Some technical info regarding older reference series

[white_shadow]

A few days ago I took my receiver in to get serviced. I didn't know that I had a service center so close by and that it even existed. The repair was minor and was finished in about 30-45 minutes. The service center was also a A/V store. I asked if I could bring my speakers in for some evaluation.

I did an A/B with some other speakers, wires and amps. I learned a few things but what I noticed the most is that my RB5's were way to bright. The other bookshelfs had more balance then the RB5. When I mean balance, I'm not referring to the quality of the sound produced by the drivers, but the blend of the two.

To get to the point, I came to the conclusion that the crossover must be replaced. So I went home and TORX'd it. I found something strange. I found a loose +/- woofer connector. I thought it was pulled off when I opened it up because I heard a snap (it was the rubber band holding the wire in place) But the wire turns out to be unused.

It looks to be the same xover as the rf3

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/files/Klipsch%20RF-3%20crossover%20schematics1.pdf

I haven't checked the values, which I will do early this week. But still this seems pretty cheap to me.

I'll find out the component values as well as the nominal and peak values of impedance for the K-1083(?) Somehow it should correlate to the RF3 woofer load. I'll try to find out the woofers parameters also, Q, Fs, Vas, etc..

Anyways, the highs are a 4th (Butterworth?) with a loss circuit (L-pad) The lows are a 2nd (Butterworth?) This circuit could use much improvement.

Earlier today I switch-hit (bi-amp) my RB5's. The sound and bass was so much more better. Just don't give them too much juice or the vocals become off balance. When you do this use one channel for a control such as your left channel in my case, and bi-amp the right channel. Then you can "hear the difference" rather than thinking you do or using speaker switches.

Heres some food for thought.

Will the RF7 tweeter mount to my RFx, RBx, RXX

Will the tweeter operate correctly without other alterations

The R-series drivers are incredible, if you use them right, and/or with mods

The RB35 and RB75 use the same woof, diff tweet, similar enclosures

Rb vs RF (twin woofers)

..also crossover points

RB5 - 1950

RF3 - 1975

RF5 - 2500

RF7 - 2200

RB35 - 2350

RB75 - 2000

Help me out if you can or tell me what you think.

[michael hurd]

You noticed that your RB5's were way too bright? Hmm, the RB3 tested by andrew marshall of audio ideas guide had a slighly shelved treble, compared to others, which is useful in a smaller room.

The RF7 tweeter will not fit in your bookshelves, even if you could gnaw a larger hole ( 8" vs 6" ), the horn lens would overlap the woofer frame. The Rf7 tweeter also has a larger throat/driver (1.75" vs 1") and magnetic structure.

The Rb75 uses an integral horn and motorboard assembly, meaning that the horn is not removable. It does however have an 8" square horn and utilizes the 1.75" driver. Maybe selling the RB5's and upgrading to the RB75 is the way to go.

[white_shadow]

Mhurd, I was specifically writing about the RB5, not the RB3.

"You noticed that your RB5's were way too bright? Hmm, the RB3 tested by andrew marshall..."

In your reasoning would you also compare the SB3 to the RB5? If Andy had reviewed the SB3, would you bring that up! I've owned the RB5's for almost four years now, and they have always seemed forward. Not more so than in my current configuration. But regardless they are bright to me.

Regarding tweeter mix/n/match, it was a suggestion. I was also refering to the compression driver not the horn assembly. You are right the RF7 tweeter is 1.75", but this is not the width of the the throat in the horn assembly. Both the RF7 and RB5 as well as the other R-line (previous R-line) have square horns, not 8 x 6. The tweeter may fit, meaning the four mounting screws of the RF7 tweeter match up with the horn assembly of the RB5 or RF3 in your case. (I bet they do)

This is info for people that are able and willing to "DIY" With some modifications to just the crossover alone. Sell my RB5's, no, they just need some upgrading.

By the way try bi-amping your RF3's with a secondary amp if you haven't already. I've decided to leave my RB5's bi-amped. Turn the secondary amp up 30-50% or so since the woofer has less sensitivity. Turn it up just until the sound become off-balance. You will find that the bass from the RF3's can be incredible.

[Deang]

The circuit is fine. I don't know what amps you are using, but I ran RB-5s with a sub for two years and thought it sounded killer. If you can solder, just upgrade the capacitors with some Auricaps. You'll get a smoother overall sound, more clarity (not to be confused with "brighter"), better imaging -- with an absence of hash and grain at low to moderate listening levels, and reduced harshness at high SPLs.

I like the forward, "live" sound of Klipsch speakers -- that's why I use them. Other speakers just put me to sleep.

[white_shadow]

I checked the components on my RB5 crossover and it is the exact same crossover as the RF3. Of course this depends on whether or not the RF3 schematic does belong to the RF3 (the schematic recently posted)

A few other things, the RB5 woofers nominal impedance is 6 ohms, the tweeters are 2.9 ohms. The impedance seen by the amplifier is 6.4 ohms.

Which makes me wonder if I should change my output from 8 ohm to 4 ohm. That will have to wait.

Getting back to the crossover biz, I could understand that Klipsch uses the same crossover on differenet products and that the impedances of the driver as well as the tweeter would alter the crossover point slightly. This could almost be the case with the RF3 with a difference of 25 Hz in the crossover. But wouldn't the impedance of the load change as the drivers impedances change throughout the audio range. It doesn't look as though there are any impedance corrections in the crossover.

Has anyone else ever gone over this before and tried experimentally finding the speakers parameters as well as experimenting with Klipschs design.