Welborne labs DRD amps

[ssh]

What are your opinions about:

Welborne labs new DRD amps?

SS or tube rectification in them?

Advantages/Disadvantages of 300B,2A3,or 45 tube models for use with Khorns?

Upgrades for the Ultimate kit?

Level of expertise necessary to complete a pair?

SSH

/

[Radiohead]

Well let's see here....

300B typically push 8W-15W

2A3 typically push 2.5W-4.5W

45's typically push 1.5W-2.5W

At least I think that's about right.

As far as the Welborne Labs DRD amps are concerned I think they are still a bit new to find some objective reviews here. Some may have had some experience and will possibly speak up soon. I used to have a pair of Ultimate Laurel 300B's but sold them in order to acquire a couple of McIntosh units. As far as advantages and disadvantages are concerned the few I can think of relate simply to output. In my opinion 2A3 and 45 amps are made for jazz, classical, opera and such. They just don't have what it takes to power hard rock and especially electronic music. What they do have however is EXTREME clarity and openness with a lovely attention to detail. The 300B could be used for more of your powerful recordings but for me it still wasn't enough. I gave up tube rectification for solid state rectification moving over to the McIntosh units which I believe plays a huge part in creating the sound my ears want to hear. There just seems to be more authority in the sound and the midrange with McIntosh is simply lush and magical. I must admit that my experience with SET is VERY minimal and I don't really feel qualified to make any official assumptions about their performance. I liked what I heard when I had the Laurels a great deal; I simply needed a little more meaty bass. I plan to try another SET setup in the future but for right now I am content with what I have.

If you should end up getting any of the new DRD units I, and others here, would really like to hear your opinion on them. As far as assembly is concerned I purchased mine already assembled...the Laurels that is. A gent on the forum by the name of Erik has some good experience working on Moondogs and will probably chime in here pretty soon to give you his $.02. Also, try doing a search for Welborne, Moondogs, or Laurels and you will uncover a number of posts that may have information you were unaware of.

[ssh]

Thanks,Radiohead.

I may be seeking the Grail,& just thinking that SET may be it.I listen to my good SS & think...yes,but.Then I listen to my decent push pull & think...yes,but.I read about the clarity of SETs,& but for the loss of much appreciated bass,think...maybe.If I go SET,I'll have another option to taste.

I thought each of the 3 options of tube types might exhibit a different musicality,besides differences in output.I have no experience with any of them.I listen to a variety of music daily,if that is a question.

SSH

[Radiohead]

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On 4/24/2003 1:35:20 PM ssh wrote:

I thought each of the 3 options of tube types might exhibit a different musicality,besides differences in output.

----------------

I am sure this is probably a correct statement. My experience with SET was solely limited to the Laurels I had for about two months which is why I don't really feel qualified to be talking about this in the first place. A have never heard a good 2A3 or 45 although I plan to do so in the future. I'm sure each design definitely has a different musicality to it and others, with more experience than myself, will eventually show up with their input. The Eico was the first tube unit I acquired and I just feel in love with the push-pull sound. It definitely has a wonderful overall package to it considering bass and midrange. Within the next couple of hours I'm sure the SET lovers here will provide you with the details you are looking for.

[sunnysal]

I suspect that the DRD will be killer. Too soon to have heard them, but hang around here or AA for some comments soon from buyers. AND how about a PP 2A3 or 300b? that amp would lie somewhere in the middle of 2A3 SET magic and EL34 PP balls. So many choices so little time (and money!) regards, tony

[ssh]

sunnysal,

Well,there you have it.The Welborne's would cost both money & time.

SSH

[Kudret]

ssh, sorry I can't help you but just wanted say that I am also interested to hear the answer to your questions. I am trying to decide whether to get moondogs (if I can find any) or get new DRDs. In any case, I will have to sell one or both of my Scotts (299A and C - I am keeping the 299B) to finance my purchase.

[Erik Mandaville]

Radiohead gave a great description of what the DRDs might sound like. I have never heard them, however. They are designed by Jack Eliano, whom to some of you with Moondogs would be more closely associated with very good quality power and output transformers. The original DRD amplifier was published in VTV (Vacuum Tube Valley)some time ago. That circuit uses solid state rectification. Output transformers (which match plate to voice coil impedance), secondaries consist of silver wire, which probably lends a high level of detail -- some might describe that sound as 'sharp' 'over-etched' etc. I just don't know, I've never heard them. As I said, I have a copy of the original schematic published in VTV, and even started to acquire some of the less expensive parts in order to build it.

Leo and I both performed the Ultrapath output on our Moondogs, which is an important aspect of the DRD. This adds to the sense of clarity, as well as helps provide a more quiet backdrop for music.

But all this info. doesn't do anything to help you in terms of how they sound...'cause I don't know how they sound! I can say that Ron Welborne's products are designed to very, very high standards -- in build quality; selection of active and passive components; and most importantly, circuit design. To top it all off, the visual appeal is always extremely clean, understated, and elegant (IMO!!!). You simply couldn't go wrong with two guys like Jack Eliano and Ron Welborne working together; and that is the truth!

And! George Wright makes a 2A3 monoblock pair of amps that some have said is even better than the Moondogs. Moth Audio's 2A3 has also gotten some of the best reviews I've read for contemporary single-ended amplifiers.

...and I'm tired and want to go eat some ice cream!

Erik

[leok]

A few things I noticed about the design.

DC coupling between driver driver and 300B is a plus.

The cap on the input-stage/driver cathode to gnd will add some color. It's an electrolytic, which Ron likes to use in that position. It might add "slam." I'm not a fan of "slam" and would consider a polyprop and pio pair .. or something equally expensive. I doubt the cap can be removed because of the inductor plate loading of that stage. Also because of the same inductor plate loading, everyting I said in this paragraph just may be nonsense. Anyway, that cap has my attention.

Gain is lower than the Moondogs and a preamp would probably be required.

It looks like a lot of fun and a great platform from which to begin tweaking.

I would get all the upgrades Ron offers. Then I would change the output to parallel feed

I agree with everything Erik said.

leok

[ssh]

Thanks for the info,guys.

I much more clearly understand by your experience what I had thought about (my presumptions).I won't have the luxury of A/B-ing a 300B & 2A3.If I go 2A3,& get the silver wire output transformer option,I'm in the Yote 2A3 price range,& it's already assembled.I'm sure I'd love the clarity of the 2A3,but when I think about all the rock I listen to,I lean toward the 300B with presumably more bass.