giribaldo Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Hi all, yesterday i bought my first Scott Amp , is a 222-C I will receive in 1 week (I hope) the seller sayd that it work and ready to use the only problem is: "The loudness control needs a squirt of cleaner, it's a little scratchy but only when turning" now i woul like some advice by people that know this amp, and what is better do before use it normally every day. Pheraps i think this model of 222 have a fixed bias without the possible to manually bias (i' m not sure but in schematic i can't see pot or trim to vary the bias) What this mean? is less better than 222-d that have bias trim? what i must do if there isn't bias trim when i change tubes? this mean that i can use only closed matched quad of tubes? and if i will not use matched quad what will happen? i can connect safely to my RF-7 or if something is wrong also RF-7 will suffer? (i would not burn My beautiful RF-7 ) sorry for so much question, but is my first scott amp and also my first wintage tube amp... thanks all Giribaldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Well there is a little more difference then Bells and whistles Ryan. Like the 4 Ohm taps being grounded, different phase splitter setup, completely different bias and balancing skeem on the 222D. Completely different amps if you ask me but do sound similar to some extent. I like them both ! Just shoot me a email craigostby@comcast.net with your number when you recieve the amp and If you have a multi meter we can do some quick and safe tests to detemine of you really should be running the amp as is in the long run. Never believe a eBay seller about things like this if the amp has not been worked on the chances of it working safely are almost none existent. The selenium rectifier is always starving the bias circuit and 12AX7 heater supplies on this amps I have litterally never seen one the wasn't at least putting out 25% less then what it should and this is out of 100s of amps. This part can be replaced with a $2.69 part from radionshack and requires one resistors change to make it up to spec. if your handy with a iron I can walk you through the replacement on the phone or through email but the phone is easier. I have free LD so no problem. My Motto is A vintage amp is a terrible thing to waste. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 12:57:05 PM NOSValves wrote: I have free LD so no problem. ---------------- Giribaldo is in Italy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- You need a disclaimer though: Money that doesn't wind up in your pocket is also a terrible waste (to you, that is). ---------------- Classy of you, Ryan. A First Class act all the way. You may not be aware of this but Craig has to pay for his house with his wife and kids. He isn't a freeloader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 not again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Ryan, Back to the same old tactics with you I see. You say If someone disagrees with me I attack. My post to you was completely civil and also completely true ! What you do is ATTACK ATTACK I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 giribaldo, I did not know your were in Italy so I will have to retract my free phone offer but I will still walk you through the simple tests through email for absolutely free !! In fact if you are real handy I will walk you through a complete rebuild again for completely free. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 That is a very nice gesture by NOSValves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_Shomaker Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 2:52:40 PM Ryan C. Inman wrote: ---------------- On 3/14/2004 1:26:01 PM paulparrot wrote: Classy of you, Ryan. A First Class act all the way. You may not be aware of this but Craig has to pay for his house with his wife and kids. He isn't a freeloader. ---------------- I'll tell you what was a first class act, Parrot, the way this thread sat with no replies until I responded to it. Within minutes after my reply, you know who jumped on it to discredit my every word. You know what else is a class act, Parrot? How someone in the field of construction can become an electronics expert in two years without a degree. It should be illegal if you ask me. Anyone making a LIVING rebuilding obsolete tube equipment IS a freeloader, a lazy good for nothing SOB afraid to get their hands dirty from real work. You make it sound like replacing a few capacitors is hard work, I bet you're a freeloader too Parrot. I suggest that BOTH of you get a REAL job and see what it's really like to work. You know, I don't know how those audio engineers of yester-year made it without Craig breathing down their backs, must have been a real miracle! Give me a fuc*king break. Go back to construction Craig, your free ride is over. Ryan EE ---------------- This is downright nasty Ryan. Uncalled for totally! You should be ahamed of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 1:22:09 PM Ryan C. Inman wrote: ---------------- On 3/14/2004 12:57:05 PM NOSValves wrote: Well there is a little more difference then Bells and whistles Ryan. Like the 4 Ohm taps being grounded, different phase splitter setup, completely different bias and balancing skeem on the 222D. Completely different amps if you ask me but do sound similar to some extent. I like them both ! Just shoot me a email craigostby@comcast.net with your number when you recieve the amp and If you have a multi meter we can do some quick and safe tests to detemine of you really should be running the amp as is in the long run. Never believe a eBay seller about things like this if the amp has not been worked on the chances of it working safely are almost none existent. The selenium rectifier is always starving the bias circuit and 12AX7 heater supplies on this amps I have litterally never seen one the wasn't at least putting out 25% less then what it should and this is out of 100s of amps. This part can be replaced with a $2.69 part from radionshack and requires one resistors change to make it up to spec. if your handy with a iron I can walk you through the replacement on the phone or through email but the phone is easier. I have free LD so no problem. My Motto is A vintage amp is a terrible thing to waste. Craig ---------------- You have free long distance to Italy? More power to you! The 4 Ohm taps being grounded really means peanuts, it has no effect on the output stage, and is wired in this configuration only to provide a derived, powered center channel output. It can't work any other way. The load on the output doesn't know the 4 Ohm tap is chassis grounded, the 0 tap floats. DC Balance is identical on both amplifiers. The phase inverter is a cathodyne circuit, and if it uses 6U8's, it is identical to the type used on the 222-D. They both work exactly the same. The only real difference is the Xc value of the screen bypass, in the 222-D a 4 uF capacitor is used to decrease the degenerative feedback of lower frequencies, that is, lower frequencies down to 20 cycles are bypassed without a degenerative effect on the signal. Some later 222-C's used the same setup, while most used an 0.25 uF capacitor with higher Xc value to the signal. The later 4 uF configuration delivers better bass response. And yes, a vintage amp is a terrible thing to waste. You need a disclaimer though: Money that doesn't wind up in your pocket is also a terrible waste (to you, that is). -Ryan ---------------- Here we go again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 2:52:40 PM Ryan C. Inman wrote: ---------------- On 3/14/2004 1:26:01 PM paulparrot wrote: Classy of you, Ryan. A First Class act all the way. You may not be aware of this but Craig has to pay for his house with his wife and kids. He isn't a freeloader. ---------------- I'll tell you what was a first class act, Parrot, the way this thread sat with no replies until I responded to it. Within minutes after my reply, you know who jumped on it to discredit my every word. You know what else is a class act, Parrot? How someone in the field of construction can become an electronics expert in two years without a degree. It should be illegal if you ask me. Anyone making a LIVING rebuilding obsolete tube equipment IS a freeloader, a lazy good for nothing SOB afraid to get their hands dirty from real work. You make it sound like replacing a few capacitors is hard work, I bet you're a freeloader too Parrot. I suggest that BOTH of you get a REAL job and see what it's really like to work. You know, I don't know how those audio engineers of yester-year made it without Craig breathing down their backs, must have been a real miracle! Give me a fuc*king break. Go back to construction Craig, your free ride is over. Ryan EE ---------------- Just getting this on record for the moderators Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 2:52:40 PM Ryan C. Inman wrote: ---------------- On 3/14/2004 1:26:01 PM paulparrot wrote: Classy of you, Ryan. A First Class act all the way. You may not be aware of this but Craig has to pay for his house with his wife and kids. He isn't a freeloader. ---------------- I'll tell you what was a first class act, Parrot, the way this thread sat with no replies until I responded to it. Within minutes after my reply, you know who jumped on it to discredit my every word. You know what else is a class act, Parrot? How someone in the field of construction can become an electronics expert in two years without a degree. It should be illegal if you ask me. Anyone making a LIVING rebuilding obsolete tube equipment IS a freeloader, a lazy good for nothing SOB afraid to get their hands dirty from real work. You make it sound like replacing a few capacitors is hard work, I bet you're a freeloader too Parrot. I suggest that BOTH of you get a REAL job and see what it's really like to work. You know, I don't know how those audio engineers of yester-year made it without Craig breathing down their backs, must have been a real miracle! Give me a fuc*king break. Go back to construction Craig, your free ride is over. Ryan EE ---------------- Just wanted to save this for future reference in case Ryan pulls a Mobile and goes back and changes his post. Ryan, did you ever get around to building that MINT kit, still-in-the-original-box, EICO HF-81? I'm assuming you're not putting Mobile's favorite vintage amp in the obsolete tube equipment category, are you? You make so many flip-flops you remind me of someone running for office. How old are you anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 3:00:22 PM NOSValves wrote: Just getting this on record for the moderators ---------------- Ha! You beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giribaldo Posted March 14, 2004 Author Share Posted March 14, 2004 thanks all, especially to craig that offered to help me to rebuilt the amp at telephone or e mail. thanks also to Ryan that clearly explained to me how bias work in this amp. I don't want this treadh become so hot and i don't like offence ... return to the 222-c Wowwwwwwww!! i thougt it was all more simple :-) i think i will need to study the shema very well. I don't have the amp here again, but if i understood i could use also not matched tubes (but if are mathced is better) and with the DC Balance pots (1 for channel) i balance the current between the pair of tubes. buth this without votmeter or ammeter? only with my... ears... :-) giribaldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuisis Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 For the record I live about two miles away from Ryan and have dropped off an amp for him to fix. I can't believe how hostile people have become on this forum, there are so many people with so much knowledge but it seems tact and courtesy are in very short supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 4:25:22 PM kuisis wrote: For the record I live about two miles away from Ryan and have dropped off an amp for him to fix. I can't believe how hostile people have become on this forum, there are so many people with so much knowledge but it seems tact and courtesy are in very short supply. ---------------- Kuisis, It is great that you have dropped off a amp so did you happen to witness his 3 person shop, 110 dB speakers, Tube burn in rack and 7 million other things he professes to have ? Did you happen to see his engineering degree also ? These are all things he has professed and tried to defame me with I would just like to know if someone has confirmed all this in person. I could careless if he works out of his house and what he has doesn't have or what his education is or isn't but when he uses this things as a way to try and defame me then it is indeed done in very pour taste. But most of all before you pass judgment I really think you should look at where the Hostility and Total paranoia in this thread came from the fact that I posted right after Ryan is ridicules it happened to also be the first post I made today and you know why ! You guessed it I had just logged in ! What I said is 100% correct and Ryan knows it he just goes off like a fire cracker at times and I have no clue why. The amps are indeed for the most part completely different ! I did not attack in anyway and still have not. The fact that he attacks me because my former profession was construction is lauchable since he himself does tube audio as a side line and only a side line while I do it as a full time business....guess what Ryan does as a full time business ......... Wires houses ......... construction business if you ask me and it may seem like its related but wiring houses has absolutely nothing to do with tube audio. In fact I have a very good friend that is a licensed electrician and is comepletely lost inside tube audio in fact he is scared of the 400+ DC voltage they carry. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 4:13:11 PM giribaldo wrote: thanks all, especially to craig that offered to help me to rebuilt the amp at telephone or e mail. thanks also to Ryan that clearly explained to me how bias work in this amp. I don't want this treadh become so hot and i don't like offence ... return to the 222-c Wowwwwwwww!! i thougt it was all more simple :-) i think i will need to study the shema very well. I don't have the amp here again, but if i understood i could use also not matched tubes (but if are mathced is better) and with the DC Balance pots (1 for channel) i balance the current between the pair of tubes. buth this without votmeter or ammeter? only with my... ears... :-) giribaldo ---------------- You can balance the tubes with a balance pots but there is not a very accurate way to doing it. The big thing that needs to be done is tests some none lethal voltages under the chassis with the Rectifier tube out of the amp to at least make sure its reasonably safe to run and isn't going to burn itself up in the long run. The test is really simple once you have the amp and a multi meter. I can mark on a photo what to measure for you. NOTE even though the rectifier tube is out there will still be harmful voltage present so you WILL HAVE TO BE CAREFULL Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giribaldo Posted March 14, 2004 Author Share Posted March 14, 2004 thanks Craig, when I will have the amp i will study the circuit (that became with the amp) and for sure before to touch something i will ask to you. the good is that i can read a schema, the bad is that i studied electronic and microproocessor never gone around tubes or so high voltage... i know the danger so i will pay a lot attention. i take a look at your site i like, if i will need some components you will ship to Italy? giribaldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 If you can read a schematic you are way ahead of the game and we can walk you right through the tests no problem at all. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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