Nutcracker versions.

[colterphoto1]

Hello gang, just got from Milwaukee where we saw the Ballet doing The Nutcracker. A friends 11 year old daughter danced in it. Just wondering if any of the classical aficianados knew of any spectacular recordings of this piece that are available on CD. (no expensive LP versions please).

I have one in my Holiday music collection which is the London Symphony Orchestra, on a Victoria's Secret CD.

Thanks, and if you're ever in Milwaukee, their performing arts center is top notch!

Michael

[Speedball]

Thought we had more than just this one but here is all I found. Tchaikovsky's Greatest Hit...The Ultimate Nutcracker...

It's a BMG disc and is sort of Christmassey

[LarryC]

Michael,

Did you get my PM's? The recording that looked good (great orchestra, good conductor, also has Swan Lake) on Amazon. com is the following:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000001GX7/qid=1135011860/sr=8-6/ref=pd_bbs_6/104-4113065-6082368?v=glance&s=music&n=507846

I think you were curious about the celesta. It's a very high-pitched percussion instrument that sounds a bit like a glockenspiel. It resembles a small upright piano, and patented in 1886 just in time for Tchaikovsky to pick up on it for the Nutcracker -- he was a very innovative orchestrator, especially in his ballets.

Excerpted from Britannica: The celesta consists of a series of small metal bars with a keyboard and a simplified piano action in which small felt hammers strike the bars. Each bar is resonated by a wooden box or chamber tuned to reinforce the fundamental harmonic (component tone) ofthe bar. A pedal lifts a felt-pad damper from the bars, permitting use of either sustained or short notes. The normal range is four octaves upward from middle C.

Larry

[colterphoto1]

No Larry no PM's came through, but thanks for your recommendation here.

SO that celesta is what, an easier to play, louder version of the xylophone, with wider range and control over the sustain?

I noticed a wide range of sounds, some short stacatto blasts on bassoon at one point, oboe vs clarinet, heavily plucked strings. Very cool orchestration. I think I pick this kind of activity out from classical works because of my background in classically influenced rock and roll where the range and sound of traditional instruments is enhanced and stretched- ie guitars sounding not very much like guitars anymore, synthesizers, bizarre percussion.

I noted that although the house had great PA board and flown rig, there were no mics whatsoever in the orchestra pit. I think the only thing mic'd was maybe a kids chorus that I'm told by a stage Mom was backstage, no room for them in the pit and they appeared only briefly. That celesta sounded magnificent and was a beautiful instrument to behold. Bet that's some bucks

Michael

[LarryC]

I'm on someone else's computer out of town and PM replies don't seem to work. The celesta has more delicate, higher-pitched bell-like metallic sounds with lots of overtones, amplified with resonators, which cut through orchestration and carry a long way. Xylophones sound woody and duller, although they have a lot of power. I don't know if a celesta can be played as fast as a xylo.

Tchaikovsky had an amazingly varied orchestration in his ballets, with a lot of woodwind (including piccolo) and brass solos and contrasts. While not as in-your-face with it, the Arabian Dance nicely contrasts a long oboe melody and a repeat an octave lower by the English horn. You're sure to pick it out.

An orchestra has plenty of power and is almost never mic'd. It sounds very inferior and limited when it is. Like a triangle, the celesta's high ringing pitches cut right through the rest of the sound.

Larry

[colterphoto1]

Very astute of you Larry, my durn ears picked up that triangle as feedback. The first couple times I instinctively shot an angry glance back at the sound booth. It wasn't him. But that clear ringing tone does cut through. I was amazed at the punch (?) the flutes had, they must have doubled or trebled up on them to get that volume.

I still have that celeste ringing in my ears. It was heavenly.

And Larry, was it Bassoons that I would have heard with a very short bum-bum , bum-bum (forget which song or act, sorry) I couldn't think of what other instrument it would be.

Maybe it's because I'm new, but I loved the strings/horns interplay. Kinda like two guitarists dueling it out. One Strat, one Les Paul, different voices, same theme, back and forth- and from our seats you could feel the music source move from side to side in the pit. I employed the Woodog listening technique (is it will henceforth be known) to get good spatial clues. It does really help to block out the visual and let the soundstage develop in front of you.

Damn, I might become a classical junkie if I keep talking like this![]

Michael

[LarryC]

Flutes, and in fact all the woodwinds, have quite a bit of power. Note that even one flute will balance an entire 12- to 16-member violin section and still be clearly heard because the tone is so different. Same thing with oboes and bassoons. Clarinets can be harder to distinguish in their weaker middle range.

The triangle is very different from the celesta; it "dings" with an indefinite pitch, while the celesta plays distinct notes -- the Sugar Plum Fairy used the celesta to play harmonies, which you can hear fairly clearly. (Triangles can't play together in harmonies.)

Yep, the bassoon did the bup-bip-bup-bip way down below in the Dance of the Mirlitons (sp?), while 3 flutes played on top in harmony.

Keep going while you're still ahead!

Larry

[colterphoto1]

Larry, it's so good to have something musical in common to discuss with you. I knew from meeting you in Hope that you have a very studied approach to your appreciation of the symphony.

My guess is that 'cutting through' of various sounds might have something with them being simple wave forms (sine) versus complex tones with many overtones that might mask the fundamental. However, the violin is also close to a sine wave, so that shoots that theory of flute vs violin.

I found the triangle to be almost bothersome. It's ring modulation seemed to cling in the air and mask every other sound. Funny how such a tiny instrument which moves so little air can have such a psychoacoustic effect.

Glad that I picked up on the bassoon. I love it's deep, rich tone.

I think it time that I pick up a book my cousin bought me a while back. Some kind of Guide to Appreciation of Classical Music. I've got maybe 25 or so CD's here but don't know if anything very worthwhile. Just a hodgepodge of various composers.

How do I tell if I've got a 'good' recording or version, or a 'top shelf' orchestra Larry? I'm lost here?

Michael

[Bill H.]

Michael,

Some thing that might help with listening to the effects of different instruments is

Prokofiev's Peter & The Wolf . .....as the story is read, different instruments make the effects

of the characters and what they are doing.........it is magical.....

[LarryC]

Michael, you're so right about a different overtone ratio (percents of 2nd, 3rd, etc. harmonic in the mix) for each instrument, but the violin has a very complex overtone pattern. I think the flute does, too, but the difference in those patterns absolutely accounts for the different sounds. Also, some instruments have a very different start to each note, for example the very noticeable breath component (like musical jugs) that begins each flute note.

The triangle is probably prominent because it produces a discordant, unordered mass of very high pitched tones and overtones (that's why it doesn't have a definite pitch), and because all those powerful high tones are way higher in pitch than almost anything else playing.

One book I'm impressed with is Classical Music for Dummies. I suggest you pick that up and use it as a reference book, i.e., if you pull out a Tchaikovsky piece, read about him in the Dummies book and perhaps another Tchaikovsky or two to get him 'n' his music better nailed down. I'm out of town and don't have it handy, but am pretty sure it has a good section on instruments. Attention to the variety of instruments plays a special role in liking classical music IMO.

I can't give you any guidance on how to tell you have a good recording! There would be lots of disagreement. Several of us -- Parrot, Wolfram, Max, Gary, Boomac, and many others would be happy to chime in on particular recordings that they like. I can do the same sometimes. But a lot of it is someone having a recording they especially like. Good orchestras are (in no special order) the Berlin Philharmonic, Vienna Philharmonic, Chicago Symphony, LA Philharmonic, Boston Syphony, London Philharmonic -- to name a few.

You might search on "classical music" in the forum, if it still works like it did with the old software. Many, many recommendations were in those threads.

You might also move the topic to 2-channel, since I think that's where classical guys hang the most.

Larry