Erukian Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 This is ALL quoted, I'll even put quotes for you to know where I stop typing and where Zemo of Fix-IT Forums (writer of this article) starts. " Learning to listen Music involves and impacts everyone in so many ways, that the way music is treated nowadays is truly sad. Music is a deep and powerful tool, and should be treated as such. Sadly, most people dont know how to use this tool, hence, this guide! This guide will take you through the basics of the audiophile lingo, and teach you how to really listen to the music, not just hear it. As a result, you will not only enjoy your music more, but while attending live concerts, your heightened attention to sound will give you an even greater appreciation for the music. Keep in mind that the recorded samples linked to here will push your equipment to its limits. This is not damaging, but dont get frustrated if you cant really hear a certain part of the sound.maybe its time to upgrade! High Resolution - Rebeca Pidgeon - Spanish Harlem This is a very special recording with all the elements of an audiophile classic. First, Rebeccas voice should just breath. It should sound like there is space in front, behind, and to the sides. On high resolution systems, her voice will be so real, you will feel like you could reach out and touch her. Pay special attention to the bass. It should sound robust and deep, but also very detailed. You should listen closely for the sound of the fingers on the strings, or the strings occasionally hitting the fretboard. Also listen closely to the shaker. Each shake should sound distinct and different from the one before it. It should also sound like its place back in the soundstage (the area the music sounds like it fills). If they sound too similar, listen a couple more times.if still no dice, the system isnt resolving this fine detail. The string sound should occupy the same acoustic space as the rest of the band. The more you listen to this, the more youll understand what high resolution is all about. I still find myself finding new little pieces of detail each time I listen! Depth - Sara K. - If I Could Sing Your Blues The term depth is tossed around a lot in audio circles, and its meaning can be rather ambiguous.not this time. The trumpet that opens this piece was placed 10 feet away from the microphone, and provides us with a true test of depth reproduction. Sara should sound close, but her voice fills the studio with reverberation.listen to see if you can gauge the size of the studio. The guitar is intimate with a full, warm tone. Keep in mind that most modern records have artificial depth, added via rackmount effects and the like. These cannot be used reliably to gauge this important aspect of sound reproduction. Also keep in mind some of the high resolution queslisted for the sound of Saras lips smacking, or the pick (or fingernails) on the strings of the guitar. Atmosphere - Leny Andrade - Maiden Voyage There is a warm, inviting soundstage in this recording.the stage should be expansive, yet lennys voice is quite immediate (sounds close) with a wide dynamic range (lots of loud/soft contrast). The bass is full and warm, with the drums seeming to fill the room, forming a very lush recording. Youll find this one very relaxing. Midrange Purity - Livingston Taylor - Grandma's Hands On this acappella track, Livingston is accompanied by 3 soulful backup singers, and its a remarkable example of midrange purity. Try this: Snap your fingerslisten carefully to the sound that each snap makes. While listening to this recording, pay close attention to those recorded finger snaps. They should have the same unique, flesh and bone quality. Livingstons voice should have a good sense of chest. This meaning that you can hear that his whole body is contributing to the sound. It rather sounds like a person is singing, not a floating head, as is found in most recordings. His voice should sound very real, and very human. See if you can hear how many backup singers he has Naturalness - Ana Caram - Correnteza The natural acoustics of the church where this was recorded provided a perfect setting for this music. This piece opens with a rainforest of percussive effects and bird sounds, wich should envelop you. Next, the cello fills the church, to the point you can identify where its placed. Anas voice should sound so real, you should almost feel her breath as she sings. There should be no sense of an electronic glareyou should not hear your gear at all, only the music. Transparency - The Fred Hersh Trio - Played Twice Piano, bass, and drums. This recording is remarkably clean and powerful. Pay close attention the transient attack (the very start of the notewhether it starts sharply and abrupt, or lagging and slow) of the piano. Remember that the piano is a percussive instrument. The hammer strikes the strings.that percussive quality should be evident. The bass should sound warm and full, but not boomy. Each note should sound distinct. The pluck of the bass is heard quite clearly. The drums are setback behind the drums and the bass, and define the acoustics of the studio. This meaning that you should really get a feel for the size and wall coverings used in the studio, based on the drums sound. The cymbals sound very airy and delicate. If your system is capable, this recording will make the hardware seem to disappear, and only the music will remain. Presence - McCoy Tyner & Joe Henderson - Ask Me Now Concentrate on Joes dazzeling sax work. This was recorded in a large studio, where joe was facing the back wall, 15 feet away. He is 3 feet from the mic. The sound should seem as though its coming from just right of center.not from any specific speaker, but from thin air. Listen to the detail in this recording.his breath, the mechanical sound of the keys, and most important, that warm tone. Also listen carefully to the reflection of the sound off of the back wall. The more discrete the sound of that reflection, the more detail the system is capable of. Ask yourself as you listen, how much do I believe that a man is standing between those two speakers? Visceral Impact - Monty Alexander - Sweet Georgia Brown This is a truly exciting piece. Listen carefully.youll hear two drummers (jazz and rock), and two basses (acoustic and electric). On high res systems, the different acoustic settings of each drum kit should be rather obvious. This track features some stunning dynamics, so play it loud! Rhythm and Pace - Johnny Frigo - I Love Paris 77 year old Johnny Frigo is having a grand old time, as well as his whole band. This energy and excitement is easily conveyed in the music. Rhythm and Pace refers to a systems ability to translate energy and excitement in the music. This is that foot tapping, wanna get up and shake my groove thing sound. If youre not physically responding to this track, check your pulse. In fact, with all high energy music, take note of your physical reactions. If youre not reacting, its time to upgrade. Focus - The Connecticut Early Music Festival Ensemble - Vivaldi, Flute Concerto in D Focus refers the outline of an instrument within a soundstage. You should be able to pick each instrument apart from the others, and listen to only one at a time. This recording has an extraordinary sense of focus. The flute used in this track is a mid-19th century bonwood, and it envokes a delicate beauty. Each note should sound distinct, and not at all blurred. Each instrument posses this quality. As with video, the sharper the image of each instrument within the sound, the better the focus. Holographic Imaging - Westmister Choir - Britten, Festival Te Deum This recording of a choir is recorded in St. Marys Cathedral.a truly marvelous place, acoustically speaking. Even on two speaker systems the sound should seem very 3 dimensional. There was only one microphone used for this recording, and it was perched atop a microphone boom, 35 feet in the air. The choir was in a high loft, above the pews. This means the mic was positioned in free space, with no reflecting surfaces nearby. You should be able to close your eyes and see the choir before you, and sense a large cathedral, 60 feet wide, 225 feet long, and 90 feet tall. Some systems will even resolve a sense of highth in this recording. The organ should sound very ambient, simply filling the cathedral with sound. That hissing noise you hear is not tape noise.its the sound of the valves from the organ. Transients - Solisti New York - Stravinsky, The Royal March Simply quick dynamic changes in the level of the music. These quick, dynamic shifts in the music generally provides quite a challenge for speakers and amplifiers. This track offers some incredible transients. The speaker drivers mass must therefore be able to start and stop with incredible precision. The grip and speed that the amplifier has over the sound will give a good indication of the quality of your hardware. The drums should sound very tight, which is one of the best tests for speaker and amplifier control. Bass Resonance - Chesky Jazz - Best of Chesky Jazz A solo standup bass in the middle of large studio. The bass is 3 feet from the mic. You should hear a strong transient pluck, followed by the resonance of the body of the instrument. This is a test of accuracy for woofers. Some woofers, when pushed to their limits will make non musical sounds. This Track is a good test of speaker design. Dynamics - Chesky Jazz - Best of Chesky Jazz Loud and soft.need I say more? Careful.this track gets loud. Did you notice the drummer putting both sticks in one hand at the end of the track? As with most new skills, listening takes time to hone and perfect.....practice makes perfect! NOTE: I apologize, but it's darn hard to upload music on a bad 56k line... links to the tracks will be added as they are uploaded. -Z " I hope you enjoyed this, I sure did! Here's the original link, just to give credit where it's due. http://www.fix-it.org/thread418.html -Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Very cool, Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindman Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Excellent post. I plan to purchase the recordings and I'll report my results. Thanks for sharing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 This dude is listening to the wrong things . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Pray tell, please regale us with your version, Mr. Songer, if you're so inclined. I'd be interested in an experts' version of this with more accessible musics (ie stuff I might have in my limited rock/jazz/classical collection) Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I have no problem with the music he is listening to! What I was commenting on is that he says NOTHING about the music and EVERYTHING about the recordings: Pay special attention to the bass. It should sound robust and deep, but also very detailed. You should listen closely for the sound of the fingers on the strings, or the strings occasionally hitting the fretboard. Also listen closely to the shaker. Each shake should sound distinct and different from the one before it. It should also sound like its place back in the soundstage (the area the music sounds like it fills). If they sound too similar, listen a couple more times.if still no dice, the system isnt resolving this fine detail. The string sound should occupy the same acoustic space as the rest of the band. The more you listen to this, the more youll understand what high resolution is all about. I still find myself finding new little pieces of detail each time I listen! or Also listen carefully to the reflection of the sound off of the back wall. The more discrete the sound of that reflection, the more detail the system is capable of. Ask yourself as you listen, how much do I believe that a man is standing between those two speakers? Seems to me this guy cares far more about showing off his fancy hi-fi than he does about really falling into the MUSIC. And that BOTHERS me when he is trying to INSTRUCT all of us about how best to enjoy MUSIC. I think it's crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 ---------------- On 6/16/2005 9:40:57 AM Allan Songer wrote: I have no problem with the music he is listening to! What I was commenting on is that he says NOTHING about the music and EVERYTHING about the recordings: Pay special attention to the bass. It should sound robust and deep, but also very detailed. You should listen closely for the sound of the fingers on the strings, or the strings occasionally hitting the fretboard. Also listen closely to the shaker. Each shake should sound distinct and different from the one before it. It should also sound like its place back in the soundstage (the area the music sounds like it fills). If they sound too similar, listen a couple more times.if still no dice, the system isnt resolving this fine detail. The string sound should occupy the same acoustic space as the rest of the band. The more you listen to this, the more youll understand what high resolution is all about. I still find myself finding new little pieces of detail each time I listen! or Also listen carefully to the reflection of the sound off of the back wall. The more discrete the sound of that reflection, the more detail the system is capable of. Ask yourself as you listen, how much do I believe that a man is standing between those two speakers? Seems to me this guy cares far more about showing off his fancy hi-fi than he does about really falling into the MUSIC. And that BOTHERS me when he is trying to INSTRUCT all of us about how best to enjoy MUSIC. I think it's crap. ---------------- Now, Allan, while I normally agree with you, I'm going to have to part ways with you on this one. You are setting up a false dichotomy: On one side, an audiophile recording played on revealing equipment. On the opposing side, music. But while no amount of electronic gear can overcome bad music, and good music can be enjoyed even on a cheap clock radio, the best situation is one in which an excellent recording of an excellent performance of excellent music is played back on excellent equipment. Rather than working against each other, excellent recordings and excellent music enhance each other. They are not opponents. The author of the article, Zemo, is trying to convey some of the finer points of *sound*. He is not offering a mini course in music appreciation. He should not be criticized for choosing what subject he wants to write about. It is clear that Zemo knows that high quality *sound* and knowing what to listen to will aid in the appreciation and enjoyment of *music*. Witness these three quotes: ***your heightened attention to sound will give you an even greater appreciation for the music.*** ***you should not hear your gear at all, only the music.*** ***If youre not reacting, its time to upgrade.*** It seems obvious that Zemo knows that emotional involvement is the important thing. The electronics should disappear, lest they interfere with the music. His listening tips are meant to enhance pleasure, taking kind of an analytical approach initially, sure, but finally ending with getting deeper into the music, the exact same experience that most of us here want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Allan is right on. Zemo clearly indicates every hallmark of the audiofile type that is actually tone deaf and not musically inclined. The obvious overcompensation for this is the babble about listening for reflected surface sounds, drum stick clicks incidental to the performance, - I was waiting for the part where he indicates how far into the choral music we have to wait to hear the contralto slip out a fart between verses. "Breath" anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy James Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 ---------------- On 6/16/2005 9:40:57 AM Allan Songer wrote: I have no problem with the music he is listening to! What I was commenting on is that he says NOTHING about the music and EVERYTHING about the recordings: Pay special attention to the bass. It should sound robust and deep, but also very detailed. You should listen closely for the sound of the fingers on the strings, or the strings occasionally hitting the fretboard. Also listen closely to the shaker. Each shake should sound distinct and different from the one before it. It should also sound like its place back in the soundstage (the area the music sounds like it fills). If they sound too similar, listen a couple more times.if still no dice, the system isnt resolving this fine detail. The string sound should occupy the same acoustic space as the rest of the band. The more you listen to this, the more youll understand what high resolution is all about. I still find myself finding new little pieces of detail each time I listen! or Also listen carefully to the reflection of the sound off of the back wall. The more discrete the sound of that reflection, the more detail the system is capable of. Ask yourself as you listen, how much do I believe that a man is standing between those two speakers? Seems to me this guy cares far more about showing off his fancy hi-fi than he does about really falling into the MUSIC. And that BOTHERS me when he is trying to INSTRUCT all of us about how best to enjoy MUSIC. I think it's crap. ---------------- A great deal of a performing artist's genius and music's beauty is very subtle. Too many systems and recordings don't convey this, even live venues. Too many people, for whatever the reason don't even know that this subtle, almost sublime beauty and detail even exist, they've been desensitized to the more delicate nuances of music by years of bad recordings and sound. Most people's greastest exposure to reproduced sound is the television and their car radios. I think this writer has done a GOOD thing by giving examples a novice can use to become aquainted with the hidden treasure he may have been missing and some insight on how he may enjoy it. To me, it's the same help as one gets when guided from a boombox or cheap rack system to a decent amp and some Klipsch, at that point anyone here would make that suggestion to a novice, no matter what kind of music he or she listened to. You'd tell them you'll get more out of it. Right? It's not "crap" at all. Folks that have already benefited from and enjoy the rewards of experience shouldn't berate the efforts of those who are trying to help those that have not. You'll lose a lot of your audience if you start out telling them how they should approach their listening by insisting that they adopt your values. To me, that's the beauty of all music, it can be enjoyed by so many on so many levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I think that listening FOR hyper-detail DISTRACTS the listener from understanding the performance. You don't. Such is life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy James Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I also think this guy has given some good practical meaning to a lot of the adjectives that fidelity enthusiasts throw around all the time. How in the heck is a beginner going to know what "air, bloom, liquid and rightness" mean, as well as a hundred other "audiophile" descriptives, without some real world reference and examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I think most would be best served by AVOIDING those terms!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 ---------------- On 6/16/2005 11:44:11 AM Jimmy James wrote: A great deal of a performing artist's genius and music's beauty is very subtle. Too many systems and recordings don't convey this, even live venues. Too many people, for whatever the reason don't even know that this subtle, almost sublime beauty and detail even exist, they've been desensitized to the more delicate nuances of music by years of bad recordings and sound. ---------------- *Very* well put. I don't disagree with Pauln. I think most of us have had experience with audiophiles who are more tech-heads than music-heads. But the point is, without technically sophisticated equipment to play back high quality recordings, the music is going to have to work *against* the equipment. Zemo is giving some tips on checking to see if your equipment is worthy of great music. Thanks, Erukian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy James Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 ---------------- On 6/16/2005 11:54:27 AM Allan Songer wrote: I think that listening FOR hyper-detail DISTRACTS the listener from understanding the performance. You don't. Such is life. ---------------- That's not his goal, except for the purpose of evaluating your present system and what it is capable of offering. People that are already fortunate enough to own high resolution playback don't have to listen for it, it's there, and just adds to the illusion and pleasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy James Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 ---------------- On 6/16/2005 12:03:23 PM Allan Songer wrote: I think most would be best served by AVOIDING those terms!! ---------------- That's what he did, but you call it "crap"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 So those who have lesser equipment shouldn't listen to good music? Gee whiz, I give CDs to folks who have nothing but boom-boxes and car stereos who have been VERY appreciative and who have had whole new musical worlds opened up to them, even when listening through really crummy stereo equipment. Forest/Trees Maybe if this thread didn't start our with the "How to REALLY listen to MUSIC" title we wouldn't be so far apart. If all this guy is trying to do is reccomend discs that show off "high resolution" systems then we really have nothing to discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy James Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 ---------------- On 6/16/2005 12:15:42 PM Allan Songer wrote: So those who have lesser equipment shouldn't listen to good music? Gee whiz, I give CDs to folks who have nothing but boom-boxes and car stereos who have been VERY appreciative and who have had whole new musical worlds opened up to them, even when listening through really crummy stereo equipment. Forest/Trees ---------------- No, not at all. I think it would be safe for me to say that you probably own a more than capable system, yes? Would I be equally safe in saying that if those same folks you gave the CDs to had a chance to hear them on your system they would be very impressed with the improvement in quality, maybe even amazed at the difference, possibly leading them to an upgrade of their own equipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 ---------------- On 6/16/2005 12:15:42 PM Allan Songer wrote: So those who have lesser equipment shouldn't listen to good music? Gee whiz, I give CDs to folks who have nothing but boom-boxes and car stereos who have been VERY appreciative and who have had whole new musical worlds opened up to them, even when listening through really crummy stereo equipment. ---------------- Not at all: "good music can be enjoyed even on a cheap clock radio." It can be enjoyed even more on better equipment. It's painfully simple, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 ABSOLUTELY!!! But I would never sit there and gush on and on about the SIZE of the "soundstage" or say "listen to Percy Heath's fingers on the fret!" BECAUSE IT WOULD BE DISTRACTING THEM FROM THE MUSIC! And that's all I have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 When one is a particularly sophisticated and knowledgeable listener, it can put him at either an advantage or a disadvantage depending on the circumstances. If he hears a symphony with wrong notes played with musicians coming in at the wrong time, he'll like it a lot less than someone who doesn't know what it is supposed to be played like. By the same token, when he hears something exquisitely performed, he'll enjoy it more than an uneducated listener. A similar thing applies to equipment. Ignorance is bliss. If someone just wants to boogie, a boombox will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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