Yamaha/Klipsch Another Round

[colterphoto1]

This may be a silly addition to this thread, but bear with me. I have a Yamaha RXV 850 ProLogic 5 ch receiver that has served me well, and recently purchased a RX596 stereo receiver for my home office, which is stereo listening only. Bought it because it's more power into 2 channels for less $$$.

Also two other factors.

1. In the old PA days (and class a, b, ab power amps) one of the main buzz words was damping factor. The ability of an amp to not only start the speakers movement, but the ability to STOP it, ie, cease the ringing, once it got moving. We always looked for damping factors of 200+. Lots of HT amps have very small damping factors, check it out.

2. If I'm using a digital HT receiver, even on a normal stereo mode, with no 'effects', is my sound from my source still being chopped into tiny digital bits before being processed and amplified or are the digital portions of the processing being bypassed. Maybe I'm showing my age, but why buy all these expensive components only to destroy/rebuild the music when you can have sonic purity? Is this one of the reasons many people on the Forum have two separate systems in their listening rooms? One for HT and one for higher quality stereo listening. Seems a pity that you can't have it all in one unit. That being said, do the newer flagship Yammies have some kind of feature that lets you bypass all the digital goodies if they are not needed? Perhaps this a/d/a conversion is part of the cause for the Yamaha/Denon/HK debate?

[HornEd]

Hmmm... I have been using a Yamaha RX-V3000 in my 8 Legend Home Theater since it was the top of the line. I particularly like the built in ability to use Front Effects speakers for a wider, ethereal sound stage behind the main sound stage carried by the front array.

I also have a Denon AVR 3801 pushing another 7.l Klipsch set... and that, too, was once king of the Denon hill. In the right set up, both can do extremely well by most standards... and I still give the edge to the Yammy for its front effects which outweigh the Denon's ability to split the sixth discrete channel.

Perhaps it is time to get back into the amp wars before I get too far along on the seven cornered room full of Klipschorns. -HornEd

[redtop]

HornEd,

As I am looking at AVR upgrade options for my HT, your post here stimulated a couple of questions...

#1 - Since the front sound stage "carries" most of the HT sound burden, do you find the front effects to be active in a "discrete" manner or is the input signal "matrixed" to a fuller, more encompassing sound stage? Is the effect noticeable on all input material or just some DVD's?

#2 - In your experience, is the separates vs. receiver worth spending the time to investigate in a dedicated home theater? Is the performance close either way you go?

Thanks.

Redtop

[HornEd]

Well, Redtop, I have not researched these issues for awhile and am about to revisit them before selecting amps for my next project. In answer to the separates vs. receiver issue, my vote is for separates if you have the time to fiddle for perfection and receiver if you want the machine to get close. Also one should throw in here the tube vs. digital aspects it isnt so much a question of distortion but rather the flavor of distortion you most savor.

On the Front Effects issue as delivered by Yamaha I am a believer!!! I have worked with Yamaha units to create custom sound environments since before ProLogic was a buzz(ard) word. While the mix of some DVDs seem to be more amenable to displaying the value of Front Effects speakers the ones that do, under the Yamaha version, do so with gusto! Generally, the more spectacular the sound track, the more likely Front Effects speakers will create a big as all outdoors effect For example, take the top scenes from the DVDs listed by Forum fans in a recent survey and they all are greatly enhanced by having Front Effects speakers.

As you may know, I hang my Front Effects speakers a bit higher (about 6 high to the top of the KLF-C7s) and aim them at a point about 6 above my head in the heart of the sweet spot. I use a laser level to shoot the aiming points with accuracy. The Front Effects speakers not only draw their substance from the left & right mains but have a delay which separates the effects in a way that is similar to underlining text with a very fine line.

I have run extensive tests in the six KLF-30 HORNizontalizED speakers with and without the two KLF-C7 speakers used as Front Effects speakers with the audience of 40 or so rapt in attention. The overwhelming report is that running the Front Effects speakers with the is almost as meaningful as failing to turn on the subwoofer tower. One caution however, if there ever was a pair of speakers that need to be set up by the knowledgeable use of an SPL meter. -HornEd

[Q-Man]

I must say that I can't even listen to music any more unless the front effect speakers are on. They give you that you are there sound.

I may make the move to a McIntosh or Lexicon A/V processor one of these days since I'm now using all McIntoch power amps and the RX-V3000 as a Pre-Pro. BUT, I won't do it unless I can figure out a way to make the McIntosh or Lexicon give me front effect channels.

The front effects are that important!

[redtop]

Thanks for the reply HornEd. I have seen where others have run two amps with one dedicated to the front effects and created a "quasi" front effects setup. I'm enough of a purist in approach that I guess I'll go looking for a receiver or pre/pro that will take care of the front effects for me.

Any recommendations for specs on the front effects speakers? I know you use the C7's, but I don't think I've ever seen a post from you regarding what characteristics are important for the front effect speakers. Is full range optimum or overkill? Maybe just timbre match the horn? Any recommendations to go along with my KG 3.5's?

BTW, I'm ready to see pics of your Legend Theater in the yurt anytime you are...

Redtop