Bret_Salyer Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Well I need an amp for my HT. I just upgraded to the R-7's so I am going to have to go used for now. I have seen some of the HCA-2205A's and Sunfire Cinema's for around $1K-1.2K which is about all I want to spend right now. I will be using my Denon AVR-2802 as a preamp. Can I hope to achieve a good sound with either of these amps and my AVR? Has anyone had any experience with this particular setup? Which amp do you recommend? Thanks in advance for any input. Bret PS.. I don't have any Parasound dealers local. I was also going to demo one of the newer Sunfires at Ultimate but one of the salesmen blew it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I went the Sunfire route and am very happy. Other members have Parasound amps and seem to be very happy. The 5 year warranty on Sunfire amps is transferrable with proof of the purchase date. Out of warranty repairs at Sunfire in Snohomish, WA are for a flat fee of $235 at present. Older Sunfires had a signal to noise ratio of -100 db and produced an extremely faint hiss with your ear to the tweeter. Current production is -115 or -118 db. I have a -118 db model that has zero hiss and more headroom than I will usually use. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret_Salyer Posted June 29, 2005 Author Share Posted June 29, 2005 ---------------- On 6/29/2005 11:00:18 PM MrMcGoo wrote: Older Sunfires had a signal to noise ratio of -100 db and produced an extremely faint hiss with your ear to the tweeter. Current production is -115 or -118 db. I have a -118 db model that has zero hiss and more headroom than I will usually use. Bill ---------------- I did not know that Bill. I also just saw an Aragon 2005 for $1250 that I can throw into the mix. I understand this is just opinion and they may all sound different to my ears, but atleast two of the three units are discontinued models (I believe) so thats all I am looking for are experiences and opinions. Bret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Bret, An Aragon 2005 for $1250 is a good price. The 2005 has about the same power supply as the 2007 as near as I can tell. Later you could add an 8008 for an excellent 7 channel setup with very good power. The downside to the Aragon 2005 and 2007 is that they only make rated power on three channels simulataneously. On the 2005 that is not as serious as on the 2007. An 8008 on the mains and a 2005 on the center and surrounds would have plenty of headroom IMO. Used 8008s come up on AudiogoN from time to time. Build quality looks good to me. The 8008 has dual power supplies. Amp life on non-commercial amps is a function of cooling and TLC. The Aragon designs look like they dissipate heat effectively. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I'll put my vote in for the Parasound 2205. I have one and it has plenty of power and runs nice and cool and dead quiet. My B&K Ref30 runs hotter than the Parasound. I believe it also has a 10 year transferrable warranty to boot. You should be able to get one for under a grand during the summer months on e-bay. Prices will climb comes fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret_Salyer Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 Well I went ahead and bought a used Parasound 2205A. I went against my instincts to buying the Sunfire (high power/low heat), Mr. Mcgoo's recommendation, and my old friend Mike who I remember always used to rave about the Carver TFM-45's back in the 90's - "That's what I'm gonna get!" At first I was delighted then a little mixed emotions. I am putting the amp to the test. I can't believe the sound, you guys were right, the power really wakes up the R-7's. Night and Day from my 90 WPC Denon AVR-2802. My only concerns: A) the high temp. light came on for awhile (it didn't shut down), but I have to admit I was really testing it out with scenes from Master and Commander, U-571, and some Alice in Chains "Jar of Flies" which I dig for the acoustic guitar, but it really puts out the bass too. I went through these over and over setting up my system. and ( There is a slight hum from the amp itself, but it is only audible if "muted". I love the sound though. Really solid! And all at a flat response using my Denon AVR-2802 as a preamp. Basically I just wanted to rave about that, especially the punchy bass that the RF-7's are capable of, the crystal clear highs, and all with my modest setup. Later on until now it feels much warmer to the touch than earlier in the day, but haven't seen the high temp. light again. (Also, the amp has plenty of ventilation). I am going to continue to test this amp and I hope it works out and I don't have any problems. I appreciate all the input and I'll try to wipe this grin off my face. It sounds so good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicu Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 6/30/2005 10:25:54 AM Flason wrote: I'll put my vote in for the Parasound 2205. I have one and it has plenty of power and runs nice and cool and dead quiet. My B&K Ref30 runs hotter than the Parasound. I believe it also has a 10 year transferrable warranty to boot. You should be able to get one for under a grand during the summer months on e-bay. Prices will climb comes fall. ---------------- The Parasound warranty is not transferrable. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret_Salyer Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 2:31:30 AM Nicu wrote: The Parasound warranty is not transferrable. N ---------------- According to the manual its only a 2 year warranty anyway. This model amp is 6-7 years old. I am happy with the power and the sound though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Congrats on the amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret_Salyer Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 6:12:47 AM BobbyT wrote: Congrats on the amp ---------------- Thank you. I wanted to add that after further listening, the hum I referred to is not only coming from the amp, but also the speakers. I have done some online searching but I don't have the answer yet. No matter which source is selected when I raise the volume from --- to -70 there is a slight hum. The hum does not get louder as I raise the volume (of course there is a hiss that gets louder with you ear at the speaker, but the original hum seems to be about the same), but (the hum) is audible from the seated position (about 10 feet) during soft passages. I have already disconnected the Dish Sat feed and also my subwoofer to check for ground loops but the hum is still there. The hum is only audible through the RF-7 mains. I have heard noise that was pretty severe in a couple car audio systems and this is nothing like that. This is very slight, but it is audible during soft passages and I would like to eliminate it if possible. Do you think that this is a ground loop or just the noise floor which is now audible since adding the amp? Or something else? I realize my equipment is not all med/high end and I am using very sensitive speakers, but it was not audible before adding the amp. Also, there is a slight hum from the amp chassis itself. All this is not really audible over my A/C when its on, but I do have a return air in my living room with the A/C just on the other side of the wall (kinda noisy). Long winded, but I thought I would be as descriptive as possible. I wanted your opinions before I started chasing my tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Bret, Try turning the Denon off. If the hum stops, the Denon may have a noise floor that is too high. Mid-fi receivers usually produce some noise, particularly during digtal processing for 5.1 sources. If the Parasound has a three prong plug, try a cheater plug, i.e., lift the ground. This is not recommended as a permanent solution, but it will confirm or rule out a gound loop with the amp very quickly. Cheater plugs cost less than a buck at the hardware store. There are lots of folks that do not own RF-7s that will tell you you do not need 200 watts. Even some of the tube types do not understand the need for 200 solid state watts on the 7s. If you have a good sub, try running the RF-7s as "small" with a crossover at 60 or 80 Hz. The Parasound may run cooler. Bass may also be better. I run my RF-7s as small with a crossover of 50 Hz. I let my sub handle the lower bass. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret_Salyer Posted July 11, 2005 Author Share Posted July 11, 2005 ---------------- On 7/11/2005 1:30:11 AM MrMcGoo wrote: Bret, Try turning the Denon off. If the hum stops, the Denon may have a noise floor that is too high. Mid-fi receivers usually produce some noise, particularly during digtal processing for 5.1 sources. If the Parasound has a three prong plug, try a cheater plug, i.e., lift the ground. This is not recommended as a permanent solution, but it will confirm or rule out a gound loop with the amp very quickly. Cheater plugs cost less than a buck at the hardware store. There are lots of folks that do not own RF-7s that will tell you you do not need 200 watts. Even some of the tube types do not understand the need for 200 solid state watts on the 7s. If you have a good sub, try running the RF-7s as "small" with a crossover at 60 or 80 Hz. The Parasound may run cooler. Bass may also be better. I run my RF-7s as small with a crossover of 50 Hz. I let my sub handle the lower bass. Bill ---------------- Unfortunately the Denon's low crossover is 80 hz and that is not low enough to run the RF-7's on small. The reproduction of the material in this range is much better handled by the RF-7's in my opinion. I run all the others on small though. The Parasound amps is quite warm in "standby" without running any material, in an open cabinet. (One of the reasons I was thinking of going Sunfire) I will definitely try the above suggestions for noise tomorrow. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Bret, When a speakers is set as small, it still gets a signal below the crossover point. The slope of the crossover is usually 24 decibels per octave. Hence at 40 Hz, the small speakers would get a signal reduced by 24 decibels. Your RSW-15 can play up to 80 Hz with no trouble. The only down side is that some folks can localize bass at 80 Hz. For me the bass is not localized from 60 Hz downward. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret_Salyer Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 ---------------- On 7/11/2005 1:30:11 AM MrMcGoo wrote: Bret, Try turning the Denon off. If the hum stops, the Denon may have a noise floor that is too high. Mid-fi receivers usually produce some noise, particularly during digtal processing for 5.1 sources. If the Parasound has a three prong plug, try a cheater plug, i.e., lift the ground. This is not recommended as a permanent solution, but it will confirm or rule out a gound loop with the amp very quickly. Cheater plugs cost less than a buck at the hardware store. ---------------- I turned off the Denon and there was still a hum. Then I used a cheater plug on the amp with the Denon on and the hum is gone. So I guess there is a ground loop. Next step I unplugged my satellite feed coming into the house and the hum is still there. I checked the wall outlet with a circuit tester and its wired properly. I also disconnected my subwoofer since it is on a separate outlet and the hum was still there. My other components are DVD player, VCR, TV, playstation. Could the ground loop be attributed to one of these? If so, what would be the fix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Bret, Ground loops happen due to a small (or large) currents that flow via the ground connection. There are many possible causes. It looks like you have eliminated many of the usual suspects. Is more than one branch circuit involved? The grounding of your main electrical panel may be involved. The rest of the wiring may be fine, but a small problem with the grounding of the panel can cause the problem. There are certain ways the the ground is supposed to be hooked up. It may be a good idea to have a qualified electrcian look at the ground on your panel etc. Bill PS: Does the Parasound have a ground lift switch? The manual may have suggestions. Try disconnecting the components one at time till they are all disconnected. You should be able to identify the problem combination. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Bret, does your Parasound amp have balanced inputs? If it does try some unbalanced to balanced interconnects. I had a hum problem with my McCormack preamp and my B&K 200.5. As a matter of fact I had the same problem with some NAD seperates and returned them because I had tried everything and finally blamed the NAD stuff. Then I got the McCormack and B&K and had the same problem. Another member suggested the RCA to XLR interconnects and they worked like magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 SteelerFan's suggestion may work, so it is worth a try. Guitar Centers sell the RCA to XLR cables for reasonable prices. Any pro audio store should have the cables for a reasonable price, so go for it. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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