SynergySystem Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Lately ive become very intrested in vinyl. And i have alot of questions that have made me rethink not only CDs but my listening equipment as a whole. First off, ive heard that vinyl while maybe not technically superior, it is emotionally. Ive heard it said that since vinyl is not digitally compressed it has a fuller warmer sound. That cd is colder and more exacting. Im unsure though, i did have a turntable when i was a teenager but had poor quality speakers(whose grilles werent even removable). I did like the sound of the turntable though. A few questions on vinyl first. 1)Is there a diffrence in sound quality between a 12" vinyl or 7" vinyl, or just size? 2)What diffrence does the speed of the LP make(you know 33 rpm etc)? 3)Do you feel you need tubes to fully take advantage of the Vinyl sound? 4) What are some pros and cons of switching to vinyl? Thanks for your time and patience [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM135 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 You will get lots of advice here on vinyl and I'll defer to the experts since I have not added a vinyl set-up to my system. For me the "cons" of going vinyl were starting a collection from scrath and the cost of a good TT. What I can tell you is that going to tubes, even with CDs, was a monumental improvement over a solid state amp. The sound is less fatiguing, very warm, and the next best thing to vinyl. Klipsch marry up nicely with tube amps since the speakers are efficient enough to be easily powered by low wattage tube gear--one of the reasons tubes are so popular with Klipsh fans, especially with the Heritage line. You may find that a nice tube amplifier will be such an improvement over what you are used to, that you may not want to go further. Some CD recordings are also better than others. HDCD, SACD, etc., teamed with a better, capable CD player also makes a significant difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 I recently got a tube amp, a used Dynaco, not a ton of money, bought it from a forum member. The difference in sound that it made was incredible. Klipsch speakers just love horns. Unfortunately, my preamp does not have a phono preamp with it. I am going to have to get one to hook up my TT with my tubes. I bet they will sound even better then. If you live in an area where there are other forum members, you might could bribe one of them to let you borrow for a few days a tube amp and plug it into your system. Or they could possibly let you hear their tube and TT set up. But, beware: I heard my Klipschhorns for the first time with tubes in Hope. I have now started on a rather expensive renovation of gear after hearing the difference. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynergySystem Posted August 28, 2006 Author Share Posted August 28, 2006 Thank you for your input guys []. I currently have a synergy setup(5.1) im using for hometheater. Im considering moving it into the bedroom and starting a pure 2 channel setup in my living room. I really want to get a pair of Klipschorns(who doesnt?) for my living room. And i was thinking to get the most of the horns id have to upgrade to tubes. It sounds like tubes make a huge diffrence. The only ones ive priced though were terribly expensive like 2,000-3,000 just for the amp. Is that the normal going rate for tube amps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Lately ive become very intrested in vinyl. And i have alot of questions that have made me rethink not only CDs but my listening equipment as a whole. First off, ive heard that vinyl while maybe not technically superior, it is emotionally. What!? Vinyl is absolutely technically superior to CD, but you need good equipment to acheive and enjoy it as such. Ive heard it said that since vinyl is not digitally compressed it has a fuller warmer sound. Actually, there is compression in vinyl, but lately, the compression in CD has hit the roof. Both formats offer instances of low and high compression. That cd is colder and more exacting. Im unsure though, i did have a turntable when i was a teenager but had poor quality speakers(whose grilles werent even removable). I did like the sound of the turntable though. A few questions on vinyl first. 1)Is there a diffrence in sound quality between a 12" vinyl or 7" vinyl, or just size? I only have 331/3 12 inch, but I think the potential quality is similar. Although, the best quality for a particular record is probably going to be on the outer grooves where the relative speed of the vinyl to the stylus is greatest - in that sense, the bigger 12" may have more of the highest quality sound. 2)What diffrence does the speed of the LP make(you know 33 rpm etc)? From a technical point of view, the faster the better. Realistically, most of what you find is standardized at 331/3. Different labels (manufacturers) use varying degrees of attention to quality of vinyl and recording, pressing, and packaging. 3)Do you feel you need tubes to fully take advantage of the Vinyl sound? Actually a very good question. Much of the vinyl era overlaps with the use of tubes,so it is not too crazy to think that the attributes of vinyl overall were established when tubes ruled, and so might sound most like they were supposed to with that kind of equipment. This is not certain though, as tubes themselves were developed for amplification long before full range systems came about. Happily, tubes, and old horn speakers, that were developed back before full range recording and sources came about continue to sound fantastic with the full range sources. 4) What are some pros and cons of switching to vinyl? If you are seeking the best possible sound, no. Many that grew up with CDs find it strange that you have to place the record, clean the record and stylus, then do it again when you get up to flip the record. Also, the convenience of playing individual tracks is lost with records. In the old days, we never considered playing a single track - we listened to the whole side. Depending on your choise of music, this can be a little bit of a chore, but most who really love records learn to enjoy the ritual of putting the disk on the table, cleaning it, and starting it up without a remote. Thanks for your time and patience [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 3)Do you feel you need tubes to fully take advantage of the Vinyl sound? To MY ears, with MY system, and in MY humble opinion, LP's made a bigger difference than a tube amp in warmth, dynamics, and overall enjoyment when compared to CD. My baseline for this comparison is a NAD C542 HDCD player, with both HDCD and regular recording, both good and bad recordings. Table is a Pro-Ject Debut. I am considering a tube CD player or possible a tube pre down the road, but I am currently 100% satisfied with my gear. Welcome to the forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Records are amazing - equivalent to 40-bit at the molecular level. It will be a very long time before CDs get there. Records also have signal above the 22KHz limit of CDs. Many beleive that these sounds you don't hear positively influence those you do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM135 Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 I am using a custom rebuilt Scott 299A integrated amp. All told I have about $600 invested in this little gem. There are a number of Scott users on the forum, all whom I believe are happy with their systems. This amp does have a phone stage but not the type most would prefer here. There are a number of good offerings from Jolida and Antique Sound Labs for around/under $1,000 too. Not sure what your budget is like, but it you are going to invest in KHorns, may as well get the best amp you can. The hobby can become consuming and get very expensive. For under $1500 I think a person could get a set of Forte/Quartet/Chorus, decent tube amp, and TT if you are patient and shop around. Such a system may be hard to beat for the money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 I don't know Mike, I had a Scott 299 for over 4 years and I thought the phono stage was outstanding in it. Granted, it will not play low output moving coil cartridges, but could handle everything else. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Lately ive become very intrested in vinyl. And i have alot of questions that have made me rethink not only CDs but my listening equipment as a whole. First off, ive heard that vinyl while maybe not technically superior, it is emotionally. Ive heard it said that since vinyl is not digitally compressed it has a fuller warmer sound. That cd is colder and more exacting. Im unsure though, i did have a turntable when i was a teenager but had poor quality speakers(whose grilles werent even removable). I did like the sound of the turntable though. A few questions on vinyl first. 1)Is there a diffrence in sound quality between a 12" vinyl or 7" vinyl, or just size? 2)What diffrence does the speed of the LP make(you know 33 rpm etc)? 3)Do you feel you need tubes to fully take advantage of the Vinyl sound? 4) What are some pros and cons of switching to vinyl? Thanks for your time and patience [] Have you heard vinyl play back lately? I would suggest you check out a listening room with an analog front end before you decide whether you would enjoy it more than CDs. It would be best for you to decide yourself than making a decision base on what you heard people have said. I know of folks that has 10k-15k analog front end, and they still think their CDs sounds better. This really puzzles me. Good luck on your quest. Very exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM135 Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 What type of turntable set-up did you have with your Scott? Would be curious to give my phono stage a try. Mike M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 The phono stage on my 299d was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 What type of turntable set-up did you have with your Scott? Would be curious to give my phono stage a try. Mike M Mike, I had a very modest Dual CS-5000 w/Shure V15V-MR, and it sounded very good. Colin will attest to that. Like you, Craig did alot of work to mine. As for tubes, the only upgrades were the Telefunken 12AX7's. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 "I know of folks that has 10k-15k analog front end, and they still think their CDs sounds better. This really puzzles me." That one puzzles me too. I never came across it. Most of the people I know who have invested anything over about $2000 in their TT prefer the result over CD. Of course it is not impossible that someone might actually prefer the sound of CD. One wonders, however, why they would spent such sums on vinyl to prove that fact? Or did they spend even more on the CD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Records are amazing - equivalent to 40-bit at the molecular level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Indeed, Parrot. This tubes thing deserves its own thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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