HornEd Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 Although they have been replaced by a hot shot lineup of Reference "7's", KLF 30's have brought a lot of listening satisfaction to a lot of folks... and I am proud to be one. Having six KLF 30's gives me the opportunity to experiment a little... like rebuilding the board to make a fabulous KLF 30 center channel that works for my system... but is probably not a viable commercial configuration... but that's O.K., it is a step toward an all KLF 30 6.1 system. For the next step, I sure could use some advice from the clever engineers and savvy Klipsch vets that scan this BB. I like having KLF 30's on the side for the increasing "discrete" aspects on DVD's... but they need help on the "ambient" aspects. So, what I propose to do to a pair of KLF 30's is to pull the mid-range horn assemblies out and add two horn assemblies in a separate cabinet to allow a 180 degree array. By feeding the horn array with the output from the 30's xover the ambient aspect should increase without much damage to the discrete performance. Or so I theorize. If this potentially harebrained idea has any merit, I would appreciate any suggestions in laying out the mid-range horn array supplemental speaker. I have access to MDF sheets, woodworking and electronics tools and, hopefully, retain some skills. Again, I have the utmost respect for Klipsch engineering as evidenced by dozens of Klipsch speaker purchases from authorized dealers over the years. Now I would like to have an extra fun dimension in my retirement... and could use a little help from those who I would like to look upon as friends. HornEd ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Modified Center KLF 30 Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtkinney Posted May 26, 2001 Share Posted May 26, 2001 HornEd, I like your pioneering spirit. Give it a shot. The only problem that I see is the impedance change of the three horns in series/parallel may change the crossover characteristics. I am not an expert in these things so maybe others can comment. This is not insurmountable, just change the crossover when you add horns. Keep us posted on how it comes out. ------------------ Jim SF-2 Mains SF-1 Center (pair) RS-3 Surrounds RC-3 Rear Center KSW-10 Subs (pair) Yamaha RX-V1 Reciever Yamaha CDC-655 CD Player Toshiba SD-1200 DVD Toshiba TN50X81 50" HDTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 26, 2001 Author Share Posted May 26, 2001 Thanks for the encouragement, Jim. Actually, I was thinking of removing the mid-range horn from the KLF 30 and then putting it and a mate in the separate enclosure... to minimize the potential impedence problem. I hope one of the experts out there will give me a clue or two in this area. It should be fun to build a full-size tandum surround speaker... more fun and a whole lot cheaper than some hobbies I have had. HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColaBear Posted May 26, 2001 Share Posted May 26, 2001 HornEd, I too use KLF30s as side surrounds and couldn't be happier. My side 30s are about 12 feet from my listening "sweet spot". This possibly changes how they handle the ambient aspects of DVD movies. I tried a pair of KSP-S6s and really couldn't find any adavantage in ambient aspects. My theatre has a rather odd configuration, but offers incredible sound. I would like to replace my KG 3.5s with another pair of KLF30s but am not sure how I would position them. I am attaching a .JPG of my theatre. Any help you can offer would be appreciated. Either answer back here or email me direct, mark@colabear.com. Thanks! ------------------ KLF-30 mains KLF-C7 center KLF-30 surrounds KG -3.5 rear effects KSW200 subwoofer Denon AVR5800 Pioneer Elite DV-09 Pioneer Elite PD-F19 RCA DTC1000 Sony Playstation 2 Denon MD1000 Vidikron Epoch D-600 Vutec 100" 4:3 1.5 gain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 26, 2001 Author Share Posted May 26, 2001 Wow, ColaBear, that is a challenging layout... and since you seem very pleased (as well you might) we Klipsch aficionados understand the "tweaking urge"... except for one who has strayed into an exotic fridge fetish ! Predicting acoustics is much more realistic with standard rectangles... so much open space, columns, windows, etc. make it an empirical room where trial and error reign supreme. So, here's a few quick comments: 1) Indeed, the width of your HT area allows the surround KLF 30's the room they need to allow a single midrange horn to have a better "ambient" effect. 2) Which naturally follows with the challenge of the lack of distance behind your primary listening area to get the same benefit from additional KLF 30's. Personal experience indicates that KLF 30's are not all that bad fairly close (3'-4') to ones ear as rear effects speakers... but some of the drama is lost. I would take a "sound wall" approach (as BobG calls it). A pair of KLF 30's with their fronts roughly even with rear wall (i.e., the back end of the speakers extending beyond the rear wall). Horns have a distinct advantage in rooms like this since they do not have as great a dependency on reflections that direct radiating speakers do. I would probably delay the signal to the rear effects KLF 30's to achieve the effect of more depth to your listening area by sending the rear effects signal through a second amplifier which has a provision for a phantom center channel. I have previously used this technique to good effect for showroom theaters that seat as many as sixty people. 3) I am curious about the placement of your subwoofer. Obviously, if it sounds best were you have it, that is where it should be. But, most quality subwoofers would benefit from a placement in the one good bass corner in your otherwise open room. 4) Personally, I would pull my mains closer to the edges of your 100" screen to keep dialogue and image more tightly configured to create a more dynamically realistic illusion between your ears. You have a wonderfully broad rear sound stage... so I would add front effects Klipsch speakers on columns to raise the horns to at least 6' high... and angle them toward the prime listening target... and set them a few dB below the mains (using the SPL meter). This gives the benefit of a dramatic high and wide sound stage without creating sonic gaps between speaker and screen. 5) Have you "tuned" your system for placement and volume with an SPL (Sound Pressure Level) meter (The analog one at Radio Shack works better... about $30)? Well, ColaBear, that's my "quick & dirty" take on your set up and what I might do if it were mine. But, then again, my ex-wives will tell you that I am a bit eccentric... but the sound systems I left with them (including Khorns and projections systems) were not a source of complaint. My current config is designed to benefit the cognitive processes of my aged mother... and, so far, it seems to be working... and KLF 30's seem to work best by virtue of her positive response to them. Fortunately, the side benefits to me and our HT guests have been astounding. I will try to get back to you when I have more time. Thanks for asking. Hope this gives you more incentive to push the envelope on Hope (AR) products. HornED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColaBear Posted May 26, 2001 Share Posted May 26, 2001 HornEd, Thanks for the fast response. Unforunately that one corner has an equipment rack in it (forgot to put it in the drawing). To address the front effects comment. I tried a DSP-A1 (which I still have) but didn't care for the use of those speakers. I used SB1s, mounted outside of the KLF30s. I may just do your suggestion of the a third set of KLF30s even with the back wall. Do you think they should be toed-in a touch also? Also thinking of another sub, but not sure where to go with it. The main speakers location is only about 6 inches off the edge of the screen, so I am set there (was tough to make that placement to scale). Also, my center, a KLF-C7 is mounted directly below the screen. It is about 16" off the floor and tilted up towards the listening area. I guess I have it aimed correctly as the dialog appears to come from the middle of the screen. Ironically, I did purchase an SPL meter from Radio Shack. The part that just about floored me was that I only needed to tweak the left surround's volume up +1. All the others were "dead on". Scary, I know. Any other suggestions/comments are alsways appreciated. ------------------ KLF-30 mains KLF-C7 center KLF-30 surrounds KG -3.5 rear effects KSW200 subwoofer Denon AVR5800 Pioneer Elite DV-09 Pioneer Elite PD-F19 RCA DTC1000 Sony Playstation 2 Denon MD1000 Vidikron Epoch D-600 Vutec 100" 4:3 1.5 gain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 26, 2001 Author Share Posted May 26, 2001 Glad to be of service, ColaBear... here's a few more thoughts before I take mother to brunch. On the second sub, I would recommend that you put it right behind the couch (if there is room given the scale factor). That would give you some wall for it to work with. I would run the rear set of KLF 30's off the rear sub. Sound above about 80dB tend to have directionality... and anomalies in most subs give additional directional clues... and so, a rear sub, helps the HT illusion you are enhancing. Sorry, I was not clear enough. Yes, I would angle the rear effects KLF 30's acutely toward the center. Aim your horns like a shotgun at a wild turkey with the turkey sitting in the prime listening area. That, and distance, is why your side surround 30's work so well IMHO. The overlapping effect of the rear horns should help fill in the center... as will a second sub in the middle. Sorry, my gourmet bent suddenly outweighs my Klipsch comments! HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColaBear Posted May 26, 2001 Share Posted May 26, 2001 HornEd, I just got back from my local Klipsch dealer. We talked about a second sub as well. If/when I take the plunge, looks like the KSW200 gets moved behind the couch and it will run the rear KLF30s. Then I will get a KSW-15 and put it up front. ------------------ KLF-30 mains KLF-C7 center KLF-30 surrounds KG -3.5 rear effects KSW200 subwoofer Denon AVR5800 Pioneer Elite DV-09 Pioneer Elite PD-F19 RCA DTC1000 Sony Playstation 2 Denon MD1000 Vidikron Epoch D-600 Vutec 100" 4:3 1.5 gain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 26, 2001 Author Share Posted May 26, 2001 Sounds like a plan, ColaBear. You might want to take a listen to the new K-sub that will be out in a month or so. I like the KSW-15 for the money and for the floor firing aspect. The new one has the added benefit of a passive radiator and side mounted controls... and a considerably higher MSRP. I already have a KSW-15 but will look at the new Klipsch plus the new higher end units by SVS. I like the candor and work ethic that "sub-human" Tom Vodhanel puts into his products. As you may have picked up from other posts, I am doing a study on bass augmentation of cognitive awareness, and therefore have about a dozen different subs to play with. Just out of curiosity, how big is the area in which your HT "room" is located and how high are the ceilings? I am thinking along the line of cubic feet and standing waves... which are always worth reflecting upon... particularly when you are adding a sub or two. It's strange that no one else has joined this thread... even for a derisive comment! May be there are more people out honoring Memorial Day than I thought. Be well... or at least keep your ears up. HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.