Thinking of getting a new sub and found a duzzie!!!

[maxg]

The product is from a German company called Backes and Mueller. The unit in question is http://www.backesmueller.de/index.php?CNT=PROD&ID=SUB2&LANG=DE

I have been toying with getting a sub again for some time (I had a Rel Strata 3 for years). It will be purely for music. This is supposed to be the bees knees - and as I am picking up 2nd hand I can get it for a steal - and a home test for a week or so to boot.

This is both the first sub I have seen with 2 woofers (front firing) and the first with both a low and a high pass filter (can you say months to set up properly?).

Thoughts anyone?

Apparently it plays down to 20 Hz @ -3 dB and 16 Hz @ -6. that should be full range enough - especially from a vinyl source...

[colterphoto1]

why get their sub2 when you can get the sub4 Max? I turned the page waiting the sub8, but they haven't made that one, yet.

Looks nice, specs good, tough to cipher, I don't do German.

Michael

[maxg]

why get their sub2 when you can get the sub4 Max? I turned the page waiting the sub8, but they haven't made that one, yet.

Looks nice, specs good, tough to cipher, I don't do German.

Michael

Because 2 sub2's will be even better than one sub 4 in all probability and that is the target end point. 2 sub 4's are out - we are talking serious money here!!!!

[Kriton]

Hey, did you look at the other speakers? What is up with that?

Apparently, they have a pair with an LED readout in the base, and a

remote control, for the speakers? I looked at the one design and

it looks way cool, but there are amps in the things driving

everything...I just don't know, they looked strange but awesome in that

EU sort of way.

Anybody care to follow up on these things and give an impression? I would be very curious to hear this sub.

Mike, strangely enough it appears that the specs on the right are in

English, just the description in german, I am going to babelfish the

paragraphs, and see what the skinny is.

K

[Chris Robinson]

The product is from a German company called Backes and Mueller. The unit in question is http://www.backesmueller.de/index.php?CNT=PROD&ID=SUB2&LANG=DE

Ja, das ist ein Ear-splitten-louden-boomer.

Ausgezeichnet!

Chris

[formica]

This is both the first sub I have seen with 2

woofers (front firing) and the first with both a low and a high pass

filter (can you say months to set up properly?).

I'm not sure what they mean with their low pass filter being adjustable

between 50 and 150Hz... same as the high pass. I'm I reading

wrong? It seems to me that it wouldn't be of much use on a sub.

I'd also like to add that I'm not sure how much bass you mains have

but those subs will have limited output given they are using very small

drivers (8" or 9" based on the picture and the 30cm exterior

width).

I know, only two channel, mostly vinyl... so you needs are modest...

but two of those drivers have a smaller surface area than a 12". I

suppose it would be enough for a Heresy at modest levels...

ROb

[DrWho]

I was thinking the same thing as Rob...at first they looked really cool

until I figured out how small the drivers are. And at 200 watts per

driver you're not talking anything very fancy or high excursion either,

so I'm guessing like 105dB max output (and hopefully they behave

linearly all the way up that "high").

Btw, here's the gist of the article:

(man I can understand it just fine, but interpreting is kinda hard)

first paragraph: lots of people don't have good results with bass...too dull, unrealistic, boomy, etc etc...

second paragraph: this is where we step in and do it right..."clean,

deep and fast." This sub sounds oh so natural, yadda yadda yadda...

basically nothing worth reading, but was fun to practice my german []

One thing that intrigues me is that they choose to use two "8 ohm

amplifiers" instead of strapping the woofers in parallel and using a "4

ohm amp." They're missing out on 6dB of free gain with their approach!

(assuming the drivers could handle it)

[DrWho]

Hey, did you look at the other speakers? What is up with that?

Apparently, they have a pair with an LED readout in the base, and a

remote control, for the speakers? I looked at the one design and

it looks way cool, but there are amps in the things driving

everything...I just don't know, they looked strange but awesome in that

EU sort of way.

Anybody care to follow up on these things and give an impression? I would be very curious to hear this sub.

Mike, strangely enough it appears that the specs on the right are in

English, just the description in german, I am going to babelfish the

paragraphs, and see what the skinny is.

I feel the idea behind putting the amps in the speaker is a very very

good move to make....especially if you can run a balanced connection

from the pre-amp. The reason is because it is very very easy to build

an amp specified for a particular driver rather than trying to build an

amp that must work with every driver in the world. In fact, it would be

but a trivial matter to create the perfect amplifier to speaker

relationship and you'd never have to worry about finding that perfect

amp to mate with your speakers (assuming of course the engineers took

their time to get it right). With the onslaught of tri-path amplifiers

(being able to run off a 9V source), I wouldn't be surprised to see a

new powered speaker interface come into the market that provides both

the signal and the power source for the speaker (which is ultimately

the biggest issue with powered speakers - it could be as simple as the

5 pin XLR's that are already used in closed circuit headset talkbalk

systems). It would also be relatively easy to implement an active

crossover and tri-amp the system, which presents all sorts of other

flexibility in the design that can be tweaked by teh manufacturer (at

minimal extra cost) and save the end user a huge hassle in the setup.

[maxg]

This is both the first sub I have seen with 2 woofers (front firing) and the first with both a low and a high pass filter (can you say months to set up properly?).

I'm not sure what they mean with their low pass filter being adjustable between 50 and 150Hz... same as the high pass. I'm I reading wrong? It seems to me that it wouldn't be of much use on a sub.

I'd also like to add that I'm not sure how much bass you mains have but those subs will have limited output given they are using very small drivers (8" or 9" based on the picture and the 30cm exterior width).

I know, only two channel, mostly vinyl... so you needs are modest... but two of those drivers have a smaller surface area than a 12". I suppose it would be enough for a Heresy at modest levels...

ROb

OK - there were lots of questions in this thread - some of which I do not know the answers to but I will give you what I have and answer the rest once I have tested in my system.

The answers I know are:

1. The high pass and low pass filters are separate. It appears to use this feature you cable this sub in BETWEEN the amp and the pre-amp using either RCA or balanced connections depending on what you have.

If you do not want to use the high pass facility you can simply run the sub either from the output from the pre - or from the amp.

2. I have no idea yet as to what kind of volume level this sub will produce. I guess it is not huge - but as I intend to use this entirely for music that should not be a problem - my volume levels never climb much over 100 dB - even for parties - and that level is an annual event. Mostly listening is 70-85 dB and I want the sub to fill in at this listening level.

3. Their Main speaker range is very interesting - not only are they amplified speakers but they are also equiped with a bunch of electronics to tailor the sound (including some form of parametric equalizer) so that, in theory, you can tailor each installation exactly to the room it is in. I have not tested this - but I have seen and heard some of the speakers. Nothing to write home about IMHO - but I have no idea how well setup they were.

That is all I have for now - they look like an interesting alternative to the REL's I have had before and are certainly worth a play - if not a pay....

Will post back with results when I get them.

[maxg]

Well I went round to the shop to pick it up and couldn't - literally.

I am gonna need help getting this thing installed. The guy that is selling it said it was 25 kilos - about 55 lbs - he was wrong. I knew that. I can lift 25 Kilos on my own. I couldnt do anything but slide this bugger across the floor - according to the manual it is actually 45 kilos - or 100 lbs - without the packaging (which is serious).

Anyway - all being well it will arrive tomorrow - if I can peruade him to lend a hand on a Sunday. Till not figured out what to tell SWMBO - she has no idea what is coming.

[formica]

not figured out what to tell SWMBO - she has no idea what is coming.

I'd start by telling her it's only 25kg... []