pocketchange Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I am interested in taking a KG 5.5 to a new level (?) I'm looking for the driver specs. Impedence and such. Is this info available from KLIPSCH? Turning it into a 3/way speaker by sloping one of the 10s to the middle octaves and soften the horn a touch and throwing away the rag that's stuffed in it... Any input would be greatfully accepted.. pc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re-designing a passive crossover, now that sounds complicated to me. Have you done something like that before? As for turning it into a 3 way by sloping one of the 10's to the middle octave, I've tried that on my RF-7s using a digital active crossover. I didn't like it much, but that may be just because I didn't do it well enough. How would you do something like that? Would you use the same crossover slope set to a lower frequency on one of the drivers? Or use a shallower slope set lower? Or shelf down one of the drivers and shelf up the other toward the crossover frequency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocketchange Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 When/if DeanG (Dean Wescott) finds the time to respond, we will have the answer to this situation... I would rather pull the punchy character out of the speaker with an XO mod than a EQ, it keeps the signal cleaner than adding "something" that doesn't need to be there. Both 10s are identical, using one of them from 35hz to 7/800hz and rolling in the other one where the bottom driver slopes off should work. If understand sub design correctly, using drivers that are the same size create a bumb. That's why a 2 channel sub has only one driver or 2 drivers of different sizes (to avoid the bumb). In the case of the KG5.5 bottom is not lacking and if one of the 10s could be driven without having to pull sub duty, it just might smooth out the speaker and take it to a higher level. I would like to also be able to turn down the horn/tweeter flamethrower if possible. Although my wife put a table cloth over the horn which works well at controlling the glare. My other option... sell em. Trouble is; I like the KG5.5 and with a little help, they will respond like the other improved XO designs have proved. Time will tell.. pc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Ah, that's different. I hadn't tried letting just one 10" driver produce the lower bass while the other produces midrange. That's a real 3 way. I had been trying a 2.5 way. For what it's worth, I just tried it. I set the crossover between the two 10s at about 722Hz. This resulted in me having to turn down the tweeter about 6db, so you're going to lose about that much efficiency. The upper 10 ends up working as a passive radiator as well as a midrange. It actually sounds pretty nice at first listen! And I haven't even tried to EQ it, other than turn down the tweeter. Hmm, I'd be interested in hearing what others think about this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Forget about turning them into three-ways, which is just a bad idea in so many ways it would take me an hour to write out all the reasons. As far as redesigning the network goes, you would need to send the drivers to someone to measure all of the parameters, and have access to modeling and optimization software to model the new networks. At this point, you will have spent more money than what the speakers are worth. If you like the general character and sonic signature of the speakers, simply replace the capacitors in the networks with some nice polypropylenes -- if you don't -- sell them. BTW, Klipsch speakers are typically very unforgiving when used with low quality power amps/receivers and/or sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 That's logical. It makes sense that it shouldn't work. For one thing, the cabinet and port was made for two 10s working together in the bass range, not for a single with a 10" passive radiator. I think you should sell those 5.5s and get a real 3 way. I think I'm going to do the same when I can afford to. I'm really intrigued with Al K's mod he's proposing for the Klipschorn. As much as I love my RF-7s, I'm going to make an argument that two 10"s arranged like they are have some real disadvantages for producing the midrange. They're not equidistant from the listener, and they're trying to cover the same tones. The result is uneven response due to cancellation and build up effects. The midrange is rough as a result, and the glare gets attributed to the horn more than it should. I swear, since I tried this little test in response to this post, it's obvious to me that vocals have sweetened, and the glare on some instruments has vanished! No EQ setting can do that. So I think you're on the right track as far as getting a 3 way. But yeah, what Dean said: get a speaker that's made for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 ---------------- On 4/30/2005 3:44:36 PM timbley wrote: This resulted in me having to turn down the tweeter about 6db, so you're going to lose about that much efficiency. ---------------- Actually, you're going to loose at least 12db efficiency because you'll have to include some EQ in your passive crossover to bring the bass back up. You really lose a lot of bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Just out of curiosity, I checked this configuration out a little more. Suprising! I just looked at the RTA, and the bass response wasn't so bad after all. The tweeter really only needed 3db attenuation, with the bass needing a +3 db, 6 db/octave shelf at about 385 Hz. I've always measured a significant bump in response at about 630 Hz, so I crossed the two 10s over around that frequency, leaving a slight gap to cause the bump to come down. It works great, it sounds good to my ears, and it measures nice and smooth through the midrange. What's really intersting is that I used to notice a lot of lumpiness in response if I measured in stereo vs. measuring each speaker by itself. That is much, much less the case now. OK, I'm going to fess up, I thought this was a very bad idea when I first read your post. I simulated it with my active crossover because I thought I was going to be able to demonstrate with some imperical data just how bad it would be. But from what I've tried so far, I think this could work very well if you could somehow get the passive crossover designed correctly, and if you didn't mind some loss in effeciency. Now I must go back to fixing the @#$%#@ washing machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocketchange Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Being on the right track is a nice thing to know. Impreical design sometime isn't "always" in a straight line. Maybe that's the reasoning for various speaker designs. My hopes are that locating a designer with flexability doesn't become a "bumpy" obstacle. And as I've noted from conversation with LevI and his dealings with Madison Sound, their success with a parts only upgrade, I feel we may be on the "right tract". I'm hoping driver info from Klipsch is available. After that is on hand, plugging it into a software program is next. Patience, Old Age and Craftyness, pc PS. SX1250 FWIW... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 It's day 2 now with this setup, and something really special is happening here. The midrange is honey sweet. I don't think I've ever heard a more captivating midrange. You can see that the midrange driver is covering a very narrow range of the audio spectrum. Yet the power level meters show that the middle driver is getting more than the tweeter, and usually as much as the bass driver, sometimes more, this despite the fact that I've boosted the bass. I don't know if the same wonderous midrange effect would happen with a passive implementation, because I'm not sure if it is due to a lack of driver overlap in the same frequency, or becuase the driver and amp have been unloaded from bass duties. I'm thinking the latter, because I've tried the 2 1/2 way configurations before without the same effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 In case I'm coming across wrong here, I just want to make it clear that I'm not suggesting you should actually do this modification. I'm just experimenting because I'm curious and because of the way I'm set up right now it's easy for me to try things like this. I hope somebody else finds it interesting. It doesn't sound better overall, and I doubt you'd be happy with it no matter how well it was implemented. it just does something really wonderful to the midrange, which confirms to me that in the future I'd like to get into a 3 way design, and preferably full horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocketchange Posted May 2, 2005 Author Share Posted May 2, 2005 I've been informed one of the 10s would need to be partitianed for the three way deal to be feasible. OK, that's a big deal.. Also: Bailey @ Klipsch refused to release the specs for the drivers, the 3urd. I guess the BOSE suit has already passed the corporate pablum on... I continue to believe there's more than one way to skin a KG5.5 Anyone out here have a set up to plot these 5.5s? I'll be the first to sign up for a improved set of XOs. (done correctly). Then there's always Madison Sound with an improved parts upgrade per Levi' s suggestion. thru the fog pc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Why don't you just buy a set a three-ways -- it would be less money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Without reinventing the wheel, I would suggest that you possibly look into treating the room, or possibly adding an L-pad to attenuate the horn, if that is what you are after. It would be a heck of a lot cheaper than other approaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.