MD1032 Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 I'm all for participating in this modding thing as long as it isn't too involved. Now, how could I safely completely seal the port? I wonder if it would sound good, seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaZero Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 ---------------- On 11/5/2004 9:14:40 PM bagga wrote: i just read this entire thread and i'm amazed!! it's very cool you people are modding your klipsch MM systems! i think i have some really usefull information to add too. regarding the dreaded "bOOmyness", i believe this is merely the fault of the extremely high cut-off or crossover in the sub! i'm just guestimating but i would say the crossover is around 250hz, or the low end of a guys voice!! that's waaaay high for a sub. after all, subs should only be playing the "sub" end of the sound right? try this out: play some music that has a pretty full range of frequency in it. rock, jazz, rap, drum n bass, whatever. when it's playing disconnect the satellites from the sub and listen, you can almost hear the entire song through the sub. this is what's causing the BOOMy, muddyness! since the sub is playing the midrange too, it can't concentrate on the tight, deep punch we are all looking for! get it?? so i think all we need to do is figure out how to change the crossover so that the cut off is either variable, which would be really nice, or just modify what ever is setting the current 250hz cutoff so that it is lower, around say 120 hz. i am 99% sure this will cure the bOOmyness we're up against. for an even easier example try to find a sub that does have a "variable crossover", and while there's music playing try adjusting the crossover as high as it goes. you will definitely notice that the music starts sound a LOT "muddier", less precise, and down right sloppier. as you turn the crossover down to around 100 - 70 hz, the sound get's nice and punchy, very clear, and sounds deep and tight! i'm going to look around on the great wide intarweb for information on sub crossovers, i'll post again when i find stuff! Happy Modding ~zeric~ ---------------- Err the Promedia series, have always had the lowest crossovers in Multimedia, they are 2-pole crossovers at 120hz 12/db octave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaZero Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 ---------------- On 11/26/2004 9:04:20 PM MD1032 wrote: I'm all for participating in this modding thing as long as it isn't too involved. Now, how could I safely completely seal the port? I wonder if it would sound good, seriously. ---------------- Well I did it once; it did sound a tad tighter. However (as expected) wasn't as efficent down low. To be honest, there just isn't enough power going into the 4.1 sub to overcome the lower efficency of the sealed design, just not powerful enough. But thats my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1032 Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 So what can I seal it with then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileywiley Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Just a note, I have replaced the wires running to my sats and it makes quite a differance, especially eliminating static and outside noises. Actually, I did just because I have wall-mounted mine, and the stocks were much too short, but it's really rather easy if you have a little experience with a saudering iron. And, for the guy that said the crossover was at 250hz.....To my knowledge, it's actually at 120, pretty darn good for MM speakers, and part of the reason ppl liked these things so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftsman Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 I thought sending an electronic signal through dental floss was a waste of time and now you have proven it correct!! I've been wanting to replace the "wire" for a while now but I've just been too lazy to do it. I was just wondering what gauge wire did you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OuTpaTienT Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I replaced the speaker wire in my 2.1 system and it made a world of difference. I completely did away with the 1/8" plug. I ran Monster Cable into the back of the sats and soldered it directly to the terminals. Soon as I fired 'em up I could hear the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftsman Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Don't forget to seal the holes for the speaker wire so that you don't get any air leakage.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1032 Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/14/2005 11:58:15 PM OuTpaTienT wrote: I replaced the speaker wire in my 2.1 system and it made a world of difference. I completely did away with the 1/8" plug. I ran Monster Cable into the back of the sats and soldered it directly to the terminals. Soon as I fired 'em up I could hear the difference. ---------------- How does this relate to the thread Out? Yeah, we get mixed impressions about whether the cable upgrades make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftsman Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 My personal view is that anything thicker than the dental floss provided will yield an improvement. How much an improvement will depend on how sensitive your ears are and how fat your wallet is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftsman Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Finally, I've been able to get some time and get some sound deadening material to try out. I ordered a sheet of Sonic Barrier Damping Materials from PartsExpress - part #0260-530. I placed a 7.5" x 8" piece at the bottom of sub enclosure. I realize that the bottom of the enclosure is larger than the piece I put in but I didn't want the foam to get in the way of the printed circuit board and the 120 VAC! So what did I hear? With that one sheet in the bottom of the sub, I heard a lot less echoing and a lot of the "boominess" was gone. The bass was tighter and more controlled. I could turn the bass control up higher without hearing the "distortion" a lot of people are complaining about. All in all, I'm very happy with the one piece of foam. Of course, I still have over 7/8 of the piece of foam left over so I just might add a bit more foam to other parts of the enclosure as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1032 Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Yeah, I've always wondered what some real damping would do to this sub. Raising mine off my carpeted floor would help I'm guessing. Less vibrations going into the floor that way. As for the crossovers, I think they're a tad high but not horendous. Some bass guitar notes end up entirely in the sattelites for me, to the point where the sub is only supplying undertones. xover modification would be interesting but probably not worth the effort. It think we should work with the enclosure for now and see what we can do for the boominess. I really can't find anything around my house that could obviously seal the port right, any ideas? I'm going to try lifting the sub different levels off the ground with some kind of books or something and see if it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftsman Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Getting the sub off of the ground may not help too much. The main problem is sonic energy inside of the enclosure itself - get rid of the energy, get rid of the boominess and distortion. I'm pretty convinced the best way to go is to dampen the enclosure and supplement the capacitance available to the amp.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1032 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Well what would be the best way to dampen them? What's in the PM's for damping in stock form? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftsman Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 I don't know what is the best way of dampening - it seems to me that it is a continueous road to the best way. So far I just have that 7.5" x 8" block of Sonic Barrier laying flat on the bottom of the inside of the sub enclosure. I'm going to add more Sonic Barrier to different spots. According to what I have read on sound dampening and subwoofer design, there are a couple of simple rules: 1. In subs, the fiber fill (that stuff that looks like cotton candy) is not recommend or needed. However, good sound dampening for the inside walls of enclosure is recommended. Without it, the sound will reflect off of the interior surfaces and just bounce around causing interference with the new sound waves being generated by the sub. This interference makes the sub seem more boomy and loose (since the old sound waves mash with the new ones). 2. Adding sound dampening to a speaker enclosure will make the enclosure sound bigger. 3. With the dampening in place, the enclosure will not vibrate as much which should reduce the amount of smearing of sound caused by the cabinet. What's in the PMs in stock form? Absolutely nothing other than the cabinet itself. However the cabinet's construction is pretty good since they are using MDF and corner braces to reduce the vibration. Unfortunately, they don't have any foam in the sub. Since I had a bit more time on my hands, I've also started to dampen the satelittes. Instead of using the Sonic Barrier (a little too thick for such small subs), I've switched over to some Vinyl Acoustic Damping Sheets. I've cut small inserts that will fit between the plastic supports inside of the sat's. Overall, I must have doubled the weight of the satelitte's cabinet! What's the difference? Well first off, when I tap the speaker cabinet now, I hear a nice low thud rather than the normal hollow echo. Second off, I can hear less vibration in the cabinet. What does that mean for the music? When I listen to vocals from Heather Sullivan - available from Garageband.com, her voice is much smoother and clear. It seems that I'm listening to a cleaner clearer version of the original song. A little more testing using a piano piece from Garageband.com revealed that the instrumentals are a lot cleaner. Each note can now be heard clearly without an echoing that was present in the un-dampened satelitte enclosure. The tone also seems more rounded and smooth with a good match with the 4.1's sub. All of testing of the satelittes were using two dampened satelittes and two unmodified satelittes connected to the front channels one set at a time through a modified Chaintech AV-710 sound card in 2 Channel Hi-Res mode. The Chaintech has also been modified with a greater amount of decoupling capacitance. My 4.1 Amp is also modified as noted in my various postings above. BTW - I'm using that modified new version CP-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftsman Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I did some more sound dampening on the sub today. I added a 4" x 7.5" piece of Sonic Barrier to the top of the sub cabinet (above the amp module) as well as 2 - 2.75" x 7.5" pieces to the front of the cabinet (next to the vent). I've left the area around the vent hole free so that air can freely pass in and out of the sub box. The result? The lows from the sub seem more controlled with the majority of the boomines from the sub is gone at most volumes. The fluttering at high bass/volume levels is still present but is reduced - controlled. What's next? I will add the Vinyl sheets to the areas where I can't put any Sonic Barrier due to closeness to the amp (don't want the foam to burn) or closeness to the vent. Let's see if I can get the last of it under control! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1032 Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 I'd love to see pics of how you do this. Where can I get this stuff? I'm definitely willing to crack open my 4.1 amp and put this stuff in if it means less boominess. Interesting you mentioned the corner support. That was the first thing I thought of was bracing it somehow, but now that it already is, I can just worry about putting stuff in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftsman Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 You can get all of the sound dampening stuff from Parts Express. They carry all sorts of stuff for speakers and subs. As for pictures, there really isn't too much to post. Just picture your 4.1 sub with a piece of 3/4 inch grey foam on the bottom.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1032 Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 All right, I'll get around to it someday. Meanwhile I was thinking of something for the port - saran wrap? What the heck, if I could find a way to seal it across the port on the inside, it would be mostly sonically transparent but wouldn't allow airflow. Obviously I'd have to use more than one layer, otherwise it might break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftsman Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 You can always use the Canadian standard fix-it all... Duct Tape. And I believe that you will only need one layer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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