Classical talk (long)

[garymd]

Here's the link to "The #1 Classical Album":

http://www.iclassics.com/productDetail?contentId=13119

This is a pretty good site to browse through. Lots of good stuff.

[Woodog]

follow this link

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-7396834-6136901

to:

Classical Music for Dummies (IDG press)

As a professional musician I can attest to the quality of this excellent book, and it suggests available, decent recordings.

It is inexpensive *and* a fun read with more than a handful of music history thrown in.

At the same time, every recording that I've bought based on a recommendation posted here has been excellent.

Forrest

p.s. as to the Toccata and Fugue in D minor....

I think Virgil Fox's renditions are sublime. His registrations (variations of tone color) are really interesting. It is one of his strongest points as an organist.

[garymd]

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On 10/26/2004 2:06:31 PM Woodog wrote:

follow this link

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-7396834-6136901

to:

Classical Music for Dummies (IDG press)

As a professional musician I can attest to the quality of this excellent book, and it suggests available, decent recordings.

It is inexpensive *and* a fun read with more than a handful of music history thrown in.

At the same time, every recording that I've bought based on a recommendation posted here has been excellent.

Forrest

p.s. as to the Toccata and Fugue in D minor....

I think Virgil Fox's renditions are sublime. His registrations (variations of tone color) are really interesting. It is one of his strongest points as an organist.

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I've read part of this book also and it is excellent.

Good to see you post again Forrest! Don't be such a stranger.

[CaptnBob]

Check out the E. Power Biggs recordings of the Toccata and Fugue and Passacaglia and Fugue (and while you're at it, the music he did with the New England Brass Ensemble.) Although not terribly well recorded (a pox on you, CBS) they are the performances which introduced a generation to pipe organs.

Virgil Fox is showy and fun, but not particularly accurate. His recording of Widor's Finale to the Fifth Organ Symphony on Crystal could jump start a cinder block.

If you want to see just how good your sound system is, try "Pomp & Pipes" on Reference Recordings - especially the last track. Don't play it too loud, though, the first time through - there are genuine sub 20hz. pedals at work there.

[Rickieheinz]

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On 10/25/2004 1:30:55 PM dubai2000 wrote:

Gentlemen,

I admit that much as I enjoy (at least most of the time) this section of the forum, I am also fond of reading about music (performances and recordings) as can sometimes be done in the Hi-Rez section of the AA. Now, we also have such a weekly thread in our DVD section, but as far as I know, nothing of the kind exists for classical music. I know that this type of music is enjoyed be relatively few people, but one think I learnt from getting together my Klipsch-based rig: with the right setup, I have broadened my musical horizon and there might be a few people around who wouldn’t mind getting to know more about that ‘classical stuff’. Another prejudice is that classical music is kind of elitist and one needs a lot of ‘musical education’ to enjoy a piece by Beethoven of Mozart. Let me say straight away that I am no musician, was far too lazy to learn a musical instrument (to my parent’s dismay), cannot read a musical score and am not really familiar with musical terminology and a lot of classical ‘genres’ (such as chamber music, pre-Beethoven etc.). So any professional musician, please ignore my ignorance.

So why am I posting in this section of the forum? Well, first of all because I feel that it is my ‘audio home’ where I have learnt a lot (hope you don’t object to a bit of sentimentality) and second: without my current gear a lot of musical treasures might go unnoticed...and that IS ‘old-fashioned 2 channel stereo’.

But enough of those preliminaries. Today I want to turn to music which I not only know relatively little about, but also which is not easy to reproduce/listen to at home – organ music. I remember many years ago I visited a spacious church when suddenly the resident organist started to play. I don’t recall what he played (I think on piece was by Liszt) but I suddenly knew why the organ is sometimes called ‘King of Instruments’. And try as I might, I could never even approach that feeling with my home gear. Obviously a number of well-known factors come to mind: not only the speaker’s inability to play that low, no, also the space in which such an instrument is played. Even at relatively modest volume it felt as if real waves were hitting me...unforgettable!

Now which organ piece do many people know (even without being aware of its composer or title? Answer: J.S. Bach’s Toccata and Fugue BWV 565.

The recordings:

Lionell Rogg (I) on a restored Silbermann organ (originally from 1761)

on :Harmonia Mundi HMX 290773

Werner Jacob also on a Silbermann organ but in a different cathedral

on: EMI 5738782

Karl Richter at the organ in Victoria Hall, Geneva, Switzerland

on: Decca 455291-2

Wayne Marshall at the organ of Coventry Cathedral (UK)

on: HMV 572165 2 (only from HMV shops or their internet site)

Lionell Rogg (II) – organ unknown

on: EMI 572556 2

Simon Preston – organ unknown, but I think a modern German instrument

on: DG 463016-2 (a compilation disc)

I should add that L. Rogg (I) and W. Jacob are part of boxed sets containing ‘all’ of Bach’s organ works.

So what about those discs? First of all, there is something in all of those recordings which one might like, but still there are also quite a few differences. If you are looking for those foundation shaking depth, go for the Richter (actually recorded in...October 1954...in stereo!). Otherwise his performance reminds me of a Bach style which is no longer ‘fashionable’ these days. To my ears he tries to imitate a lot of orchestral ‘legato’ and his tempi are on the slow side (actually the slowest of the bunch), but his ‘registration’ (hopefully the right word) is not too plain. If you are looking for ‘huge’ sound, the Jacob is for you, here on can tell that one is listening to a large instrument in a large space. I guess even more spacious must be Coventry Cathedral, but Marshall’s recording lacks a bit of impact (though as a fan of ambience information I like that disc, too). Preston? Fast, articulate playing, but the sound of the organ is not at all my cup of tea (at least at full power). The same – I am about to write blandness of tone – being ‘bright most of the time) mars Jacob’s recording as well. Better in that respect is Rogg(II) but most musical pleasure I got from Rogg (I). He varies the colour of the instrument (is that what is called register?) often enough to keep your interest in the piece alive. And I think this IS one of the reasons why –at least to my ears - organ music can sound terrible and be...I admit it... boring! But if you are looking for something different, see if Harmonia Mundi hasn’t issued a compilation of this set.

Right, that’s it for today. Next time (if there is any) will be shorter and I really hope others will help to turn this into a ‘regular’ forum feature. Personally I’d be happy to read whichever classical discs you have enjoyed (or not!) and if that’s interesting for you as well, please post your impressions/likes/dislikes. Thanks for reading.

Wolfram

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I only have a couple of organ cd's but there are so many beautiful pieces within classical music. If you like Bach's music you may be interested in other Baroque music as well, like Pachelbel's canon. Also there is a stunningly beautiful piece(though its romantic period)by Grieg called dawn or morning from the pier gynt suite that I believe nearly everone would love if they heard it.

[jt1stcav]

Having grown up listening to classical pipe organ music, there really isn't anything more I can add to this thread that hasn't already been mentioned by others here (well done, everyone)!

I will say that besides the obvious Bach Toccata and Fugue performance, I also enjoy this particular piece transcribed for symphony orchestra by the great Leopold Stokowski, by Wendy Carlos on her Moog synthesizer, and by these 4 college students who call themselves "The J.S. Bach Experience" who perform BWV 565 (and many others) on their electric guitars, bass, and drum kit. Bach and Heavy Metal...what an interesting combination!

[maxg]

There is Opera and there is Wagner - how true - cant remember who said it in the thread but it sums up my feelings exactly!!

I also cant believe Mark's list of Opera's as it is so close to my own list of top choices it took me a while to realize I hadn't written it!!

For Opera my choice of composers - in order is:

Verdi, Rossini, Puccini, Bizet and Mozart.

That is not to say I prefer these over the Wagner - just that I do not regard them as competitors. Wagner stands on his own and without compare - you just have to be in a mood for him.

Just for completeness my Opera choices from each are as follows:

Verdi - Traviata, Aida, Rigoletto (not Il Trovadore - for some reason that one just doesnt do it for me - same for Attila, Ernani (allthough there are a few great Arias in that one) and Macbeth).

Rossini - Barber of Seville (again Othello doesnt do it for me - Sorry Wolfram)

Puccini - La Boheme, Tosca, Madame Butterfly (not Turandot - "Nessun Dorma" notwithstanding)

Bizet - Carmen

Mozart - Don Giovani, Marriage of Figaro, Cose Fan Tutte, Magic Flute

Whilst these are listed pretty much in my order of preference that does not mean that I think this is a good order for someone to follow if they want to investigate Opera.

I'd also say, that for a beginner, I would not get too hung up on the performance at this stage. Most performances that get recorded are good enough to get across the composer's intent to a sufficient degree to enable someone to decide whether they like the Opera or not. Once you have decided a given work is for you, then it may be time to see how other performances and interpretations appeal.

For the people on here - who are to greater or lesser degrees, audiophiles, the quality of the recording, in the early days of Opera appreciation, may be just as important.

Having said that - hearing Callas in La Boheme is a truely stunning experience - beyond compare (except Callas doing Madame Butterfly and....lets not go there just yet huh!!)

In summary I would say if you cant find an Opera you like in the above list then Opera aint for you. Again I would start with extracts rather than the full thing - you will lose a little of the story line (although the flyleafs usually explain both the story of the Opera and illustrate what parts you are listening to) but the result is rather more compact and digestible for a first sitting.

I am not a big fan of disks with highlights from many Operas - you get no sense of the flow of any of the works presented - even if you do get the most well known arias.

[dubai2000]

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On 10/27/2004 8:01:11 AM mdeneen wrote:

Another general comment on opera. While trained folk can easily "appreciate" the differences between great instrument musicians - say a violin performance of Stern v. Perlman, that's not so easy for the rest of us. But with singers, it is apparent to any listener the differences between Pavarotti and Corelli, or Callas and Sutherland. It is not only apparent, but becomes one of the central enjoyments.

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And that's where the right choice of e recording gets tricky! Of course in a sense the fact that a well-known record company has chosen certain artists should kind of guarantee a certain standard of performance, but quite often this simply isn't the case. Perhaps a certain artist wasn't available for a recording or ill, or it was felt that a 'big' name (i.e. Doming, Pavarotti etc.) would boost sales, despite the fact that those voices simply weren't 'right' for the required role. So how does one chose? Well, hopefully we will cover that ground later on .

Wolfram

[dubai2000]

Now THAT sounds very familiar, Mark . I guess perhaps the only composer I find difficult to listen to in mono recordings is Gustav Mahler.

For those who want to dip into opear and get a disk which is worth listening to in terms of sound: the recent Living Stereo SACD/CD release of Leontyne Price singing arias by Verdi and Puccini. If you compare for example tracks 11 and 12 you can cleary differentiate how she tries to show (in vocal terms) the difference between a desperate prima donna (Tosca) and a rather helpless servant (Liu from 'Turandot'). And if you think that a soprano always has to sound 'shrill', here you can hear that this doesn't have to be the case (her timbre is actually quite 'dark'). Plus you can judge for yourself if you prefer a closer (Tracks 4-7) or more spacious recording (actually in the same location and by the same sound engineer).

Wolfram

[D-MAN]

I was after a cd of Rachmananoff's (sp) 2nd Piano Concerto and asked the salesperson in the classical section which brand/performer to get.

His answer was "do you want the best performance OR the best recording?" so I took the recommended best performance, of course. I figured that I could listen "past" the recording and get at the musical performance. Well, maybe not.

Oh, brother! doesn't that sum it up on classical?!

DM

[dubai2000]

So which one did he suggest ?

Wolfram