Need help with Khorn clones!!!

[Dylanl]

Dylani,

Waves, what waves? If a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound? You do not hear the back chamber. The stuffing changes the characteristics of the backchamber thereby changing the operating characteristics of the woofer, thereby changing what you hear from the horn. Stuffing will change different woofers/speakers differently. My AR speakers need it, my khorns do not.

Oh, yes you do! I beg to differ! The reflections come back through the cone out of phase. have you EVER measured this? This creates what I can only call "muddiness".

Only Klipsch doesn't use any absorptive material in the horn's back chamber, even when there are parallel walls like the LS, Belle and Jub. caused it doesn't needed and we measured it.....if it needs, we put it in.

I would agree, however, that due to the Khorn having no parallel surfaces in the back chamber, that it suffers from less reflectivity problems than the others, but I also think that it can have less "muddiness" if reflections are suppressed, but that is my opinion only.

Not really a good thing IMO. This does not mean that you need to add so much material that it alters the response of the driver, only to supress the interference from internal back chamber reflections and standing waves.

DM

roy delgado

So, what is your point since you included my name into your last post. Are you agreeing with me or debating?

[D-MAN]

That's why its called a KLONE, and not a Klipsch. A little too fast on the trigger, Roy!

I do have my facts straight. That's why I am questioning your post: Are we not in agreement?!

DM

[bodcaw boy]

That's why its called a KLONE, and not a Klipsch. A little too fast on the trigger, Roy!

I do have my facts straight. That's why I am questioning your post: Are we not in agreement?!

DM

no i think about my response alot; then i get bored.

if you make a clone khorn lf horn, i don't care what driver you put in it. if you buy a khorn lf cabinet and change the driver, i could care less. but i always thought (and maybe silly me for thinking this) if you are going to build a clone of something, it may be cause you are trying to get what you can't afford and that maybe, just maybe, you may want to put the driver that the company used to try to get the sound of the original you just cloned. i don't know; just call me crazy.

roy delgado

[bodcaw boy]

Dylani,

Waves, what waves? If a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound? You do not hear the back chamber. The stuffing changes the characteristics of the backchamber thereby changing the operating characteristics of the woofer, thereby changing what you hear from the horn. Stuffing will change different woofers/speakers differently. My AR speakers need it, my khorns do not.

Oh, yes you do! I beg to differ! The reflections come back through the cone out of phase. have you EVER measured this? This creates what I can only call "muddiness".

Only Klipsch doesn't use any absorptive material in the horn's back chamber, even when there are parallel walls like the LS, Belle and Jub. caused it doesn't needed and we measured it.....if it needs, we put it in.

I would agree, however, that due to the Khorn having no parallel surfaces in the back chamber, that it suffers from less reflectivity problems than the others, but I also think that it can have less "muddiness" if reflections are suppressed, but that is my opinion only.

Not really a good thing IMO. This does not mean that you need to add so much material that it alters the response of the driver, only to supress the interference from internal back chamber reflections and standing waves.

DM

roy delgado

So, what is your point since you included my name into your last post. Are you agreeing with me or debating?

neither, cause it doesn't matter to me what you do![] (nice cabs by the way)

i was merely stating for mr patent-dman, that we looked at putting foam in there and found that we did not have to. that's all.

roy delgado

[Dylanl]

Roy this is only my second time addressing you so out with being cordial you seem to like being direct. Even though it doesn't matter to you what I do answer me this. Did you stuff or wrap the K33 with insulation and what were your readings?

Good Day

[TRiv]

Hi all, since this thread is about modified Klones, would like to get any thoughts on a bass bin mod. Considering only the bass bin itself is a clone ( mid horn is Altec 203B) and speaker components are Klipsch,K33E,K55V,K77, BEC typeA crossover, would like to know if the the Khorn (for K33) driver back chamber size was/is a compromise volume due to available space? and if so, is there a prefered back volume (more than the 3 cubic ft as is), and if that volume could be added (+ 3-5 cubic feet?), would there be any performance advantage? would this also require the change of slot size?

This volume would be added at the front panel of the bin by adding and extending forward (6-8 inches)to get desired cubic feet / inches, and would be conected to the back chamber with slots cut by both sides of the bin at the front corners where the original design used that extra bit of corner space for volume. The hope is to optimize the performance of the K33E (if not already there) with the prefered back chamber volume, and with the added volume (structure)provide a more tapered output at inner sides of the horn mouth opposed to just dropping off sharply, also, the 203B horns won't have to hang out the back so much (have to use false walls to accomodated).

[bodcaw boy]

Roy this is only my second time addressing you so out with being cordial you seem to like being direct. Even though it doesn't matter to you what I do answer me this. Did you stuff or wrap the K33 with insulation and what were your readings?

Good Day

i don't mean to come off as direct; i took your cue and answered your question. so using the direct method, a 33 in a khorn did not need foam, a 33 in a ls scala did not need foam, a 33 in a cornwall did.

buenos dias

roy delgado

[Deang]

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[D-MAN]

That's why its called a KLONE, and not a Klipsch. A little too fast on the trigger, Roy!

I do have my facts straight. That's why I am questioning your post: Are we not in agreement?!

DM

no i think about my response alot; then i get bored.

if you make a clone khorn lf horn, i don't care what driver you put in it. if you buy a khorn lf cabinet and change the driver, i could care less. but i always thought (and maybe silly me for thinking this) if you are going to build a clone of something, it may be cause you are trying to get what you can't afford and that maybe, just maybe, you may want to put the driver that the company used to try to get the sound of the original you just cloned. i don't know; just call me crazy.

roy delgado

Crazy like a fox...

I think that the enclosure is only half of what matters, the network/driver setup is the other 50%. Ample rope to hang oneself!

DM

[Dylanl]

Well I am going to try the insulation anyway. My only problem is that I have nothing to measure with other than my ears. They play ticks on me especially when I know there was a change made.

I do have an SPL meter but I dout that would help in this situation.

Question: How could one test this proceedure and what test equipment would be needed. Obviously a mic. but what else?

[Horatio]

Suggest that you also look at the crossover aspects- I have found when biamping and triamping horns, the crossover slopes are steep, and this works fine on the low-end cutoff for a driver (say, midrange or tweeter), but, what you want in the bass section, is to really allow that woofer to contribute to higher frequencies. This is one of the reasons why the Klipsch Type A works so well- it is a gentle slope, but combines with the steep roll-offs of the midrange and tweeter (at the low end of these drivers) well, while allowing the woofer to go higher, relatively speaking. Most active crossovers that set the low/mid cutoff, will roll the woofer off at the same frequency and rate as it rolls the midrange in. If your woofer's response is on the decline in this region (which is most definitely is), you really want to use a different slope, or a higher frequency for the woofer, as opposed to that being used to cross in the mid. Of course, you could equalize in this region, also, and use the crossover directly set.

Try this: drive one side on your crossover, and feed the same channel to the other side (e.g., drive both channels of the crossover input with the Left channel, for example). Then, take the low frequency output of the second channel, and drive your woofer with this. That way, you can independently set your woofer crossover frequency. I think you will find the performance of your bass horn will improve as you raise the crossover frequency beyond your original setting (which is where your mid range is coming in).

Another way to try this is to simply put the 2.5 Mh inductor on the woofer (I can't recall- is your woofer 8 ohms or 4? The 4 ohm woofer uses the 2.5 Mh in the Type-A, I think), on a full range signal sent to your bass amp (e.g., T off the input to the active crossover and drive your bass amp this way, and use the inductor as a passive crossover for the bass horn), and use the active crossover to handle the mid/tweeter.

Finally: I have a set of Speakerlab-built Khorns, and I never got these to sound right until I loaded them with K33E's and put a Type-A crossover in. I tried EV15's, along the way, too, but nothing sounded as good as the K33E in there.

Have fun!