vanderrg

You think it would be better to just plug it into the wall? What about surge protection and the like?

Interesting- that guy had the exact same prob as me- at least it helps to make me think that the prob isn't necessarily with my av equipment. Thanks very much for the link- BV

I had a Belkin PureAv PF30 for about 3 years. About 2 weeks ago the unit stopped providing power through the switched outlets on the back (the unit has several outlets that are switched and several that are continuously on). I tried hitting the breaker switch on the back to reset but this did nothing. The equipment all worked fine when I plugged it into live outlets. I figured I may have had a lightning strike or something and that the Belkin may have absorbed it, committing suicide in order to protect my equipment. So I ordered a new Belkin PF30 identical to the other one and everything was great for about 1 week. But then the exact same thing happened with this new unit. To me this is just too weird I don't even think we've had any rain or storms since I got the new one. What could be doing this? Has my a/v equipment suddenly gone faulty in some bizarre way where it still works perfectly when plugged directly into the wall but just destroys power conditioners?!?!? (Denon 3805 receiver, Sunfire 2-channel amp, SVS subwoofer). It's just too much of a coincidence that this happened twice right in a row...anyone have any ideas of what could cause this? I hesitate to buy another power conditioner since I just wasted $100 on the one I just bought...but I don't really want to just leave everything plugged directly into wall outlets either.

I can't speak either way about the HSU but they have a great reputation... I do have the SVS 20-39 PC Plus, mated with the RF-7 system. My room is pretty big (19 x 28 x 8) and the SVS folks recommended this sub when I gave them these specs. The sub is more than needed to shake the room and strike fear into its inhabitants. It is beyond my expectations and sounds very clean to me. The HSU may sound just as good, but I can vouch for the SVS. Also- when I first got my SVS it arrived broken (no visible shipping damage or external damage to the sub...it just didn't work). I called the company and they immediately shipped another one to me without even waiting for me to return the first one. They didn't give me any hassle or make me jump through any hoops at all. So I guess on the one hand it's a negative for SVS that the sub arrived nonfunctioning...but the way they handled it was amazing. I had heard how great their customer service was and they delivered.

I have the PF30 and I'm plenty happy with it...the funny thing is when I was investigating this I found it very tough to separate fact from anecdote, gut-feeling and brand loyalty. After doing about as much poking around on the net as I feel like doing I'm not one who believes that expensive power conditioners make an audible difference in the vast majority of situations (no offense to those who differ...I'm sure there are some instances that could be cited where power supplies in homes are such that a power conditioner could genuinely help with sound quality). I just wanted good surge protection and something that would keep my amp from popping when I turned everything on (like you were concerned with). Anyway I figured Belkin had a good rep and saw this unit and was pleased with its price and appearance. It was as simple as that. No my equipment didn't sound any better when I plugged everything into it but I wasn't expecting it to. The only way I'll ever feel negatively about the product is if it fails to protect something from a power surge. Until that happens I have no objective reason to conclude that it is inferior to other similarly-rated surge protector units. By the way...one thing Belkin advertises is that one of the PF30 outlets is a "HiCurrent Outlet for high-power amplifiers"...does anyone know what that means? How is it different from the other outlets? Is that just marketing? I have my amp plugged into it but I'm not sure what the deal is with that...the manual was not helpful there.

...oh yeah I almost forgot--- it turned out great! Congrats man!!! I don't see enough Klipsch in that magazine!!! BV

I had just gotten my issue in the mail and I was telling my wife that I like to check out the a/v interiors section where they showcase people's DIY home theaters. She suggested that I send in pictures of ours but I opened the magazine to show here that the kinds of theaters they showcased were quite a bit more refined and professional-looking than ours. Anyway as soon as I opened the magazine I recognized the theater from visiting his website a long time ago and got completely sidetracked. I'm surprised how much I remembered as I told my wife all about it. Of course I checked the article to make sure of two things: 1) that Klipsch speakers were prominently on display in the photos (they are) 2) that he had mentioned the forums here (he did!)

Thanks everyone. The only prob with floorstanding or bookshelf speakers on stands a few feet back is that about 8 feet behind the seating is a pool table. If I put speakers where they would need to be on the floor then they would intrude into the area around the table needed to play. That would probably be the best sounding solution but I think it would cramp the table too much. The suggestion of hanging some more RS-7's or some direct-radiating bookshelves from the ceiling and angling them downward intrigues me. Previously I had thought that ceiling speakers would be the only nice-looking possibility. And while the opinions on the 5800c speakers on this thread have bolstered my confidence that the right ceiling speakers wouldn't let me down, I think it may be even look cooler to have the rears hanging down from the ceiling...or it may look sort of forced. It's hard for me to visualize. The diverging opinion as to the improvement in sound going to 7.1 has lead me to do some work and just experiment. I have some B-2 bookshelves that I'm not using and I think I'll set them up behind the listening area just to get a feel for how active I can expect the rears to be...

I currently have a 5.1 setup (RF-7 series) and have held off attempting to go 7.1 because I have no rear wall behind my seating (well...there's a wall there but it's 15 feet away). So I would have to have in-ceiling rears and have been concerned that in-ceiling speakers wouldn't be able to keep up with the rest of my system and would create a performance bottleneck of sorts (i.e. I don't want to have to worry about blowing them when cranking things up). Anyway for those who have had both kinds of setups how much do those rear speakers add to the moviewatching experience? Do enough movies take advantage of them to where you are aware of sounds behind you? Also my surround speakers are RS-7's so they are not direct radiating speakers ...since they don't produce sound localized to my right and left anyway would I get less of an additional sense of directional sound by adding the rears? In other words if my current surrounds are creating "ambient" sound that fills the room in a non-directional way, then how much sense would it make to add more speakers to the rear? Any opinions are appreciated- BV

I have a similar setup- it's a 17 x 40 room with 12-foot ceilings and hardwood floors. I'm using a Denon 885 (rated at 90wpc so less than yours) and a 5.1 system involving B-3's, C-3, and a sub-12. I have to admit that I also thought it would be louder than it is, but the room is big and I'm using bookshelves instead of F-3's. Anyway if I want to have really big, loud sound I have noticed that I do have to have the volume close to reference (anywhere from -5 to 0). Normal listening levels probably -10 to -15 and you can still carry on a conversation if you raise your voice a little. I would have thought that given the sensitivity of the speakers and my previous experience with Denon that I would not be able to take the receiver to reference volume without having the sound be uncomfortably loud and painful, and was surprised that this was not the case, but fortuantely it is just barely loud enough to satisfy me and it sounds great. It does sound like something weird is happening that the protection circuit keeps cutting off and I have nothing to add to that part of the issue. Just throwing in my 0.02 about expected volume levels for the system...

You may want to check out gothifi.com as well...I ordered their "wellington" line which it turns out is made by Berkline. You can pick out whatever config you want. I got 5 seats in microfibre and it was right at 2500 including shipping. They are very comfortable.

I'm in the market for HT seating and this place seems to have good prices... http://www.gothifi.com/hifishowroom/cinema/wellington.htm Several months ago I asked them for a quote of these seats in microfiber and they said $450 per chair plus $450 total shipping if I bought 4 or 5 seats. That means I could get 5 seats (of my choice- these are modular and you can do whatever config you want) for around $2500, just over $600 per seat. Granted the Costco deal is $600 per seat also but I'd have to pay tax and would have to carry it home myself. Plus it's only available in black, is limited to the advertised 3-seat-only config, and I'd rather have microfiber than leather. Has anyone ever dealt with gothifi.com to know whether this is good furniture or not? BV

I just bought a Sub-12 yesterday (got one of those 10% off coupons in the mail and that made it about the same price as the entry-model SVS). If you work as BB no doubt you've listened to it plenty. I have a reference setup for HT and a synergy setup (complete as of yesterday) for the family room. The sub in my reference setup is an SVS 20-39 PC+ and I love it, so I was torn between buying a Klipsch sub-12 and buying a smaller SVS box for the synergy setup. I did a lot of reading on the internet and these boards before buying and there seems to be some consensus that a few subs in the $400-500 range are really good bargains and compete performance-wise with many (most?) subs in the $600-$800 range. Among these are the Sub-12, the entry-level SVS box sub, and the Outlaw LFM-1. I never found anyone who said anything bad about any of those three. I had been a little wary of buying the Klipsch because I had heard that the older synergy subs left something to be desired, but time and again I read people's opinions of the Sub-12 that it blew those older synergy subs out of the water and I became convinced. At any rate I think I would have been happy with any of them, and certainly loved cranking up the Sub-12 today with the Incredibles DVD. It was REALLY nice. If you're worried that the synergy sub may not match well with your reference stuff, I was interested to see that in the sub-12 documentation it says something to the effect that it should blend well with all Klipsch speakers. I wondered how they could really say that, but at any rate it sounds really good with my synergy stuff (C-3 and B-2's).

Yeah- I couldn't even view the thread for a long time yesterday- thanks for the additional sources- I'll check them out- BV

Fantastic! Thanks very much- BV

I'm having a home built and the bonus room will be used for home theater...a friend of mine is going to be building cabinets to frame the screen and house the speakers. We'd like to have the speakers sitting in the cabinet with their native grills off but have larger, removeable grills designed to fit the front of the cabinets. Anyway we'd like these grills to be removeable using the regular rubber dowel inserts like the native speaker grills have, but I can't find ANYWHERE that sells those. I wonder if anyone out there knows where we can get them... I'll try to insert a PDF here of the cabinet design so you can see what I'm talking about... Thanks in advance- <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Ask me later on today! I'm in your boat and after some good input from the folks here I went ahead and purchased a (used) sunfire symphonic reference 250x2 amp...and it is supposed to be delivered today (if UPS tracking is accurate)...I've been using my Denon 3805 so I should be able to tell later on today if it sounds a lot better...I'm hoping to have a significantly warmer sound after hooking up the high current amp...

Well, he definitely purchased it B-stock from the manufacturer...he said that in the description and I should have included that fact above. I noticed the owners manual is copyright 2002 (per the .pdf of the manual that can be viewed online...apparently you saw that also). Should that be a drawback? I would have imagined that these amps should last a very long time, no? Does the B-stock and age info make $600 sound more reasonable for a used unit? He guarantees it to work as new. I did notice that on the sunfire website the following terminology is used to describe this model (the amp/pre-amp "stack" being referred to below is because they made a matching pre-amp and marketed them either separate or together): "Bob Carver has created an awesome audiophile stereo preamp/amp stack at a breakthrough price." So maybe this was a lower-priced, perhaps stripped down model that sunfire used to make? Is that what you mean by series I? I wish I could find an MSRP somewhere but I can't do so...I'm hoping that the company has a good enough rep that they wouldn't make any junk...even their lower-priced line. But again if you, being a sunfire enthusiast and owner of two of their amps, have never heard of this model it bugs me... either way- your last sentence is very confidence-inspiring. I'm taking the plunge and I'll tell you how it goes!

MrMcgoo: Your opinion counts a lot...I've relied on many posts of yours in my blitzkrieg education here on these Klipsch boards. Therefore your concern raises a red flag for me...if you haven't heard of this amp then I wonder what's going on. You correctly stated that currently sunfire doesn't make a 250x2, but see below...apparently they used to: Here are the specs from the sunfire website (from the section of products they no longer manufacture): Symphonic Reference Power Amplifier 250 watts rms continuous per channel, all channels driven into eight ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 0.5% T.H.D. 500 watts rms per channel into four ohms Intrinsic frequency response of one Hz to 80kHz Signal present auto-on switch senses input signal on any channel and automatically powers up 12VDC trigger input with 1/8" mini jacks as well as plug-in screw-terminal strip Balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA inputs High-quality five-way binding posts Gorgeous monolithic milled aluminum styling and finish with long grain Dimensions: 17" wide, 5.75" high (with feet), 16.5" deep Five-year parts and labor warranty Available individually or at a special reduced price when purchased with a Symphonic Reference Preamplifier Here is a url to the user's manual: http://www.sunfire.com/pdf/Symphonic%20Amp%20Owners%20Manual.pdf Part of my concern when looking into this is that I can't find much info about this particular sunfire amp anywhere...The owner says he bought it about a year ago...if that's true then it can't be THAT old... Let me know what you think... BV

I have been keeping my eye out for a 2-channel amp to use to power my RF-7's instead of using my Denon 3805 to hopefully increase the bass response I get from the RF-7's. I've become convinced by several of the senior posters on the forum here that the answer is a separate amp capable of driving low-impedances. I have an opportunity to purchase a Sunfire Symphonic Reference 250-watt x2 amp used for $600. It is about a year old and the manual (available online) states: "Ideally the total average impedance should be no less than 2 ohms per channel". I take it that this means that it will be fine with impedance drops to 2.8 which is the lowest I've heard reported for the RF-7's, correct? The bottom line is: do you think this is a good amp that will "wake up" the Rf-7's and also do you think $600 is a good deal for the amp (it is 1 year old)? For some reason I can't find any opinions or reviews of it on the internet.. Thanks in advance- Bob V.

Mostly classic rock with some 80's also (is Def Leppard clascic rock yet?!?!?) Lots of Rush, Van Halen, that sort of stuff. I also like some of the new bands those kids are listening to these days, like Evanescence, Bowling for Soup, etc. Basically hard rock...

That's interesting...they are about 10 inches from the wall...how far out is optimal? Could this be a signficiant contributor?

When you listen to 2-channel CD music (i.e. no LFE channel...so basically your sub is silent if the RF-7's are set to large), do you find that the RF-7's put out nice deep bass without adjustment? To answer your question I have the sub's crossover disabled and just use the Denon's crossover setting.

I've turned off the sub and set them to large... I would have expected much more bass than I got, and that is largely the impetus for starting the thread. I know the speakers work because if I put in a movie with tons of bass (i.e. The Incredibles) and crank it up (while disabling the sub so as to send the LFE to the mains) the speakers prove they can make nice rumbly low bass. But it's NOTHING like when I set the speakers to small and turn the sub back on. When I listen to music CDs the effect is even more pronounced..While set to large, zero of my CDs play with the kind of nice deep bass that I know those speakers are capable of. My room is carpeted and curtained. I struggle with the "large vs small" issue and have read lots of discussions about it here on the forum. So far I've left them on "small" for 2 reasons: 1. I've read many assurances here that even if the RF-7's are only playing down to 80hz they are still making lots of high-bass and you aren't "wasting" them- in fact several posters here have said that the speaker should sound better if anything since it isn't having to reproduce all of the lowest bass. For movies, there is also the matter of the main channels in a DD mix carrying info down below the RF-7's ability to reproduce...with mains set to large I would miss that sound entirely (not sure that I would miss it...but knowing that I wouldn't be getting it would bother me). 2. For the moment at least, there is no comparison in sound enjoyment between "large" and "small", particularly when listening to music. Large= not very much bass, small= as much bass as I tell the sub to put out!

Okay- I probably won't try it then. Looks like at some point it will have to be separates for me. It's funny- if I had known that I had to buy a $1000+ separate amp to hear great bass from these RF-7's, I probably would have just bought RF-5's or 35's instead...since they don't suffer from the dreaded impedance drop so much I probably would be hearing good bass right now with my Denon, correct? Also MrMcGoo- does the fact that I'm using a separate sub impact your advice at all? Will I still get noticeable improvement if I step up to a separate amp even though I've got the SVS doing the low bass?