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DVD-A/SACD 6-channel switching question


fini

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So, I've already got a Sony SACD player. My DVD player (cheapo Pioneer 525) is starting to refuse to play CD's, and I've been looking, longingly at new players. I'd like to get a DVD-A player (good deals around on the Panasonic RP-91K...Mike Lindsey's rig), but to use this AND the SACD player, for convenience, I'd prefer some sort of switcher (pulling interconnects would be a pain).

Are there reasonably priced, 6-channel switchers out there?

Or, are they so expensive that it would make sense to go with the DVD-A/SACD-playing Pioneer DV-45a? Does anyone have opinions on how these two players compare on DVD audio and video, as well as redbook playback?

fini

fini

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That's what I was thinking. I saw a sort of homemade switcher someone is selling on the internet for around $200, and I'd assume a company like Russound would charge more. Have you heard both players, or compared guts? The DV-45a is still pretty new, so not many reviews yet. Sound and Vision tests it this month, but you can hardly call it a technical review. They seemed to like it. I know the RP-91k has a lot of fans. We might expect to see some used ones pop up as people upgrade to universal players.

fini

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fini,

200 bucks for a 6 channel switcher is way too much. You can build one for much less but you will have to switch each shannel separately(Each channel has it's own independent switch). I have been thinking of building one myself.

I should be getting my DV 45A today so I will post how it works/sounds once I have a chance to fart around with it. I need to go get some DVD-A and SACD material, maybe this weekend.

EJ 1.gif

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sorry its off topic some, but bill or anyone, any info on which if any dvd-audio discs can be played over that digital firewire connection in the high-rez mlp format? last i heard (i think from bill) was that w/ some dvd-audio discs it would be & some it wouldn't be possible.

also wonder if that pioneer player is or will be compatiable w/ other products such as my b&k pre/pro if/when they ever get in an upgrade for the ieee port to use a firewire.

or is everything still up in the air pretty much w/ dvd-audio digital/firewire connection?

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Today I picked up a sony SACD 555-ES and connected it. I had to unplug my DVD-Audio connection.

My Yamaha only has 1 6-channel input.

I picked up several SACDs today and there do not seem to be discrete audio channels. The rear surrounds just seem to be replicating the reverberation. I thought SACD would have one instrument playing out of one speaker, another instrument out of another speaker, vocals out of another speaker, etc.

Did I mess up the connections or am I missing something?

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Often the rear channels will have the sound of the recording venue in them: the music of the performers reflecting off the walls. Properly done, this will give you a sense of being in the original recording facility. But what is assigned to the rear channels is up to the producer and artist. Sometimes the mixes are aggressive and you will have, say, separate guitars in the rear speakers than in the fronts, or background vocals, or something like that.

A lot of people like the conservative approach of having ambience in the rears; others like a more active use of the other channels, as was the case with a lot of quadraphonic mixes of last century. It's almost a guarantee that one or another camp is going to be disappointed. Now me, I like either approach; variety is the spice of life.

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Fini- The DV-45A is too new to be certain, but its price to performance ratio seems to be the best avaialbe today. Pioneer's build quality seems to be headed upward IMO. They want the reputation that they have in RPTVs to be matched by their audio products it seems.

Boa-I can't afford a DV-47Ai to go with my 49TXi--yet. So I have not investigated which DVD-As go over the firewire port. I am waiting for the copy protection on DVD-A to come off in any case. That way I will not have to upgrade/replace the machine in a year or two.

Roboforst-Multi-channel music sound mixers have no idea as to what they are doing on many remixed SACDs and DVD-As. They are learning as they go. It will be years IMHO before multichannel music is where multi-channel movies are today.

Bill

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Fini,

I bought it from www.etronics.com. It was $423 + $22 shipping. I am not sure if this was the best online price but they are authorized dealer so all warranty is there. I was very pleased with the delivery and it was a hassel free transaction.

Anyway, I got it yesterday and hooked it up last night. After muddling through all of the configuarations which wasn't bad i got everything the way I want it. This thing has so many option on it. It is really a great unit. I haven't holoked up the 6 ch outs yet but I like the fact that it has speaker management for these outputs. The picture quality was very impressive on my 61" HDTV ready Hitachi. After comparing DVD I found that the Xbox has a surprisingly good picture and sound but it isnt as good as the progressive scan Pioneer. The picture from the Pioneer was awesome, no bleeding at all, I mean zero, the poicture seemed to be as good as HDTV. We also compared the sound of it with a audio cd with my Xbox(Which I had been using for CD/DVD). My wife and I thought the Pioneer was a little smoother sounding and more open sounding than the Xbox. For the money I think the unit was well worth it. It will play almost all types of media, has tons of features, great DAC,s and video chips, and gives you alot of options to fine tune your system. I will report more as I get a chance to play it more.

EJ9.gif

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EJ,

Great price! Did you get the free dvd-a and sacd discs? Check out the Pioneer site, if you didn't.

You must have interconnects on your Christmas list, eh?

Well, I'm jealous. Almost got the wife primed for the purchase, though.

Paulparrot,

Thanks for the switcher tip. I took a look at one at RS yersterday. It certainly would be economical, although they're so small and light, they would need to be glued to something to keep the 9 interconnects (each) from pulling it to somewhere behind your rack. So, I'm thinking the DV-45a would be the more elegant choice. Of course, if there was a bass management system, like the ICBM, that allowed for 2 sets of inputs...

Bill,

How would you expect the performance to be different using firewire? Also, besides being able to copy DVD's, what would be the possibe performance benefits of non-copy-protected dvd's? I really appreciate your imput here (as I do everyone's!).

fini

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I just checked etronics.com, and the price was $399! I don't know how much shipping is to CA, though...

fini

Edit: I just got off the phone with Pioneer. I found out there are no authorized internet dealers for Pioneer Elite products. The service rep I talked to said they're covered by no Pioneer warranty at all. So, Eric, if this concerns you, you might want to call etronics.com.

As I understand it, Pioneer's basic warranty on Elite products ia 2 years.

fini

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Fini,

Firewire connection only works between the Pioneer DV-47Ai and the Pioneer VSX-49TXi receiver. It allows the 49TXi to be passed the digital SACD signal via the firewire ports. The 49TXi receiver uses its own DACs and bass management to give much higher quality sound.

All other SACDs (except the Denon 5803, 9000 combo) must use the analog inputs to the receiver. Hence the sound quality tends to be lower as well as having bass amangement problems on many SACD players.

Bill

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Now hold on there, Mr McGoo!

SACD does not have lower quality sound at all, let alone because it has analog outputs. These analog outputs go right into whatever amplification is used. By not processing them from analog to digital and then digital to analog back again, you're saving two sets of conversion. That can only help matters.

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FWIW, Showcase Home Entertainment (owned by Tweeter/Sound Advice) was recently selling the Elite DV-45 on sale for $450. With tax added, that's only about $35-40 more than the etronics price, and is an authorized dealer. Their regular price is $499, but I bet they'd sell it for $450 if you offered it to them (and you have a Tweeter/Sound Advice in the area).

DD

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I think Bill has made some very good points. Hey Fini ,what is the bass management quality going to be like?

How will it play SACDs. I would try my best if I were you to hear this 45-A with some of your discs or get it at a place that has a liberal return policy. Will it provide bass management ala the ICBM? If not I would be disappointed. DVD-A without GOOD bass management is a drag. Does it let you attenuate each speaker in a certain range like the Outlaw. I just want you to make the right decision. Some people say the unit is fine and plays all their discs but what systems are they using. Would their setups even miss the use off good bass management? I use a Tosh SD-9200 with an ICBM just for audio and no problems . IF I could afford it and was interested enough in SACDs I would buy a separate unit for it using the ICBM with a Shawn Fogg switch box youve been looking at: http://home.attbi.com/~shawnfogg/ .Some people said the bass management with the 45-A is limited and the video side it is O.K. I use an RP-91 for DVDs and the sound is fine for movies . Picture is great. Now there is talk about this unit and the RP-82 having problems navigating through Warner/Electra/Asylum DVD-A titles like Yess Fragile album .Just be careful out there and make sure you will be happy with the sound of both the SACD titles you presently own and the DVD-As you will be purchasing when playing on this machine through YOUR system. Good Luck and try and get it from an authorized dealer as DD said that you can return it to without hassles. That is why I use the expensive Crutchfield people sometimes. They have a no questions asked-try it to see if you like it return policy. Ha ha . I know this is a tough one and dont listen to the people that say this is a no-brainer. 2.gif

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Saw it at Magnolia Hifi (the only Elite dealer in town) today for $470. No cost financing for a year. Deal ends Saturday.

BBB,

Gotcha. I'll see what I can find out about bass mgmt. on this unit. How do you like the RP-91 for audio? You use the ICBM? Happy with it?

fini

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Fini - I couldn't find the DV-45 manual on Pioneer's website, so I looked at the DV-47 (which claims to also have bass management). It's an interesting read, and there are some loopholes in their bass management. Don't know if the 47 and the 45 do it the same. I'd be interested in knowing what you find out.

See page 44. For example, you can only set the mains to large. The others can be set to small/large/none. No actual crossover frequencies can be specified. When playing a DVD-A, it automatically switches all speakers to large ("However, the sound will not be affected by the change." Huh???)

DD

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Paulparrot,

The DV-45A has, I believe, Burr-Brown 1736 DS DACs with 3 DACs for 6 channels. The VSX-49TXi uses Burr-Brown 1704 DACs, one per channel. The 1704 is Burr's best (most expensive) DAC. I prefer to use these DACs via a pure digital connection when possible. I have yet to hear better DACs.

When I use the analog inputs on my VSX-49TXi, I redigitize the analog signal to (1) perform proper bass management and (2) do the room acoustic correction that the Pioneer offers. The price I pay is in any information loss from redigitizing the analog signal plus raising the noise floor from -95 db to -83 db. The benefit is in improved sound IMO, in spite of the costs.

I would clearly get better sound if I kept it digital all of the way to the 49's DACs.

Bill

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