How to place RF-7's in bay corners?

[Heideana]

I've been playing with the placement of my RF-7's in the front parlor of a victorian "Eastlake" home for a few months and I'm still not sure about how best to angle them in the front slanted-angle/bay window corners for best image and bass response. I've got them projecting through the sliding door opening into the second parlor and listening to them from a desk in the middle that doorway for both music and Pro Tools monitoring. Does anyone have any information or thoughts about placing speakers in corners with slanted backs, especially ones with windows in them?

Thanks in advance...Hopkins

[crazytubepower]

wow, using klipsch as monitors, thats wierd. They are too colored to mix with. But to each his own

[DrWho]

any pictures or diagrams you could draw up?

I share the same sentiment that the RF-7's probably aren't the best choice for monitoring either, but to each his own.

[Heideana]

Here's a quick and dirty diagram of my room. The x's are where I've got my RF-7's. I forgot to note in the diagram that the ceilings are 10 ft. tall.

I didn't realize using RF's as monitors was that odd. Their what I've got in my music room for for listening to things where I'm learning Pro Tools. I plugged my Digi 002 into a spare input on my audio amp they seem to reproduce any of my bass or guitar doodlings pretty accurately. Drum tracks feel pretty much like there's a real drum in the room. Is the problem because their frequency is not flat enough?

Eastlake.pdf

[DrWho]

You'll want to position them so that you have a 60 degree angle between the mains (with you as the focal point). Then point the tweeters right at your head. Adjustments for the bass response would then be made by sliding the speaker foward and backward along that line of projection. Let me know if this makes sense, I can draw up a pic real quick if you want.

The reason the RF-7's aren't good monitors is exactly the reason you just posted: "Drum tracks feel pretty much like there's a real drum in the room." The RF-7's are what I would call a concieling speaker and were built to make music sound pleasing. (who would want a speaker that makes the music sound like crap when they're trying to enjoy it?)

In "the studio" there is a very different kind of listening that goes on which involves trying to hear the flaws that way you can fix them (typically it's best to try and fix them by physical means; like moving a mic instead of using EQ).

Another thing to consider is how well do your mixes translate to other systems? Does the tonality of the music sound just as balanced in your car and on your friend's sound system? About 90% of the time I spend producing music is spent making sure the mix translates to other sound systems (been doing it for 13 years now)...this becomes infinetly easier when you have a playback system that is as neutral as possible (which I can guarantee the RF-7's are not). I would bet your mixes sound very laid back in the car or on any other system not using horns for the mids/highs. There are times when I have to force myself to let it sound bad in the studio because I know that when I take it to other systems that it will sound better there than if I had tried to make it sound good in the studio. I think the hardest thing to get right is the bass response.

By no means would I consider the RF-7 the worst choice possible for a studio monitor setup, but it will require you to become very familiar with the flaws in the RF-7 and then will take you even longer to get an idea of how things translate to the rest of the world. Also keep in mind that the RF-7 doesn't have a very flat frequency response (which isn't a huge issue when trying to enjoy music, but really hurts you in the studio). I can't imagine the polar response would be all to great either considering the dual woofer setup (aka, small changes in the movement of your head are going to result in drastic changes in the balance of the sound).

Btw, how picky are you going to be about the sound in this studio? I can think of a few applications where the RF-7 wouldn't be as awful as I'm making it out to be

[Heideana]

Dr. Who, do you mean 60 degree angle once the speakers are centered in the corners and maybe 2 feet out from the walls as I slide forward/backwards to get rid of any boominess?

Thanks for explaining what's odd about using RF's for monitors. It sounds like you've got to take the mix out to the car stereo for a final check if I'm following your analogy? I'm pretty much a novice and not picky yet. Truth be known I'm pretty happy to use Pro Tools as a tool to work on my guitar playing

[Marvel]

People got used to mixing on NS-10s too. Or Altecs with no high end (made the mixes sizzle on a good system).

Make CDs of your mixes and try them on MANY different systems. Friend's systems are great for this, as different folks all have different sounding systems.

A friend of mine has a Digi02. I personally hate it, as IT has to be plugged in to do anything with it. The Digi Design way I suppose.

You can still make great music on it. Just learn how it works.

Bruce

[DrWho]

60 degrees as in the total angle between the speakers, here's a crappy diagram:

\./

you are the dot and the lines are the angles of site to the speakers. The angle between the two lines should be 60 degrees (or if you want to think about it another way, each speaker is 30 degrees away from the center line: \!/ )

But yes, you are on the right track when listening in the car. I would also encourage you to listen on crappy computer speakers, perhaps on a boombox stereo, and maybe even other higher quality systems that your friends might have. Once you start getting into translating your mix, you'll be very suprised at all the new flaws you hear on different speakers (or when the mix is close to completion, you'll start to not notice flaws aren't there that you will hear on your main monitoring system). It's also important to listen on headphones too as they soundstage on headphones is extremely different from a typical 2-channel setup...unless you're purposely trying to be artistic with akward panning, you'll want to make sure for the most part that everything sounds balanced on headphones (The sony MDR's would be a great place to start for a do it all headphone).

[Marvel]

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On 8/8/2005 10:27:52 AM DrWho wrote:

60 degrees as in the total angle between the speakers, here's a crappy diagram:

./

you are the dot and the lines are the angles of site to the speakers. The angle between the two lines should be 60 degrees (or if you want to think about it another way, each speaker is 30 degrees away from the center line: !/ )

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It makes a simple equalateral triangle. All three sides are the same length. Some will mix with the speakers a little closer together, but the 60 degree idea works about the best. Any further apart and even the slightest phase issues on a given track will make it hard to position tracks left to right accurately. But then those would need to get fixed anyway, right?

Bruce

[Heideana]

Thanks all! I'm working on getting the 60 degree equalaterial triangle going.

I take it that the RF-7's don't need to be placed in corners so I don't need to worry about how far away they need to be from my slanted corners? I thought I read a few times on the forum that they work best when placed in corners?