H. C. Spilk Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Hello all. I bought my horns and a MAC 4100 in 1980. It still sounds great, but, what is the current "best of best" receiver on the market? I'm looking for a 100 watt a channel to match what I have used to date. The Mac Intosh still works great, but I want to upgrade as I move the speakers into another room. Thanks for any feedback from this group. HCS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 The bad news--or the good news--depending on your point of view, is that you already own it. "Receivers" are not high-end, and haven't been for years. Receivers are now marketed for mid-to-low fi. They are now low budget, bells 'n' whistles OR Chinese minimum-content/maximum profit garbage. Inflated ratings and anemic power supplies rule that market now. Are we talking stereo or multi-channel (home theater)? If stereo, and you want it simple, I suggest a used Aragon DIA 100, or DIA 150. It's an integrated amp --no tuner. Look for 'em in eBay or Audiogon. Most anything now is built in China, including once-respected names like Harman-Kardon. J-U-N-K. I strongly suggest seperate pre- and power amp(s) If there really is a "high end" receiver still made--and I doubt it, but what do I know--I'd also like to hear about it. Anyone else with ideas??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Here's an idea: check out Pioneer Elite, Denon, Sony ES, Yamaha, Integra, Rotel, and Harmon Kardon. They all make receivers that are in every way, "high-end," with a price-tag to match. The new Denon 5805, for example, has anything but an "anemic" power-supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Receivers usually have amp sections that are challenged by speakers that are less than an 8 ohm load. Receivers ten to be feature rich, but only the top end receivers have processord that can compete with separate processors. Top receivers are made by Denon, Pioneer Elite, B&K, McIntosh and Sunfire IMO. Each one has advantages and disadvantages. Denon and Pioneer both make mid-fi receiver as well; only their flagships are high end IMO. When you get to flagship receivers, it is worthwhile to consider going with separates. Analysis should be based on qualty and features as ther are always trade-offs. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Chip-amps mean all bets are off. I've heard guys getting incredible sound driving high quality horns with 200-300 dollar JVC and Panasonic chip-amp receivers. Conventional notions and marketing terms like "high end" and "mid-fi" are obsolete. Get with it or get left behind. Feel exclusive or get good sound, your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Man, I sure hate to contradict ol' Brennan, but digital "chip" amps are a means for manufacturers to make amps cheaper. Company profits shouldn't be the motivating factor for an audiophile. The cheap chip amps are great for a little kid who wants to buy a beginner stereo with his allowance money. They also have an initial "golly, gee whiz" factor, you know, like "Man, this is so cheap!" And "Man, this is so lightweight." And "Man, this is a digital amp, the hip new thing. Be there or be square." Soon, though, if you have good ears, you'll be wondering what you're doing with a plastic amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Chip-amps mean all bets are off. I've heard guys getting incredible sound driving high quality horns with 200-300 dollar JVC and Panasonic chip-amp receivers. Conventional notions and marketing terms like "high end" and "mid-fi" are obsolete. Get with it or get left behind. Feel exclusive or get good sound, your choice. I reckon the best way to improve on the sound you get from one of these new chip-amps is to insert it into this patented horn-loaded upgrade device. Simply place the 200-300 dollar JVC and Panasonic chip-amp receiver into the big end of the horn mouth, and then out of the other end... Bingo! Instant fix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Well, ol' "H.C. Spilk" ought to be good and confused by now! Considering that all klipsch heritage speakers are super easy to drive, why would he need any kind of super beefy amp? Since he didn't specify 2-channel or multi-channel, price range, or anything else, a recommendation is difficult. I would assume though, that he wants something comparable to his Mac, so I would suggest a new Mac, assuming they still make a receiver. Otherwise, B&K would be a good second choice, or the top models from Yamaha, Denon, Sony ES, Pioneer Elite or Onkyo/Integra. A few nits to pick: Who says Chinese gear is all junk? I think there is some very good quality stuff coming out of China these days. Concerning "chip amps", doesn't Linn build one? Hardly low-end! Really, I don't think it is that critical. I drove a pair of horns with a $400 Panasonic receiver for awhile and they still sounded great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 For the money, the Panasonic receivers are good. However, their processors and DACs are cheap. Cheap processors and DACs mean you will get noise and distortion on your very sensitive horns. Cheap DACs have a dynamic range in the 80 db range while good DACs go over 110 db which is hard to clip. Some folks do not notice distortion, noise or clipping, while others may be driven from the room. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 One must take Parrot's assertions on this matter with a grain of salt as he seems to enjoy reacting in a contrary manner to things I say, thus his motives may be untrustworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 McGoo asserts that those who use cheap chip-amp recievers don't hear distortion, noise and clipping. I'm no expert on DACs but do assert here that two of the finest systems I've heard, one using JBL theater horns and the other 72" B&G planar arrays, are driven by JVC and Panasonic chip-amp receivers. Amplifiers sitting on the owner's shelf include Monarchy class As, an Audio-Note 300B SET, a 200wpc DIY Tri-Path, and a 200wpc PP tube Conrad-Johnson. The owner of these systems is widely noted among "Midwest audio hooligans" (as Romy puts it) for his excellent DIY taste and skills. One cannot simply dismiss this class of receivers because they're cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 ... two of the finest systems I've heard, one using JBL theater horns and the other 72" B&G planar arrays, are driven by JVC and Panasonic chip-amp receivers. Amplifiers sitting on the owner's shelf include Monarchy class As, an Audio-Note 300B SET, a 200wpc DIY Tri-Path, and a 200wpc PP tube Conrad-Johnson. One cannot simply dismiss this class of receivers because they're cheap. One cannot simply accept that you are serious with your comments. You seem to delight in denigrating those of us who find merit in our systems based on the Heritage range of loudspekaers. I look to any worthy alternatives offered by you. What do I get? "... two of the finest systems I have heard... are driven by chip-amp receivers..." All at the expense of such fine products as, among others, the Audio Note 300B SET amplifier. I cannot take your comments seriously. For a high end receiver recommendation, as an all in one option, try this Yamaha RX-Z9: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=607&page_number=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Then don't. Who says the Audio Note is fine? The very worst amp I ever heard, worse than the Peavey I once owned even, was an Audio Note 300B that some jasper hooked up to my Altec 605s at the first MAF. It sounded like blanket was draped over the speakers. Listen, anybody here is free to come listen to my stuff and hear my take on things and several here have. And all are free to come to our club meetings and hear what the fellas are up to. The stuff is out there and people can hear it. Some guys in the club use Klipsch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 The fellow that started the thread asked about high end receivers. High end receiver have more capable amps, but are still short of separate amps. High end receiver are feature rich with things like acoustic room correction that works. Some high end receivers decode DVD-As an SACDs. They have processors that can overlay Dolby Prologic IIx over DTS. They have very low noise floors. High end receivers have more and varied inputs that include phono preamps and RF laser disk inputs. The Panasonic digital receivers cannot do many of these things. Their amps are not as robust. On top of that they have about a 3 db higher noise floor. Bang for the buck wise, they are very good. However, they do not fit the description of high end. It is up to each individual to determine where diminishing returns set in. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Might that have been a wet blanket, Mr T? My first impressions of a 300B SET amplifier were less than favorable. It sounds like your first impressions, like mine, were in less than ideal conditions. I'm certainly not going to start championing SET. These amplifiers are for enthusiaists who are willing to accept their bandwidth and dynamic limitations in exchange for a very worthy midrange. But your unreserved championing of new technology, implemented by cutpriced South East Asian manufacturers with questionable build and design ethics, over established high end componentary, is unconvincing. Edit: Of course if you were more circumspect with your assessment, that is; if you stated that these new chip-amps were excellent value for money, but not in absolute terms, I would allow your comments more weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Then don't. Who says the Audio Note is fine? The very worst amp I ever heard, worse than the Peavey I once owned even, was an Audio Note 300B that some jasper hooked up to my Altec 605s at the first MAF. It sounded like blanket was draped over the speakers. Listen, anybody here is free to come listen to my stuff and hear my take on things and several here have. And all are free to come to our club meetings and hear what the fellas are up to. The stuff is out there and people can hear it. Some guys in the club use Klipsch. Peavey, ........ Tom ......???? what were you thinking ........?? Cheap Watts, probably ........[:-*]................[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 i guess i shouldn't rank on PV ...... after all, Hartley has put his money where it counts , many times i can't forget, when EV/ Gulton was delivering the White Paper on CD Horns ..... Peavey was demonstrating ....the Product.... it's just that, while affordable / durable........ lotsa PV stuff sounds like ....... ............well ............. ............................................Dreck...................[:@] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 One must take Parrot's assertions on this matter with a grain of salt as he seems to enjoy reacting in a contrary manner to things I say, thus his motives may be untrustworthy. Now where did I put my violin? It's obvious to anyone who has read more than a few of your posts that your motivation for being on this Forum is to bash Klipsch, which is classic trolling. It's lucky for you that the philosophy of the powers that be is to let trolls knock their speakers all day, but I didn't sign on to that idea. If you bashed some other manufacturer's product day in day out on its forum, I bet they'd ban you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 H.C. Spilk - Seriously, I doubt you will find any new modern receiver that will out perform your old Mac. Macs sound great and are built like tanks. My system is full of old vintage Mc gear mainly because it sounds great and more reliable than any other equipment. When I built my Heritage HT a few years back, I could not find any modern amp that I enjoyed more than my old vintage Macs. That is why my rack has five old vintage Mc solid state amps. Go out and give the new equipment a listen. See what you think. I bet your old 1980 Mc will outlive anything you buy new today. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 I agree with JM--if you like your old Mac, keep your old Mac. It's really unlikely you'll like something else better. A dealer wanting to sell something might tell you what he's got is an upgrade, but it's not very likely to really be. I'm not sure in your first post if you want to replace the Mac or you're setting up a second system? If it's a second system, then I guess you should decide if you want to go another route and use equipment that will provide a different flavor, not necessarily better or worse, just different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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