maxg Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 Lots of input - thanks Guys! In no particular order: Wolfram, I will see who distributes the Verdier here and take a look at it. Certainly an interesting option! And dont mention Thorens! Guy, Not in a million years - I would be surprized (but wouldn't rule out the possibility) if those would match my current setup. Gary, Never heard of the Vector tonearm - again I will need to find out if it is imported here and then try to find out if anyone runs it with the Shelter. 3D, That is not the reference- that is the Revolution - it is a very good table indeed but something of an oddity in the range. Also note that the arm on that table is Tangential TQ-I and not the Tangential Master TQ-I. If I were to go the route of the standard TQ-I arm I would probably do it on the Solution anyway - simply on the basis of the look of the thing. It would save over 2,500 Euros doing that - and is an option I am considering. No Disc, Yes there are people who use the JMW tonearm and the Shelter - there are people who use the RB250 and the Shelter - it is a reasonable match, but not as good a match as the Project 9 with the Shelter - you have to hear the 2 setups to understand the difference. Wherever I go it has to be a step up or there is no point. Radio, Nottingham - keeps coming up as an option and I keep ignoring it. I did talk to the guy that owns the company a year or so ago - I might follow up on this. Certainly the best value for money option - but there are so many used Nottinghams on the market over here one wonders why. Cant help feeling there must be something wrong somewhere. Again thanks all - I am just gutted I am back at this stage. I wonder how hard it would be to make one from scratch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 ---------------- On 12/22/2004 3:25:25 AM maxg wrote: Gary, Never heard of the Vector tonearm - again I will need to find out if it is imported here and then try to find out if anyone runs it with the Shelter. ---------------- Max, Basis makes the Vector. It's a fine tonearm that goes very well with Basis TTs. Hopefully current exchange rates would help? Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arco Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Max, Just two more propositions: 1) The AUDIOMECA Romance-Romeo will do the trick for less than EUR 3000 and 2) Do not forget the KUZMAS http://www.kuzma.si which - in my view - might have the best price/performance ratio on the greek market. As a plus, and one should never forget this parameter, both are distributed by people who will back you up no matter what. I speak from experience, here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 Aristidis, Nice to see you popping by the forum. 2 interesting suggestions too. How about popping round to the house to hear the scale of the problem? Cheers Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 These tables reportedly do well when compared against ClearAudio: http://www.teresaudio.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Max, I honestly think that you're looking in the wrong places for the wrong turntables. Though all of the above have very contemporary looks, their performance is not that great. They won't sound any better than a properly set up Garrard 301 or a Technics SP10 or any vintage EMT. IMO, There aren't many tonearms that can rival the Dynavector DV505, FR64S or an SME 3012R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arco Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 O.K. Max, I'll give you a call for a meeting in the beginning of next week, if you are available. Have a nice Christmas until then! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I was trying to find a picture of my first record player, which had excellent PRaT. Trouble is, I can't remember what make and model it was (I was only 9 years old or so). I think it may have been a GE. Here's a picture of the general style of my old player. It had detachable speakers and everything. You could stack 45s on it. It had a headphone jack. The record player folded up and you could close it like a suitcase and carry it from room to room. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48649&item=5737346347&rd=1#ebayphotohosting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 Thanks Paul - I will take it under advisement. Actualy my first record player was a radio shack with built in amp to little speakers of its own and a wonderful S-arm. Considering it played every day, lived on the carpet and was never seviced it was quite an item in the value for money stakes. I think I had it from 9 to 17 years old - and it lived on after I left home - I think my parents only dumped it when they moved house a few years later. Guy, I know you really do believe this - lets just put it down to different experiences and interpretations of experiences. I have heard many many TT's and am just one of those people who hold little fondness for the period tables of the 60's, 70's and 80's. IME tables have come a long way in the last 10 years or so - with new materials and higher engineering capabilities, but, they are often a total SOD to setup. Get it wrong and most things will sound better - old record players, tape recorders, 64 kb/s MP3 - well maybe not - but you get the idea. Get the setup right however - and people like me go weak at the knees. That is where, in some ways, I am now. Which does make me wonder why on earth I am doing this....again...a question I was really hoping to avoid. ENOUGH - time to go looking for a new table - to hell with reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 ---------------- On 12/22/2004 4:06:22 PM maxg wrote: Guy, I know you really do believe this - lets just put it down to different experiences and interpretations of experiences. I have heard many many TT's and am just one of those people who hold little fondness for the period tables of the 60's, 70's and 80's. IME tables have come a long way in the last 10 years or so - with new materials and higher engineering capabilities, but, they are often a total SOD to setup. Get it wrong and most things will sound better - old record players, tape recorders, 64 kb/s MP3 - well maybe not - but you get the idea. Get the setup right however - and people like me go weak at the knees. That is where, in some ways, I am now. Which does make me wonder why on earth I am doing this....again...a question I was really hoping to avoid. ENOUGH - time to go looking for a new table - to hell with reason.---------------- Max, It's not only that I believe so but I speak from expereience. I've know the High End audio business well enough and heard many turntables that many audiophiles consider great. My business partner has the most amazing turntable collection that anyone can dream of, which include a pair of Micro Seiki SZ-1 turntables and few BL-111s, SX-777s RX-5000 etc. He also uses a Goldmund Reference, EMT 927 & 950, a Thorens Reference, a 400 lbs "American Sound" turntable and the list goes on. I've been listening to these turntables on a daily basis and have compared them to many highly regarded, modern, turntables. IMO, most modern ones are still far behind. I remember that your wife wanted a shopping trip in NYC for her birthday. Join her and I'll take you to hear these amazing machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 ---------------- On 12/22/2004 4:50:02 PM Guy Landau wrote: ---------------- a 400 lbs "American Sound" turntable ---------------- What's this one like? Do you have any photos of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 ---------------- On 12/22/2004 5:48:47 PM paulparrot wrote: ---------------- On 12/22/2004 4:50:02 PM Guy Landau wrote: ---------------- a 400 lbs "American Sound" turntable ---------------- What's this one like? Do you have any photos of it? ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Max, in addition to these interesting TT-arm combinations, I hope you can give a Basis or Basis/Vector a spin, as I think it will come off well. The Vector arm is a sort of unipivot but very solidly damped, and FWIW handles my Transfiguration very well. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 Larry, I promise I will give the Basis options a full evaluation - with the Vector arm. Guy, What can I say. I have heard many older TT designs and they have never lived up to my expectations. I think the key phrase is "properly setup". Most TT's when setup properly will sing like a J-bird - the biggest varying factor being how much effort and work it takes to: a/ Get them setup properly in the first place. b/ Keep them setup optimally. This is the main reason I am avoiding the Linns of the world. Every time I talk to a linnie, from the conversations I have, they seem to spend as much time keeping the damn thing optimized as they do listening to it. I get the feeling this is true for older designs in general (although as with most generalizations it aint always true - if not all generalizations?). I dont really mind if it takes weeks to get the thing setup properly - as long as once it is done it stays there. All, Over the last 24 hours I have been boiling down my requirements more and more and have come to the following conclusion. Whatever TT I end up with has got to be a simple design - high mass. It should be virtually maintenance free. Thinking about it - a single motor is preferable over multiple motors - despite my previous leaning towards the Clearaudio with 3 motors. It should also be relatively pretty (problem for the Nottinghams - they are UGLY!!). I dont mind if it looks like a TT (the Clearaudio looks like something from NASA - that is nice but not essential). It should also be upgradable (which usually means you can add mass - maybe upgrade the bearing and possibly the motor unit itself) - or perfect! The arm, as said repeatedly, has to be a good match for the 901. I suppose there is a possibility that when this cart eventually dies I will replace it with something else - but as far as I can see there are only 3 choices I would consider: 1. Another 901. 2. The 90X. 3. The ZYX Airy. I think all of these place similar demands on the arm (less sure about the ZYX) so whatever arm it is should be adjustable to suit each. There is at least one other table I have to investigate it was at the show and really did sound superb: Thing is - I cant even remember what it is - but that cartridge is the ZYX and boy did it sound GREAT!! Fortunately Tony knows the guy that brings them in so I will try to arrange a home demo (once I have found out how much it costs - he did tell me there but I cant remember now). Actually I know him too - he is a member of the ACA - but I dont have his contact details. I have a horrible feeling the setup is rather expensive - despite its simple looks - possibly because of it. Anyway - lots to looks at and investigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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