steamer Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Chops, Thanks for posting the photos, it looks like you have a number of things going on. I noticed the DIY bass traps. Could you tell us a little about them & their design & construction and what the impact has been? Good Luck, -Tom Sorry Tom, but I'm at a loss here. What are you referring to as bass traps? I only ask because I don't have any. [8-)] Charles LOL,Charles I think Tom is refering to my pic. Tom, The hanging bass traps are Sonotubes used for pouring concrete footings.I have cut holes in them and filled with standard fiberglass isulation.When I first built them I had caps on the top and bottom opening of the tube.My impression was they were worthless then I got the idea to open up the ends of the tube and hang them,previously they sat on the floor.With the tubes open on the ends there is a difference in my room.Cant say they would work for someone elses room.Its a cheap expieriment to try. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 **The Crown D-75A amp is AFTER the crossover and there is nothing but wire between the amp and driver. This model amp has been rumored to produce some kind of thump durring power up/down. The cap is ONLY there to protect the Altec 902 driver from that "thump" if it ever happens. It is not intended for anything else but that. I know where the amp is. So tell me, how can you have "nothing but wire between the amp and the driver" when you have a 50uF cap hanging off the positive input of the driver? **Since the 511B horn is all aluminum (non-magnetic), I see no point behind the bolt issue. Besides, those are the studs and nuts that came with the Altec drivers. The bolts screw right into the magnetic structure of the driver. I was under the impression the fixing bolts should be non-ferrous (stainless or brass). **Not to sound harsh or anything, but maybe you shouldn't conduct "half-arsed" experiments and post the results. Those results wouldn't be valid and therefore be void. Half-arsed in the sense that I used an older unit with limited features. The fact that it was older might have been a contributing factor as to why is didn't sound all that clean to me. At any rate, you're the expert -- what was I thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Duke -- I used an older Rane unit I found abandoned at our Church. It only had 24dB/octave capability, and I could only do one speaker in a triamped config. I didn't have much trouble dialing things in, and what I heard didn't have anything to do with sensitivity -- what it had to do with is solid grate and nasty opamps. I'm using JBL 2470's, and on Al's Trachorn I'm 4dB down at 450 Hz. I might give it another go around later in the year when I can throw more money into it. I'm sure a new unit will sound better -- but it's not going to have the attributes of a good tube setup and a pair of simple passives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 chops you have a PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 **The Crown D-75A amp is AFTER the crossover and there is nothing but wire between the amp and driver. This model amp has been rumored to produce some kind of thump durring power up/down. The cap is ONLY there to protect the Altec 902 driver from that "thump" if it ever happens. It is not intended for anything else but that. I know where the amp is. So tell me, how can you have "nothing but wire between the amp and the driver" when you have a 50uF cap hanging off the positive input of the driver? **Since the 511B horn is all aluminum (non-magnetic), I see no point behind the bolt issue. Besides, those are the studs and nuts that came with the Altec drivers. The bolts screw right into the magnetic structure of the driver. I was under the impression the fixing bolts should be non-ferrous (stainless or brass). **Not to sound harsh or anything, but maybe you shouldn't conduct "half-arsed" experiments and post the results. Those results wouldn't be valid and therefore be void. Half-arsed in the sense that I used an older unit with limited features. The fact that it was older might have been a contributing factor as to why is didn't sound all that clean to me. At any rate, you're the expert -- what was I thinking. I was goingto answer you, but since you're getting this stupid little cocky additude going here, I'm just not going to bother. Ahh... what the heck... I may not be an expert, but I'm not confused either. I mean, what the heck is so hard to understand about that 51uF cap being there?!?! It's NOT rocket science!... "nothing but wire between the amp and the driver" - Meaning before the CAP was inserted, NOT after. DUH! Lay off the beer. It's making you too moody and incoherent. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Duke -- I used an older Rane unit I found abandoned at our Church. It only had 24dB/octave capability, and I could only do one speaker in a triamped config. I didn't have much trouble dialing things in, and what I heard didn't have anything to do with sensitivity -- what it had to do with is solid grate and nasty opamps. I'm using JBL 2470's, and on Al's Trachorn I'm 4dB down at 450 Hz. I might give it another go around later in the year when I can throw more money into it. I'm sure a new unit will sound better -- but it's not going to have the attributes of a good tube setup and a pair of simple passives. the Rane ...probably has the same opamps as the sweet lil' D-75, so there's more at work here .... i can't help the feeling that the KH would sound best with a low order x-over, low to mid... but then there's that delay problem ..... a low order, low freq. x-over, that's what most mid drivers don't want at the KH low-mid x-over freq..... now that i have some listening hours on mine, i'm torn ..... i can tell i want them to go to the mid driver @300, or so, Hz..... that's due to the bass horn... maybe ... a 4 way KH is what's needed, can't help but think about the SpeakerLab, with the direct radiator Mid driver... but, most speakers that i prefer are 2 way, and crossover 800 - 1200 Hz... and, i'm not pro .Active, or pro ..Passive, either my JBL 4430's sound Much better with thier passive i'm not a fan of high order x-overs either, with the huge losses incurred in such filters such as in the JBL L-7 4-way system ... maybe the Lowther guy's are onto something.....[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 "...but since you're getting this stupid little cocky additude going here..." You're projecting. Go back and read my question about the cap. I said I understood that the cap was there to protect the driver. My question was about how it impacted the roll-off while working in conjunction with the active. You responded by telling me where the amp is, which didn't help me any. I think you were keying on my comment about the cap being between the driver "and the active behind it", and probably thought I was confused about where the amp was sitting -- which is kind of funny actually. "I mean, what the heck is so hard to understand about that 51uF cap being there?!?! It's NOT rocket science!..." No, understanding what the cap is for isn't rocket science, but that's not what I asked. The answer to my question will require more than condescending BS. "nothing but wire between the amp and the driver" - Meaning before the CAP was inserted, NOT after. DUH! Nice. Yeah, that was my point. I knew that, I just wasn't sure if you did -- go back and read what you wrote. "Lay off the beer..." I don't drink, but I'm considering it. "It's making you too moody and incoherent." You're projecting again. You don't take any kind of criticism well. There is a difference between slamming someone and constructive criticism. I wasn't slamming you. I asked a valid question, and offered up some comments which were meant to help. No, passing everything through a big Solen doesn't sound like a good thing to me -- but that's my opinion, and I have a right to it. And, no -- my quick and dirty attempt at triamping didn't turn out so well. However, it was set up correctly, and the fact that I thought it sounded mediocre at best doesn't invalidate my opinion about the experience. What I said about it had nothing to do with what you're hearing, it had to with what I heard. I'll tackle it again later in the year when I have more money and can buy something new. At any rate, I don't think I said anything deserving of this kind of disrespect from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Found my answer. I won't bother pointing out the obvious since I'm probably just going to be raked over the coals for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Duke -- well, the Klipschorn is definitely a pita. I've pondered the four-way thing a few times, but after I cost everything out to do it the way I want -- the price starts creeping up into what it would cost if I just unloaded them and bought Jubilees. The 2470/Trachorn combination sounds really good, and it's a pretty significant improvement over the stock setup. 4dB down at the transition point stinks, but it is only 4dB, and if you have to be down somewhere with the Klipschorn -- it's not a bad place to have it. Male voices actually sound more natural, and kick drums loose their boomy quality -- and yeah, first order really is almost a necessity here. Something I've been doing over the last couple of months is simply running the bass bin full out with no coil. A fair change in signature, but I don't know what it bought me in the 450Hz region because I haven't measured it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 you should try to borrow some Altec 19's .... just for the perspective the 2-way / reflex box will give you ... not better, just different, in a nice way for home use .....[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 "...but since you're getting this stupid little cocky additude going here..." You're projecting. Go back and read my question about the cap. I said I understood that the cap was there to protect the driver. My question was about how it impacted the roll-off while working in conjunction with the active. You responded by telling me where the amp is, which didn't help me any. I think you were keying on my comment about the cap being between the driver "and the active behind it", and probably thought I was confused about where the amp was sitting -- which is kind of funny actually. "I mean, what the heck is so hard to understand about that 51uF cap being there?!?! It's NOT rocket science!..." No, understanding what the cap is for isn't rocket science, but that's not what I asked. The answer to my question will require more than condescending BS. "nothing but wire between the amp and the driver" - Meaning before the CAP was inserted, NOT after. DUH! Nice. Yeah, that was my point. I knew that, I just wasn't sure if you did -- go back and read what you wrote. "Lay off the beer..." I don't drink, but I'm considering it. "It's making you too moody and incoherent." You're projecting again. You don't take any kind of criticism well. There is a difference between slamming someone and constructive criticism. I wasn't slamming you. I asked a valid question, and offered up some comments which were meant to help. No, passing everything through a big Solen doesn't sound like a good thing to me -- but that's my opinion, and I have a right to it. And, no -- my quick and dirty attempt at triamping didn't turn out so well. However, it was set up correctly, and the fact that I thought it sounded mediocre at best doesn't invalidate my opinion about the experience. What I said about it had nothing to do with what you're hearing, it had to with what I heard. I'll tackle it again later in the year when I have more money and can buy something new. At any rate, I don't think I said anything deserving of this kind of disrespect from you. No, I'm not "projecting" anything. I'm just sick and tired of taking the time of writing a post with all of the information, then have someone come by a few posts later asking questions that were already answered in the first post. Just like with someone else in this very thread. I had already stated what crossover freq I settled on. Two posts later, he comes on here asking where I set the crossover freq. It seems that no one on here reads everything. They just skip to the end, throw something of their own in, and have me end up repeating myself again and again. It gets very old very quickly. The END. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 you should try to borrow some Altec 19's .... just for the perspective the 2-way / reflex box will give you ... not better, just different, in a nice way for home use .....[] hmmm, this could be the start of something....corn-altec's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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