vacs2000 Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 Hi agian, In my endless course to find out what has been repaired on my Cornwall I from 1974 I have to following question : Both woofer suppose to be the CTS one. But defiantely they are not the same in my case. So : A. How big is the middle round tap/cover { I donnot know the word in english ) when we look the woofer from the front ? In one of my CTS is the same size as the newer Eminence speaker. On the other is smaller. B. The surrounds of the woofer are wooven/zig-zag type or is it flat/round ?? I'll try some photos lates this evening. thank you george ------------------ --------------------- Fisher 400-CX pre-amp Fisher 100 (EL37) monoblocks (3) Fisher 101R tuner Fisher 100-MPX Sony SCD-333ES Ampex 1260 reel to rell Garrard 401/SME3012R/Grado Speakers... ------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 The surrounds on the CTS woofers in my 1974 Heresys are orange accordion cloth (woven, zigzag). Same goes for my 1972 models. I think all of the CTS woofers used by Klipsch were this way. Later model woofers manufactured by Eminence and others had paper accordion surrounds that were part of the cone itself. The difference in dust cover size does not mean a lot. Sometimes people replace a damaged dust cover. But, dust covers are also replaced when a speaker is reconed. The difference in surround is certainly significant. By flat, round surround do you mean a foam or butyl rubber surround? I don't think any of the Klipsch Heritage speakers from the 1970s used that. So, that would mean that either the surround has been replaced or the woofer itself. If you pull the back off the speaker in question you should be able to tell more. The CTS woofers had alnico magnets. They should have a heavy D shaped steel magnet circuit on the back of the woofer. There should be a Klipsch label on the back of the woofer with the number K-33. Also, if there is an EIA production code on it, it should start with 137 for CTS. But, there may not be one there. Or, it may be covered by the Klipsch logo. If the woofer in question has a round or square ceramic magnet, it is not the original CTS woofer. If everything checks out on the inside, it is possible that one of the speakers has been reconed, or at least had the surround and dust cover replaced. Either could account for the difference in size of the dust cover and difference in surround. Actually, it seems more likely to me that it would have been reconed than just had the surround replaced. The cloth surrounds were stronger than the cones themselves. If the cone was replaced, the spider may have been replaced, too. If just the surround and dust cap on one woofer was replaced, you may want to replace the surrounds on both woofers. The compliance of the surround affects the sound of the woofer. They need to be the same for a proper match. If the cone and spider was replaced, you may be looking at reconing and replacing the spiders on both woofers for the same reason. Or you might be able to find an unrepaired, vintage K-33 to replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacs2000 Posted November 1, 2001 Author Share Posted November 1, 2001 Voila the photos. So from your description I tend to believe that the blue one might be original while the other definately is another speaker. I took out the back covers and both are CTS same magnet structure. Anyway I have to live with them which is OK (..close..). thank you for your replies. ------------------ --------------------- Fisher 400-CX pre-amp Fisher 100 (EL37) monoblocks (3) Fisher 101R tuner Fisher 100-MPX Sony SCD-333ES Ampex 1260 reel to rell Garrard 401/SME3012R/Grado Speakers... ------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 After the early 70's, CTS went from round alnico, to ceramic, square magnets. CTS used the same cone, basket and specs, just different magnets. The big square magnets are definitely CTS - cones, magnets, baskets, and codes for the original square magnet K33-B's in my 1977 Cornwalls are CTS. Also, early K33-E's are also CTS - also with square magnets. Later (including current) K33-E's are Eminence and have round magnets and the basket is different. CTS woofers in big Klipsch ended in the early 80's. From the picture George, it appears you have one original cone with a replacement blue surround (maybe the original ripped?), and the other woofer with the ribbed cone is a "recone." If the speakers are at K33 spec, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Warm regards, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacs2000 Posted November 2, 2001 Author Share Posted November 2, 2001 Finally I took down both speakers, open the back covers and : A. Indeed the "blue" one been a CTS square magnet has the Klipsch label stick and intack on the magnet. So it is as Klipschguy is saying. B. The recone one firsr it has a different color metalic (while the "blue" is black) and alas the sticker the Klipsch labe sticker K-33-B was lying somewhere on the side of the cabinet. So it was definately a recone still it has a square magnet but I cannot read nothing more than 137 on the magnet. So I cannot even say if it is a good/bad recone of the orignal speaker or a completely different type of speaker. Been sad...I replace it with a spare K-33-E I have brand new. !!!!! hehe I could not believe my ears..Are you sure the CTS speaker K-33-B in general is a good one ??!! (in original cindition) From what I hear there is no way back. Anyway everything is pretty personal listening. lets listen to some music finally. george ------------------ --------------------- Fisher 400-CX pre-amp Fisher 100 (EL37) monoblocks (3) Fisher 101R tuner Fisher 100-MPX Sony SCD-333ES Ampex 1260 reel to rell Garrard 401/SME3012R/Grado Speakers... ------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 The K33 CTS woofer is perfect match for the Cornwall enclosure. Load the CTS K33 specs into a BassBox program (or others), and it will give you enclosure and port dimensions exactly like the Cornwalls. My ears verify the above info. My CTS K33's will really put out some hard hitting, deep bass. If your speaker sounds much better with the reconed woofer replaced with a K33-E, then you can conclude it was a "bad recone." Also, if the blue replacement surround in the other speaker is too stiff, it will definitely affect your bass too. A new surround can be installed by a qualified speaker repair shop for about $25. If you do replace the surround, do a search on this forum for the "K33" specs and hand them to the speaker repair guy so he can have an idea of the surround's compliance. He can also replace the dust cap to make it look like the other driver. Regards, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacs2000 Posted November 2, 2001 Author Share Posted November 2, 2001 Thank you so I will assume that the specs for the K-33-E also applies to the CTS model. Looks reasonable. george ------------------ --------------------- Fisher 400-CX pre-amp Fisher 100 (EL37) monoblocks (3) Fisher 101R tuner Fisher 100-MPX Sony SCD-333ES Ampex 1260 reel to rell Garrard 401/SME3012R/Grado Speakers... ------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 No, the Eminence version of the K33-E has different specs than the CTS K33, K33-B, and early K33-E (all the same woofer). CTS K33: Re 3.39Ohms Le .96 Qm 7.39 Qe .410 Qt .390 Xmax 8.2mm Bl 11.88 TM Eff 2.91% Mms 34.46g Cms 78.59 microns/N Vas 301.66 L SD 889.59 EBP 84.4 SPL 96.6 dB RMS 2.3 NS/M Pmax 100W Eminence K33-E: Re 3.5 Ohms Le 1mH R 1.03 Ohms @ 1KHz Fs 27.99 Hz Sd .0890 sq M Xmax 6.67mm Vas 343 L Qts .633 Qes .684 Qms 8.5 Bl 9.8 TM Mms 106g Cms 305 microns/N SPL 92.30 dB Pmax 150W Hope this helps, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnBob Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I've got a pair of Cornwalls (the decorator kind) I bought new in February of 1974. The woofers have never been reconed or repaired in any way. (The tweeters are another matter!) They have square magnets and dark blue surrounds. While I've got some knowledgeable people's attention here, let me ask a question. I've noticed the cones and particularly the dust caps are turning brown, like they're sun-fading, although aside from an occasional outdoor use, they have not been exposed to sunlight. Is this a cause for alarm? I somehow don't think paint or Armor-All is the answer... Thanks, Capt' Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 George, Glad to hear that you can be pretty sure that at least one of them is original. You've got the right idea, enjoy your Cornwalls! If they sound the same, I wouldn't worry. Anyone, Sounds to me like 1974, or maybe 1973, was the year they switched from alnico to ceramic magnets on the Cornwall woofers. Can anyone verify this? I remember looking at a bud's Cornwalls when he got them, which I am pretty sure was in 1974, and the woofers had alnico magnets. But that was a long time ago. Capt, I think you are seeing the natural life cycle of paper cones. Sunlight can fade and damage paper speaker cones. Moisture, too. Just because your speakers spent their lives inside doesn't mean they are not affected. It just takes longer depending on their environment. I've seen NOS speakers from the fifties that looked brand new. And I've much newer speakers than yours look like what you described. I wouldn't worry about the dust cap as long as it is intact. But its easy to replace if you want to. Of course, the big problem is that the cones can become very brittle. I don't think there is a good fix for that short of reconing. You could coat it with something to extend its life. Some people like to use lacquer. But it can change the sound by changing the mass and stiffness of the cone. And, I doubt it would help resale value. I would suggest that as long as you speakers sound good to you, just go ahead and enjoy. And plan on a recone someday. A good recone isn't all that expensive and will restore you speaker to its original sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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