vanderrg Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I have been keeping my eye out for a 2-channel amp to use to power my RF-7's instead of using my Denon 3805 to hopefully increase the bass response I get from the RF-7's. I've become convinced by several of the senior posters on the forum here that the answer is a separate amp capable of driving low-impedances. I have an opportunity to purchase a Sunfire Symphonic Reference 250-watt x2 amp used for $600. It is about a year old and the manual (available online) states: "Ideally the total average impedance should be no less than 2 ohms per channel". I take it that this means that it will be fine with impedance drops to 2.8 which is the lowest I've heard reported for the RF-7's, correct? The bottom line is: do you think this is a good amp that will "wake up" the Rf-7's and also do you think $600 is a good deal for the amp (it is 1 year old)? For some reason I can't find any opinions or reviews of it on the internet.. Thanks in advance- Bob V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I am sorry that I cannot comment on that particular amp. But I have used Carver/Sunfire separates for years and could not be happier. The build quality is top notch and I have yet to hear better sounding solid state gear (IMHO). It is probably out there, I have just not run across it. Bob Carver is said to have a soft spot in his heart for tubes and strives to make his SS gear have a warmer tube sound. Good luck, report back and let us know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Yes, Carver is a prolific designer, but a crappy business man. Unfortunately, the qualified business men who COULD keep him in business can't seem work with him. So his self-managed companies continually go into the dumper. Sunfire is unfortunately just another in a long line starting with Phase Linear. The Sunfire is a good SS amp, it will work nicely. Originally about $2500 new, so $600 is a good buy. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Current Sunfire production is 300 wpc or 600 wpc in the stereo amps. If this amp is 250 watts, I would look into its background to determine what is going on. It may be owner error on the wattage. I own a 5 channel and a 2 channel Sunfire amp. Any Sunfire will have the current to drive RF-7s. I am very pleased with the sound quality. The 2 channel Sunfire amps run stone cold without much ventilation and no heat sinks. Most of the electricity goes to power the speakers and not to bias the amp. A price of $600 may be too good to be true IMO. I would be careful on general principle for this type of transaction. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderrg Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 MrMcgoo: Your opinion counts a lot...I've relied on many posts of yours in my blitzkrieg education here on these Klipsch boards. Therefore your concern raises a red flag for me...if you haven't heard of this amp then I wonder what's going on. You correctly stated that currently sunfire doesn't make a 250x2, but see below...apparently they used to: Here are the specs from the sunfire website (from the section of products they no longer manufacture): Symphonic Reference Power Amplifier 250 watts rms continuous per channel, all channels driven into eight ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 0.5% T.H.D. 500 watts rms per channel into four ohms Intrinsic frequency response of one Hz to 80kHz Signal present auto-on switch senses input signal on any channel and automatically powers up 12VDC trigger input with 1/8" mini jacks as well as plug-in screw-terminal strip Balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA inputs High-quality five-way binding posts Gorgeous monolithic milled aluminum styling and finish with long grain Dimensions: 17" wide, 5.75" high (with feet), 16.5" deep Five-year parts and labor warranty Available individually or at a special reduced price when purchased with a Symphonic Reference Preamplifier Here is a url to the user's manual: http://www.sunfire.com/pdf/Symphonic%20Amp%20Owners%20Manual.pdf Part of my concern when looking into this is that I can't find much info about this particular sunfire amp anywhere...The owner says he bought it about a year ago...if that's true then it can't be THAT old... Let me know what you think... BV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Bob, It may be a Series I purchased used, which would make it over 5 years old. Or, it could have been purchased as "B" stock factory refurbished. The seller should make clear what is going on. If it were to need service, there is a flat fee of $235. I will look at the manual on line. Bill PS: It is 250 wpc Sunfire and appears to be a Series I made from 2000 to 2002. The good thing is that it is 17 inches wide instead of 19. It lacks current outputs and all metal binding posts. Later models had both current outputs and voltage outputs. The current side is for the treble and the voltage side is for bass. This is mostly a gimmick that later models had to sound more like tubes. Your RF-7s will love the amp. There is plenty of power and current. It has a S/N ratio of -115 db if it is a later model (Rev. A of the manual.) If your receiver is quiet, the amp will not add any additional hiss that is audible. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderrg Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Well, he definitely purchased it B-stock from the manufacturer...he said that in the description and I should have included that fact above. I noticed the owners manual is copyright 2002 (per the .pdf of the manual that can be viewed online...apparently you saw that also). Should that be a drawback? I would have imagined that these amps should last a very long time, no? Does the B-stock and age info make $600 sound more reasonable for a used unit? He guarantees it to work as new. I did notice that on the sunfire website the following terminology is used to describe this model (the amp/pre-amp "stack" being referred to below is because they made a matching pre-amp and marketed them either separate or together): "Bob Carver has created an awesome audiophile stereo preamp/amp stack at a breakthrough price." So maybe this was a lower-priced, perhaps stripped down model that sunfire used to make? Is that what you mean by series I? I wish I could find an MSRP somewhere but I can't do so...I'm hoping that the company has a good enough rep that they wouldn't make any junk...even their lower-priced line. But again if you, being a sunfire enthusiast and owner of two of their amps, have never heard of this model it bugs me... either way- your last sentence is very confidence-inspiring. I'm taking the plunge and I'll tell you how it goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 B stock is factory referbed or surplus inventory. It should work as new. The price is reasonable as long as you get the original bill of sale so that you could use the warranty if needed. Amp lives are variable, but well built amps can last 20 years or more. The capacitors seem to be the weakest link, but can usually be replaced with little difficulty. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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