Underhanded Penguin Posted October 14, 2001 Share Posted October 14, 2001 Hi Tom. I was doing a bit of reading on your company and line of subwoofers and I just wanted to say that I admire your business model. It's refreshing to know that you guys take such a hands on approach to your products and services. If you don't mind me asking, if the demand for your product increases, (and no doubt it will) how do you plan on expanding your company? I hope you guys will maintain an excellent level of control over your products. I believe that you can still achieve that with outsourcing as long as it is done properly. I think it's very interesting to see how successful and smaller web based companies operate. Another one that comes to mind is Outlaw A/V Receivers. Good luck with your business. Question for you: I plan on buying one of your subs. Do you know off hand if there are any taxes added to the products that the customer must pay if I live in Canada because you guys are shipping from the States? I ordered something from the States that was 50 bucks once and ended up paying 15 dollars in taxes. (What happened to free trade???) I know you guys have shipped up north before. I have not had much experience ordering anything else from the States. Thx. -UP ------------------ I love you Aki Ross! This message has been edited by Underhanded Penguin on 10-14-2001 at 08:34 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 14, 2001 Share Posted October 14, 2001 Tom if you would answer Penguin's question this would also help me and other interested buyers. As you know Tom I was very impressed by the SVS Ultra subs and recomend them to all who are looking for a true High-End sub value. Thanks for the info in advance. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVodhanel Posted October 14, 2001 Share Posted October 14, 2001 >>>Hi Tom. I was doing a bit of reading on your company and line of subwoofers and I just wanted to say that I admire your business model. It's refreshing to know that you guys take such a hands on approach to your products and services. If you don't mind me asking, if the demand for your product increases, (and no doubt it will) how do you plan on expanding your company?<<< We'll just wing it really. I don't expect sales to ever approach any of the big boys though. We're not even a blip on their radar...maybe a flea on a blip...nothing more >>> I hope you guys will maintain an excellent level of control over your products. I believe that you can still achieve that with outsourcing as long as it is done properly. I think it's very interesting to see how successful and smaller web based companies operate. Another one that comes to mind is Outlaw A/V Receivers. Good luck with your business.<<< There's tough business related decisions to make daily of course...we do our best. >>>Question for you: I plan on buying one of your subs. Do you know off hand if there are any taxes added to the products that the customer must pay if I live in Canada because you guys are shipping from the States? I ordered something from the States that was 50 bucks once and ended up paying 15 dollars in taxes. (What happened to free trade???) I know you guys have shipped up north before. I have not had much experience ordering anything else from the States.<<< Nafta, customs charges will be added to anything we ship from the USA up north. I don't know what the charges usually end up being...but your ratio($15 per $50)doesn't sound far off. We ship subs to Canada a few times a week though...so we're still getting a foothold. TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doobie Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 FYI - I bought a 20-39PC (~$770 US) a while back and the duty/taxes/brokerage from UPS came out to ~$250 CDN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underhanded Penguin Posted October 16, 2001 Author Share Posted October 16, 2001 Hi doobs. Is your fisrt name Garfield by any chance? I went to a restaurant in Ajax last weekend and the kitchen manager was named Garfiel Dooby. Fat chance I think, but anyways... So how is the 20-39pc? Can you give a comparison to some other subs that you have used or heard before? I have a Paradigm PW2200 for now but I may consider taking it back for something better. If you could give me your opinion on this sub that would be great. THX in advance. -UP ------------------ I love you Aki Ross! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVodhanel Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 >>I have a Paradigm PW2200 for now but I may consider taking it back for something better. If you could give me your opinion on this sub that would be great. THX in advance.<<< What is it about the PW2200 you're not liking? How large is your room...and how close to *reference* levels do you tend to push the system on action oriented DVDs? the PW2200 is a fantastic subwoofer in it's price range...I don't believe a 20-39PC would be thought of as a day/night improvement. Tv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacevedo Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 TV, Would a single 20-39 PC be considered a night and day improvement over a KSW 12? Just wondering how big the difference is on this one as well. I am also looking into the RSW12 and the Velodyne SPL1200. Wondering if the difference is night and day there, too, vs the KSW 12. Thanks, Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVodhanel Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 Here's the performance of the 4 subs mentioned...during the Tom Nousaine tests... PW2200(108/20hz~84/25hz~104dB) KSW12(100/20hz~70/25hz~90) SPL1200(107.1/20hz~90dB/25hz~99) 20-39cs(109.5/20hz~91dB/25hz~105.8) the SW12 isn't in the same league as the others...you'd note a HUGE increase in lowend bass by using any of the other 3. For example...it would take about 4-8 of the ksw12s to equal one 20-39cs <35hz(ish). TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacevedo Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 Thanks - that's what I needed to see. I can use it to show my wife! "What a bargain - I only have to buy one of these new subs, otherwise I will have to buy about 7 more of the KSW 12 subs to get the same performance!" I am interested to see how the RSW12 stacks up, especially against the SPL1200 and 20-39PC. I would love to keep my system all Klipsch, but it is performance that matters. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 I think that it is a testimony to the strength of this web site, the integrity of the company and its old fashioned mid-west values that Tom V hangs out here at all; and that somebody hasn't said "hey, you don't belong here!" I hope that he continues to aid our discussions and compliment the Klipsch product line. I am one person who enjoys his comments and lists. Colin P.S. okay, all together now: "for he's a jolly good fella, he's a jolly good fella ..." This message has been edited by Colin on 10-16-2001 at 06:14 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 OUCH the Klipsch KSW12 gets a vicious beating down low! The Velodyne gives its best down low(20Hz)where it almost matches the SVS!Did I say Cylinder series! Only the PW2200 competes in price.the SPL1200 is over $1200 US!At this prive a SVS Ultra will knock the SPL1200 out of the SUB BASS ring. SVS subs are well balanced!Often some brands will be strong around 25Hz and lose steam down low.Not so with SVS. Nice TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underhanded Penguin Posted October 20, 2001 Author Share Posted October 20, 2001 Hi Tom. Would you happen to have TN specs of the KSW-15 relative to the SVS subs and pw2200? I'm just curious as these are the subs I am considering. I returned my faulty pw2200 and was looking at other options around the same price range. Thanx in advance. -UP ------------------ I love you Aki Ross! This message has been edited by Underhanded Penguin on 10-20-2001 at 04:18 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 TV posted this list in the Krell Monster sub thread... ( * ) denotes a manual data adjustment applied by myself to compensate the subwoofer from Nousaine's *small* room(2200) to his newer *large* room(7500). SVS Dual 20-39cs/600w package 115.5 /20hz~97dB / 25hz ~111.8dB / 31hz ~120.9dB(124dB peaks). STRYKE HE15 proto-type 115.3 / 16hz~99 25hz~106 VELODYNE F1800 - 111.9 SV 20-39cs(W/300 watts)109.5 / 20hz~91 / 25hz~105.8 VELODYNE FSR15 - 109.1 / 16hz~90.1 / 25hz~103.1 VELODYNE HGS15 - 107.7 / 16hz~89.1 Paradigm PW2200 - 107.4 / 20hz~84 / 25hz ~104dB (112.8dB peak) Paradigm Servo15 - 107.3 / 27hz VELODYNE SPL12 - 107.1 / 20hz ~90 /25hz ~ 99 HSU RESEARCH TN25(w/250w) - 107.1 / 30hz HSU RESEARCH VTF-2 - 107.1 / 20hz~93/25hz~99dB Cerwin Vega cvt300s - 107 / 16hz~80db / 20hz~92(112.4dB peak) KLIPSCH KSW300 - 106.0 / 25hz~92 * Cerwin Vega LW12 - 106.0 / 20hz~89 POLK 650 -105.9 / 25hz~90 Infinity 1.2s - 105.5 / 20hz ~90 / 25hz~95 BW asw1000 - 105.4 / 25hz~92.4 * MK mx125 mkII - 105.3 / 20hz 89 / 25hz 95 VELODYNE ct150 - 105.3 / 20hz~82(111.4dB peak) JBL D112 - 105.2 / 25hz~95 Boston Acoustics PV800 - 104.4 / 20hz~85 DT PF15TL+ - 104 / 20hz~88 MISSION 700ASi - 104 / 20hz~82 Infinity MSW1- 104 /20hz~79 Phase Technology PC500(towers) - 103.6 Infinity interlude100 - 103.5 / 25hz ~ 94 BW asw2000 - 103 / 29hz * PSB Subsonic6 - 102.7 / 25hz~94 Sound Dynamics rts1200 - 102.1 / 25hz~92(110.9dB peak) Infinity IL100s - 102dB / 25hz ~94dB VELODYNE ct120 - 101 / 20hz~87 MK - mx105 -100.6 / 25hz~86 ATLANTIC TECH 272 PBM - 100.5 / 20hz~85 INFINITY hps250 - 100.2 / 25hz~82(112.8dB peak) KLIPSCH LF10 - 100.1 / 25hz~90 KLIPSCH KSW12 - 100 / 25hz~90 /20hz~ 70 PSB subsonic 3i - 100 / 28hz * MISSION ms70asa - 100/32hz~92 SUNFIRE Jr. - 100 / 25hz~95 VELODYNE VLF810 - 100 / 25hz~91 Canbridge - 100 / 20hz ~82 POLK PSW350 - 99.8 / 25hz~82 VELODYNE FSR12 - 99.7 / 20hz JAMO E 8sub - 99 / 25hz~ 86 VELODYNE VA1012 - 99 / 29hz JBL PB10 - 99 / 25hz 82 POLK RMDS-1 - 98.6 / 25hz- 77 VELODYNE FSR10 - 98.4 / 20hz BW asw2500 - 98 / 25hz~86 /20hz~79 ENERGY ES12xl - 98 / 28hz * Paradigm PDR10 - 98 / 25hz PHASE tech power8 - 98 / 25hz~84 Polk psw250 - 97.3 / 32hz~91 ATHENA S3 - 97.0 / 25hz~87 Energy S8.2 - 97 / 25hz ~82 VELODYNE CT80 - 97.0 / 25hz~81 MIRAGE frx s10 - 97 / 25hz~84 JAMO sw505 - 97 Klispch KSW10 - 96.9 / 25hz~85 TANNOY PS110 - 96.8 / 20hz~71 / 25hz~84 CANTON AS25 - 96.8 / 25hz~80 MK V-1250thx - 96 / 25hz~86 Atlantic technology 4.5 - 96 / 25hz~82 ATHENA S2 - 96 / 25hz~87 ACI titan - 96dB / 25hz~80 PSB alphasubzero - 95.2 / 32hz~88 Aura Lss-107A - 95.2 / 25hz~73 Celestion cswII - 95 / 25hz~78 Paradigm 90P(towers) - 95 / 20hz GALLO MPS-150 - 95.0 / 25hz~86 ENERGY ENCORE - 94.4 / 25hz~78 ENERGY XL8 - 94 / 25hz~78 POLK PS-120 - 94 / 32hz -no SPL given Wharfedale Modus - 93.1dB DEF TECH BP2002TL Tower - 92.3 / 25hz ~80(single tower) Paradigm PD8 91.4 / 25hz~73dB MK k9 - 90.1 / 25hz~77 Cerwin Vega hts15 - 89 (107 from 40-100hz) / 39hz DEF TECH Pro Tower400 - 89 / 25hz~81d (single tower) DEF TECH BP 2006TL Tower - 88.4 / 25hz ~73(single tower) ATHENA P1 88.5/ 32hz~85.5 -----------the following use a 25-50hz range---------- Boston Acoustics VR2000 -109dB Hsu Research 12V (150w) -106.5dB / 25hz - no SPL given Cerwin Vega HT-PWR12 -105.9dB / 25hz - no SPL given BW asw800 -105.1dB / 26hz - no SPL given Klipsch SW12 series2 -104.6dB ~(32-50hz) / 32hz - no SPL given ADS ms3 -104dB Phase Technology 1.0 Octave -103.3dB / 25hz -no SPL given Velodyne VA-1215x -102.6dB / 25hz - no SPL given BAGEND 18" -102.5dB * MK MX-125 101.8 - dB / 25hz - no SPL given TRIAD Silver - 100.2dB / 25hz - no SPL given PBS Subsonic III - 100.1dB / 25hz - no SPL given SUNFIRE <100dB MK V75 MarkII -98.1dB Allison NL-5400P -96.4dB / 25hz -no SPL given Altec Lansing PSW10 -95.5dB /32hz - no SPL given KEF 30B AV - 93.5 dB ~(32-50hz) / 32hz - no SPL given ---the following use a 31hz to 63hz range.--- Boston Acoustics cr400 - 99dB / 25hz - no SPL given Paradigm PS-1200 -98dB / 25hz~91.4dB ** Phase Technology power10 -98dB / 25hz-no SPL given Acoustic Research S12ho - 97dB / 32hz-no SPL given Mirage PS-12 - 96dB / 32hz -no SPL given Sound Dynamics RTS-800 - 95dB / 32hz~92dB MK vx-7 - 89dB / 32hz-no SPL given Audiosource SW eleven - 88dB / 32hz~78dB ---the following use a 31hz to 80hz range.--- POLK psw150 - 105.4dB MB Quart D1200si - 104dB NHT sw 1p - 101.9dB BOSE am15 bass module - 100dB / 32hz ~97dB INFINITY BU120 - 100dB / 32hz~90dB MIRAGE PS-8 - 99dB / 32hz~90.7dB Sound Dynamics rts800 - 98dB PSB Subsonic 1 - 97dB Paradigm LEGEND tower(10"-100w built-in sub) -93.1dB NOUSAINE's IB design - (12-63hz) - 120dB The four DIY setups NOUSAINE reviewed in the JAN-1999 AUDIO...(all 25-63hz) RK(4-18s) - 126dB TH(4-15s) - 116dB RP(2-18s) - 107dB TP(8-12s) - 123dB Even with some subs missing,this list is quite complete. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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