay to the speakers for the surround modes. a stickler like me measures the exact physical distance from each speaker & sub to the listening sweet spot & sets the distances accordingly. or a good approximation may work too.

you can also experiement some w/ those settings to hear if it makes a pos dif. like if u set the center to be closer than the speak actually is u may get a nice effect of the sound falling more into the screen. also setting the surrounds closer than they actually are may seemingly extend the rear soundstage for a better effect.

[fini]

I just thought of another question. When, and if they DO resolve the copyright (or whatever) issues that have prevented SACD/DVD/A from passing digitally to the receiver, will we be able to use our current receivers' coax and/or optical imputs? Or, will we all have to get new receivers to take advantage? I like my current receiver, and would probably decide to come up with a BM/switching solution instead of shelling out the big bucks for a whole new rig.

fini

[boa12]

fini, that's a good question. may be at least part of the problem w/ getting a digital standard.

right now to use the dolby & dts formats over a digital connection we need those respective decoders in our receiver or pre/pro. so to do a straight digital connection w/ the mlp dvd-audio or sacd formats i'd think we'd need those decoders in our receivers or pre/pro. like w/ the hdcd decoders being in a lot of the newer receivers now.

so f.e., i wonder if encrypted mlp can be decoded in the player & passed as a high-res digital (not analog) signal that goes through the dac process only in the receiver or pre/pro. i know if they ever go to a firewire digital connection i'll need a new card for the ieee port, but that's about all i know.

so i guess the question is can a format be decoded without also going through the dac process? if not i guess we'll need new receivers or upgrades. or else the firewire or whatever used won't be a true digital connection.

[erikjohn]

fini,

If this is a life I don't want one.LOL Just been real busy, between my parents that just moved from up north here to Orlando, spending time with my 1 yr old, a pregnant wife and building a new addition, I have been busy. Last weekend I worked until 11pm on Sunday night finishing up the wiring in my addition. I have everything wired for sound in the HT room and the bedroom. I have everything wired in the walls which are block which makes putting in boxes a bit of a chore since you have to bust out block to get them in. The bedroom is set up for 5.1 and the HT room(25'x30'9.33') is set up for 6.1(with front effect speakers = 8 speakers total) and a rear sub output in the rear wall. I also installed all kinds of RF loops for running the satelite into the bedroom and other parts of the house from the same reciever and installed zone 2 audio outs to the bedroom from the main reciever in the HT room. In all I ran about 425 lf of 9ga speaker wire and about 650 lf of coax. I have it all neatly nailed up in the attic. I have also advised my electrician that he is to keep all electric wires away from my wires so that no interference can be induced in them. I am so pumped, I can't wait to get my stuff in there. We are hoping that it will be ready to move into the first part of January. I still have to figure out how I am going to mount all of my big Klipsch from the ceiling(except for the Khorns, of course).

Anyway to the question. I haven't played any DVD-A or SACD because I don't have any yet, so nothing to report there. However, on regular DVD's - Yes the bass is better since you can punch up the sub out with the level control, however I prefer to listen with the Digital cable since I am able to utilize the listening environments and the front effects of the receiver. Obviously I will not have this option on SACD or DVD-A since I will have to use the 6 channel outs. As I said though the sound from the 6 channel outs is great. With no effects running on the amp and swithcing between the two outputs there was not a real noticeable difference in sound, maybe just a little bit of difference in gain, the 6 channel sounded a little weaker, but this can be compensated for by bumping up the volume a touch or tweaking the internal gains of the Pioneer.

EJ

[fini]

Well, I can't really remember the exact path that led me to this (got lost in the AVS and HTF sites), but on Friday I ordered a Panasonic CP72K from One Call (about $240 with shipping, I added a 2-year extended warranty for $30, and there is a manufacturer's rebate of $30). The unit got good reviews, the carousel is a plus. I have no idea how BM and switching will enter in to the equation, but I'm praying Outlaw will come out with an ICBM that incorporates two sets of inputs. Wouldn't THAT be nice?

fini

[BBB]

So what's the story Fini. Did you get the Panasonic fired up yet?

[fini]

BBB,

I'll be a-hookin' it up t'day. I'll also try to see if it exibits that "white flash" problem a few owners of this model have noticed. No problem with the shipment from OneCall. Tracking the package confused me, a bit. It started off in Spokane, then flew to Memphis, then to Oakland (45 min, away, oh boy!), then BACK to Memphis. Finally, it showed up in Petaluma, on a truck, so I was pretty sure I'd get it soon...and I did. And it was within the 3-day window FedEx promised, even WITH the holiday. Pretty slick.

I will give a report soon. I have got to go out and get a (some) DVD-A software to fully test, eh? Got any recs?

fini

[fini]

I picked up Fragile, and A Night At The Opera for the wife. The picture is stunning, a huge improvement over my old Pioneer 525. The audio end is a bit confusing...so many choices, especially with the KSP-400's. I tried doing an A/B comparison using a regular cd, between the digital connection and the analogs. It seems the way I've got it set up, the subs aren't working with analog. I've gotta do a bit of head scratching, I guess...

fini

[BBB]

There's no doubt about the picture quality you'll have with the Panny.Your 6 channel set up may take a little head scratching.Fool around with it and keep us informed.

On the audio side, picking some DVD-A discs I think depends on two things. Your taste and the engineers who did the mixing on the 5.1 tracks. Theres the Grammy award winning Elliot Scheiner who has many fine DVD-A remixes to his credit working with artists like Steely Dans Two Against Nature, America s Homecoming and the Doobie Brothers The Captain and Me. He also did some DTS re-mixes for the Eagles Hotel California and Sting. Then theres John Kellogg who remixed, Deep Purples Machine Head(pretty cool and great sound for a 1971 recording in a hotel room), Emerson, Lake and Palmers Brain Salad Surgery (there are 2 songs on this disc that have no .1 bass track Still You Turn Me On and Benny The Bouncer, the rest of the disc is 5.1) and he did Foreigner. Also look into Metallicas black album on Electra. Re- Mixed for 5.1 by Randy Staub and produced by Bob Rock who happened to do the original recordings. It has good separation and powerful bass. This one will blow you out of the room if thats your cup of tea. I also have Fleetwood Macs Rumours for nostalgia purposes but I think it could of sounded better for a DVD-A disc. Most people seem to like Eric Claptons Reptile and Riding with the King with B.B. King( one of my favorite albums by Clapton).Yes has a couple out. I have only the Magnification album and did not like Fragile. I only like Yes for Jon Andersons voice of which I find his range and control quite remarkable .Keep in mind I use an ICBM so my opinions may vary from others but the bass management allows me to appreciate every note a good bass player has laid down on some of these recordings and is more pronounced in the DVD-A version. Tiran Porters performance with the Doobie Brothers is a good example. Remember that just because one of your favorite albums has been re-mixed in DVD-A that it guarantees it being far more dynamic sounding. That is because the sound is so dependant on the engineers talent with 5.1 mixes. Theres plenty out there so good luck.