what to do with 2?

[HTADDICT]

I have the ksw12 (little but overall good)

am planning on getting the ksw15. I need to go a little deeper on my movies (don't do 2 much music). would I be better of doing 2 12's? Read a few other posts about placement, what I planned on doing was placing the12 up front and the 15 behind my couch at a lower cutoff frequency than the 12, but that doesn't jive with what I've been hearing to do. will mostly be watching dvd's on my sony da30 es receiver in DD & DTS, sounds like I might here the difference alot from what I've read so far. Any other opinions, anyone else run a ksw12 and 15?

This message has been edited by HTADDICT on 06-12-2001 at 12:47 AM

[boa12]

ht, lot of depends there. if you're 12 is already in the optimal room position, it may be best just to put the 15 underneath it, i.e., stack 'em.

i'd say that or wire your surrounds outta the 12 in the rear. still alotta depends but a starter anyway.

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Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Technics dual cassette deck

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear)

Monster MCX Biwires

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975)

Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics direct drive turntable

Sega Genesis game player

Sub: None yet

rock on!

[TVodhanel]

running the 12 with the 15 shouldn't pose any major problems...but I'm not sure if the ksw15 is the way you want to go regardless?

If you're looking for more extension over the ksw12---you might consider other options(like a 15-18" VEL servo)...because I don't think the ksw15 is going to go any lower.(the 15 WILL play about 2-3dB louder though).

TV

[HTADDICT]

Thanks... I looked into getting into some better subs but bang for the buck says I have to go with the klipsch 15 I can get a good deal on one. Probably will put the 15 up front and the 12 in the rear. will be easier on the wifes eyes. Should have it in a couple weeks. Thanks again.

[HornEd]

Ah, yes, HTADDICT, "What to do with two?"... I barely remember when life used to be that simple! I see your query even drew a comment from the "Ultra" busy Tom Vodhanel, legendary sub-human and the "V" in tiny SVSubwoofers. He, Boa and I have a healthy respect for the Vel HGS 18... and given its price, Velodyne is mighty proud too. Of course, SVS's latest offering at $2,765 for the "be all end all", totally tubular, twin Ultra-CS bottom feeder isn't exactly chump change either. Then again, don't be too sure because I just bought one... while waiting for the new (better performing? the stats are not out yet) subs from Klipsch.

Now, back to the standing wavey issues of using multiple subwoofers... particularly the Klipsch variety. Pending the arrival of the SVS Ultra, I am enjoying a KSW-15 up front and three (count 'em) KSW-12's bringing up the rear... and above the first octave... it is a great (read that, cost-effective, Klipsch loyalist) way to go.

For some time, I used the KSW-15 up front and a single KSW-12 in the rear of my 6.1 HT system... as you propose for yours. (Hmm, I wonder if there is a 12 step program for htaddicts? Gee, I wonder if I will ever become one... heh, heh)

The PROS: In an ideal audio world, the sonic offerings of a subwoofer below about 80Hz (or so) are non-directional... thus, one (or two) sub(s) placed in the best bass corner of your listening room could handle ALL of your bass action front and rear. BUT... in the less than ideal listening space and equipment of me and thee... directionality is a factor whether due to "speaker coloration" or super sensitive ears.

My non-scientific blind fold tests of an honest 93 year-old mother sitting in the sweet spot yield proof positive (at least for me) that a surprise HT explosion in the rear gets a bigger reaction with a rear sub in the dts version of the "Das Boot" sub experience. Mom has dementia... so I can repeat the experiment in a different configuration the next day and she won't remember the past day's reaction. (No, I am not cold hearted, if fact this whole HT rig was developed as an experiment to make her failing world more stimulating one in both health and enjoyment... and it's working as proven by formal university health center tests over the past five years!)

Putting a KSW-15 in front and a KSW-12 in the back provided one of the best configurations I have yet tried. Now, as Boa suggests above and as Tom uses in SVS twin-sub offerings... putting two subs together in the same corner can make your subs reach lower than they could individually... but that "need" to go lower happens far less frequently on today's DVD's than most people imagine. We got more "full time" benefit from front and rear Klipsch subs than stacked Klipsch subs in our tests.

The CONS: Now back to the standing wave issue. As you probably know, your ears pick up the auditory end of a bass wave because your woofer assembly is really a "motor" that moves a huge wave of air that. in the really low frequencies, is many feet long. As these many feet long waves bounce around the reflective and absorbent surfaces of your particular room, they may cancel one another out... as the force of one moving wave of air smashes into a previous wave... changing or even negating the wave. Thus, two subwoofers blasting from opposite ends could cancel each other out... and do to one degree or another. And, that, is the "standing wave" issue that haunts multiple-sub installations. Beating them takes sub-placement experimentation, time, knowledge, luck and, did I mention placement experimentation? You will be amazed... and get to know your listening room better than you ever thought you would... unless you really are a nameworthy HTADDICT!

I have been using three rear Klipsch subs to enhance HT realism with directionality common to less-than-ideal listening environments which included less than full range side-surround and rear effects speakers. Also, by carefully setting the subs operating range, they give an extra kick on explosions, but (except for pipe organs, etc.) let the music alone. I have since switched to all KLF 30's in the rear array... and they seem to give enough low bass directional clues that I am going to try using the "first-octave active multiple-sub in one corner route." But even the above referenced Sub-Human will attest... that that is for those of us who are sub-souls beyond redemption.

Commenting on how all this may work in your environment requires a better understanding of your room dynamics, amps, speakers and other "sound-affecting" gear. An increasingly bigger issue in today's evolving gear is "bass management" and how you can approach getting more with less hassle. Maybe you should read up on some of these issues on past threads on this board. Klipsch does more than build great speakers... it builds great listeners by sponsoring this board.

Thanks Klipsch and minions BobG, PhilH, JimG and everyone's favorite phone-in-the-ear Answer Guy, Trey Cannon at 1-800-KLIPSCH.

ADDICT, moi, what ever do you mean?HornEd

PS: SVS was built on a "more bass for the buck" approach and came from the do-it-yourself world of bass addicts. You might want to check out sub species in the "Sonotube" world... or just put a moratorium on discretionary spending until the new Klipsch bottom feeders are released into your neighborhood LAKE (Local Authorized Klipsch Establishment). In San Francisco, trolling for new Klipsch speakers is impedede by the manager-trolls that make up the order sheets and set up the sound demo rooms! See "HornEd gets Red" in this BB "General" category.

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Living HT Legends

KLF 30 L&R Mains

RC-7 Center (ordered)

KLF 30 L&R Surrounds

KLF 30 L&R Rear Effects

KLF 10 L&R Front Effects

Twin SVS CS-Ultra Pwr Sub

KSW-15 Pwr Sub (rear)

Speaker Support Systems:

Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65"

Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver

and such... Tweak On!

[HTADDICT]

Thanks horned for the insightfull reply from a guy who's been there. As for a 12 step program there is one but it's 12 steps in the wrong direction, this stuff just gets more addicting. I got my handle from my wife, who after asking what I paid for my klipsch speakers replied, with a blank shocked look.....my god you have an addiction!! hence the name HTADDICT, home theater addiction is not something you can cure, maybe if your stuck in a room listening to the backstreet boys on a bose system for about 2 weeks, you might be cured, but this procedure has yet to be tested on humans.

Multiple sub arrays are definetly coming up, still trying to work out a plan in my head, still jockeying ideas back and forth, but I just bought my house and big ticket items are out of the question, so I say bring on the ksw, I could sure benefit from reading into some of the older replies on these topics though, I admit I am pretty green when it comes to identifying placements and setting crossovers and etc.etc. WIsh there was a tell all book on the subject. Always look forward to reading your replies horned, wish I had a 93 year old mother to try my subs out on, SAY you should have her watch the opening scene to outbreak, tell her it's a nature show, crank it up halfway...It starts out with cute little bird sounds and ends up in mortarfire, that should get the old stimuli going. Anyway thanks