jtice Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 I'm a newbie--first post after having lurked awhile. I'm about to acquire a pair of Forte II's to start a second system. Tastes are migrating toward classical these days and warmth is becoming more important. I've had a pair of Heresy II's for a decade, mostly rock 'n roll, driven by a Denon SS amp. I'm ready to try a tube amp with the Forte's and know zero about them. I'm looking to ease into this on minimal budget at first. I've read that the Stereo 70 or ST 70 amps are decent and inexpensive. I'd like to know what other low cost tube amps to consider. Also, I'd like to know about preamps to pair with these as well as other necessities that I'll need to get started. I'll be choosing some type of CD player as the souce. I appreciate your help. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afvn72 Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I've used an Eico HF81 and a Fisher 400 receiver with original Fortes and like the Fisher best. You can get a decent original 400 on Ebay for under $200. Another $200 in upgrades will give you an integrated amp with a tube tuner built in. Plug your CD in the AUX inputs and away you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I find this hard to believe but each to his own. The Fisher integrated are nice little units and pack a good punch but are not as open sounding, once again, as the EICO up to snuff. Perhaps these distinctions are only realized until other parameters are met. When judging on transparency, bloom, quickness, resolution, blackness of background, soundstaging, front to back imaging, I really think the EICO belongs in a class of its own. Of the Fisher units, the 400 also employs the hard to locate 7868 output tube, a tube that is pretty expensive and relatively hard to find although with mods it will run what you do have without much strain. The 400 IS MORE POWERFUL, however coming in over 25w or so vs the EICO 14w. Still, I dont believe the 400 receiver even employs tube rectification and of the Fisher units, I have found the tube rectified versions do sound better. The circuit for the Fisher is more complex than that EICO and I have not personally heard the SS rectified Fishers equal the detail/attack and soundstaging of the HF-81 without adding that bit of SS rectification tint. Still, all these vintage amps sound better than most of the modern gear today. STill, you must look at the ease of finding tubes as well as the complexity of the piece. I tend to avoid receivers for the simple reason they are FAR FAR more complex than the average integrated. You are also using the power supply to do more duty. But the complexity alone gives me pause enough. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I'd have to agree with Kelly the Fisher units are nice but there are much better options out there sound wise and dollar wise. As far as I know there are only a few techs that will touch a 400 , 500 or 800 reciever and none that I know of that will touch one for less than $400 to $500 than considering they go for near the same as the rebuild cost and there are much better options out there. If someone wants fisher I would Opt for a Intergrated amp although I still feel a HF-81 or Scott 6BQ5\7189 based amp would be my first choice. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I'm not as familiar with the older amps as the above experts. I can tell you that the Fortes don't require over 5 Watts for classical music. And in the interest of your future ability to enjoy classical music, the Fortes don't require over 5 Watts for any kind of music. Don't get something real big, like 50 Watts, the added power just adds noise floor. Fortes are a real sweetheart. Treat them right. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtice Posted December 31, 2002 Author Share Posted December 31, 2002 thank you all--appreicate the info. There are some interesting things out there. I'd love to listen to these amps but I guess I'll have to go on recommendations. I will browse the old electronics shops to see if there's anything collecting dust. Kelly, I looked at your web page on the HF-81... really interesting. This sounds like it would fit me to a tee. If anyone knows of a nice example for sale that's been brought up to speed please point me toward it. Although I'd also be interested in just a good clean original that works. leok, I am amazed at how little power you're talking to push the Forte. I've been running 100wpc through the Heresy's and never knew it was such overkill. (assuming that Heresy's and Forte's are comparable) I mean 5 watts is like almost nothing. Why did they tell me I needed 100watts... this was a high-end audio store. Is it different for tubes vs. SS or am I just doing it wrong? Assuming I find the amp, will I need to modify the output terminals to put big cables on it--or I suppose I should ask how do you connect the speakers to the amp's little tiny screws? And what kind of cable should be used? Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 There may be any number of reasons that audio equipment dealers push high power amps. One may be that it is all they carry. Another is that the problems that plague ss design are not reduced by making a low power ss amp. SS IS the problem. It's a very difficult medium. I'm sure there are good ss amps. I've heard a class A by Nelson Pass and a very fast "servo" design called a "Job" that I thought were ok. Tubes do low power better because their inherent distortion drops as power out drops, especially in class A, no feedback implementations. I think the Heresy is about half as loud as the Forte (is it 96dB?). figure half as loud for each 3dB of difference in the "sensitivity" specification. The Heresy may want 10 Watts (others on this forum would know better than I would). But in the end, unless you are making a terrible amount of noise, 5 Watts will drive the Forte nicely. My Tripath design will clip at about 8 Watts and I have never gotten close. There is an LED that is designed to tell me of 3.5 Watt peaks, and that blinks now and then. And, I am becomming suspicious that that LED is blinking at lower than 3.5W (I never really calibrated it). See if you can get your hands on a low power tube amp and try it. I think you'll be surprised. Happy New Year leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Oh, the terminals. Some people struggle with them and others replace them with larger posts, once they have decided which Ohm setting is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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