Minneapolis Meeting ***Feb 24/25*** You're All Invited

[DrWho]

So how did it go?

[Strabo]

So how did it go?

It was a great time. Nice to meet Craig. He's a great guy. We might have to go fishing sometime.

Dan and I have known each other for a long time (he's a good guy too) []. Only three of us showed up due to the weather. Might have to plan the next one during warmer days.

As you can tell by the other posts, after shoveling in the morning, hauling equipment out then in, then out, then back in again, then more shoveling after getting home, I was too tired to even sit at the computer. For me, it was a long day that started around 4:30am.

Dan and I arrived at the same time, probably close to 9:30. Took a couple hours to set up a couple systems then spun some vinyl, and CDs on (in order or size) Heresys, KG4s, and KLF-20s.

I better get back to work now but more to follow. Craig and I took some pictures. I'll try to get some posted in the next couple of days.

[Champagne taste beer budget]

Finally getting a chance to sit in front of a computer and type for a minute, got home last night around 7, then daughters homework and her bedtime, then my wife tied up the computer doing shop books, didn't think lunch was ever going to get here today.

Wuzzer, Shurkey and hammertop, I understand, when we drove down Sat afternoon it was 40-45 mph a good part of the way, poor visiblity and the occasional knucklehead that would blow by going 70 in his big tired pickup. We all waved nicely as we drove by the one that we saw in the ditch 10 miles later. [:'(] Missed meeting you, maybe at the next one.

So yeah, I ended up using my daughters portable DVD player for a source as I waited for Strabo (Kyhl) and cleandan (Dan) to get there. It worked surprising well actually. Dan and Kyle showed a bit after 9 and we got their stuff carted in, they brought so much stuff some of it never even got set up! As I recall Dan brought KLF 20's and Heresys', a Music Hall turntable, McIntosh c32 Pre and 2035(?) power amp, and Pioneer Elite CD player. Kyhl brought a Denon pre that never saw the table, a Music Hall turntable and a tube amp, I believe it was a VAC but sure he'll set me straight if it wasn't. We were able to get most everything run through the Mac pre so it was just a couple knobs/buttons to change to switch sources or amp/speaker sets. Dan was a little flustered by a slight (barely noticable with the gain down) hum that he couldn't find, but it really didn't effect listening. (Hopefully that's straightened out once everything is back home) We ended up using a couple power strips, the wiring behind the table looked just like that pictuyre of how NOT do run your wiring at home, but with so much moving and switching stuff it worked for what it was.

The listening was great. The room was kinda bright, but we dealt with it. A good amount of time was spent playing with imaging, seems all the speakers could do a good job but exact placement and source were critical. I was happy that my KG4s' seemed to hold their own, though each speaker had it's own sound. We played every style music out there, from Benny Goodman to Beethovan to The Flaming Lips. It was interesting to hear the same track coming through the different amps and speakers after a short knob twist, made it easier to compare than if you had to make all new connections. I'm not sure there was really a clear favorite in my opinion on anything, each speaker, amp and source all had it's own strong points. Kyhl didn't feel his tube setup matched very well with what was there, and being my first exposure to tubes, I'm not going to second guess him. I did prefer the turntable to the CD player on the cuts off of DSOTM. We did one cut, Time, back to back on the cd then the table and I felt I picked up some things I hadn't heard on the CD. Unbeknownst to me, but according to Kyhl, my old copy of DSOTM is the one to have, some pressing numbers on the inside edge or some such thing. I believe he had a Mobile Fidelity album.

In all, I'm glad to have had the exposure to some equipment I wouldn't hear otherwise but have heard of. It was great to hear some new music, groups or individuals I never knew existed. (What was the name of that disc by Lightning someone?) Best part was simply getting to meet Kyhl and Dan, a couple really nice guys that were open to questions and quick with answers, had nice equipment that they were willing to schlep through the worst snowstorm in Minneapolis in 8 years, and made me feel like I wasn't a dork/nerd/geek to just sit in the middle of the room, right in the sweet spot, moving my head an inch at a time to shift the singers on stage postition, toe tapping, fingers strumming, and just listening to the music for the sake of the music.

Thanks guys, had a great time, looking forward to doing it again in better weather.

[DoubleJ]

Sounds like I missed a good time.

I got as far as shoveling my car out and preceded to get stuck on flat ground and the city didn't plow the roads until 2:00pm.

Sure would have liked to hear that Music Hall TT for I just purchased a MH 2.1 from Mark. I'll be setting it up tonight now that some time has been freed up.

JJ

Let me know where/who to send some money for the room rental. I won't take no for an answer!!!

[cleandan]

Craig, like I said to you on Sunday, I appreciate the effort you gave in putting the gathering together. The first step in any successful get together is to name a place and time and you did that well. The hotel was nice, clean, and very quiet. I did not see anyone outside our group except for a few employees. The room was a bit bright, and the tables were not the most stable thing but this was the height of out problems so we had a very good situation indeed. I wish you had brought some sort of pre for your nice Pereaux amp. That thing had some legs and I would have liked to try them...time just got away from me and then we were done and I am sorry we did not simply set up, at least once, using just your amp and my pre and nothing else. I found you to be an enjoyable guy who is willing to play and listen and one who is not driven by brand/label/image snobbery, just good sound and fun music...and no we do not think you are a geek. At least that is the story we are sticking to when face to face. You got my set up pretty much right on. I brought a McIntosh C32 pre, MC2125 amp, Music Hall MMF-7 turn table, Pioneer Elite DV-47 universal player, a pair of Heresy II's, a pair of KLF-20's, and way way way too much stuff to listen to. I think I had 20 LP's and maybe 40-50 CD's, and Kyhl had an equal amount as well. Yes, you can rest easy knowing your "meager" KG-4's did a nice job playing what we threw at them. We should have let em rip when we played "Kiss Off" by the Violent Femmes at around 95db instead of the KLF-20's. Don't worry folks, that was our one venture into the "loud" arena. Everything else was played at regular listening levels. We did take, in my opinion anyway, much too long fooling around with the speaker placement and gear set up...and I was the biggest culprit of used time, sorry about that. Finding the sweet spot in that room was very difficult. Next time we will set up and get to listening sooner. I have been thinking about the buzz in my amp and have a few guesses. The room directly behind our gear set up is a utility room and there were a few things running that never shut off. The outlet on that wall (there were very few outlets) may have been on the same circuit and thus there was the hum. Also, all the lights were on a variable rheostat and the variable, along with compact flourscent lights can often make high RF noist. The hum was at very high gain levels so I was probably being overly critical. Eventhough the snow made things more difficult I am happy that I attended. I am happy to have met you Craig and I would certainly do this again if I am able. Some things I learned for next time. Bring longer interconnects, bring an extension cord, bring an extra pre amp if one is available, bring a sub, come earlier so there is more time to listen, set up and then get to listening rather than play set up and tweak for ever. I also learned how well my sedan pulls a trailer in crappy weather. Getting out of my neighborhood was not certain for a while but luckily I am good at driving sideways. Again, it was a good time and I am glad I made the trip. Thanks again.

There is one thing I also learned and it has more to do with my daughter than the gathering. Moving all this gear allowed me to clean in places otherwise left alone. While moving both my KSW-200's I heard a clunking noise inside. At first I thought I broke something but that only lasted about two seconds. I then immediatly though, what did my daughter put in the enclosure port. So, I flipped the subs and removed the drivers to see what was rolling around in them. One sub had two of my hand exercisers (the spring things you squeeze) in it and the other sub had a long lost sippy cup...complete with now rotted and science experiment looking goo/liquid inside. I thought, for a brief second, that I should clean the cup with something strong but then came back to reality and decided to simply toss the whole thing...completely unopened. The thought of opening this to clean it came with the thought of what the stuff inside must smell like and I chose to let imagination rule rather than proof.

[Strabo]

Nice summary guys.

Here's a little more on my experience.

Craig is being modest. That Pereaux amp is something special. I wish we would have listened to it more. That was part of the reason I volunteered to pull the VAC after a few songs. It was definitely the lesser of the three amps there. Given the shortage of time I figured why continue when there were better choices.

"I wish" is probably my biggest take away from the day. Time wasn't on our side and "I wish" we could have tried a lot of things.

The KG4's were the biggest surprise to me. IMO, the high frequencies were tamer than the Heresys, and the mids were great. What surprised me was how well they handled echo on vocals. It was a very natural and believable sound. I would have liked to play with that more. I have a feeling that they might have been the best at it. The Heresys seemed to go lower though. It was a tough call between the two. Both very good at what they did, but they did it slightly different.

I'd rate the KG4 as sneaky good. A great sleeper in the Klipsch lineup.

The Lighting guy was Lightning Hopkins Going Away, a reissue from the Analog Productions label. We only heard the faster tracks. That's one of my favorite blues disks. He really lets loose with some boogie.

I also would have liked to do two more cuts of PF's Time. I noted more sibilance in the CD versus the LP. It would have been interesting to try it in the Denon and versus the 30th anniv SACD or the Mofi CD (yes, we had 4 copies of DSOTM in 4 different masterings available yesterday). I'll see if I can find more info on that disc for you Craig. Btw, the LP was the 30th Anniv reissue. IMO that is the best vinyl pressing so I didn't bother bringing any others. I thought it beat the CD handily, but I may be biased since it was my TT and LP. []

The hotel was nice. The food was good, price was great for a meeting room. They were nice enough to give us the code for the back service door which was right next to our room, so we didn't have to truck all around the hotel. My biggest problem was the room had bad echo which was noticeable when I first walked in and no music was playing. I don't have much experience with hotel meeting rooms but I expected it to have better acoustics. You would think they would want some absorption to keep the sound in. They could have been designed to be sound sealed which made them echo bad. Who knows.

Things I learned for next time:
Bring long interconnects.
Bring long pre-made speaker wire with banana plugs for quick changes
Bring extension cords and power strips.
I might even bring some acoustic panels next time.
Plan to stay the night so we can have a few beers and not be so pressed for time.

Lastly, my amp issue has been bothering me all day. What I used to think was a problem with my speakers now looks to be an amp issue. Some tube rolling may be in order soon. Or, I might have to see CraigNos about the Smilin amps he and Steve are concocting. Craig if you're reading this, four mono's are about the same price to build as two right? []

Oops, the boss is home. Better go.

[meagain]

KG4 <--- underrated here for some reason IMO. Would take them over Heresy any day. Boom boom!

[Champagne taste beer budget]

I agree, I thought of a few things to do different as I wound my way back North, my wife and daughter both asleep as I struggled valiantly to keep the family truckster on the straight and narrow. Anyone out there considering a get together of this sort should notice the common threads that run through all the participants replies.

1) Get there early. Dan and Kyhl got there shortly after 9, but with getting their stuff into the room, unpacking it, (which not a small thing since they brought everything in the factory boxes and torn down about as far as they'd go), and deciding where to put components so that everything could get connected easily, it was almost 11 before we started playing stuff intently. There was always something on, not being listened to that critically.

2) Set up and listen. Get one system up and running right, hopefully with an easy switch to another source or output so you can switch quickly and compare notes while set up continues. We pretty much did that, but without a plan it seemed we'd get one thing set up, then decide it should be somewhere else due to either vibration or interconnect problems and start over. It wasn't a real problem, but for future reference, get er done and get er right fast.

3) Audition equipment, not songs. I will take nothing away from the day we had, but in hind sight, we should have been smarter. It's surprising how fast the time goes by. As I said earlier, I'm happy I got the exposure to performers I would have not heard otherwise, but...If I were to set this up again, I'd probably want to hear short snippets of the same song on either a different recording, different source, different amp, or different speakers. I realize that's a tough request, but It seemed too often we would be going to switch a speaker/amp combo and at the same time it switched over to a different song that may or may not have been recorded by the same folks at the same place at the same time and it gave you pause to if the change in sound was due to the recording or the switch of amp/speakers. It really is a tough call, if you switch performers often, you hear things you might not know, but if you play the same stuff over and over you could compare the intrinsic sounds of each piece of equipment.

4) Bring 10 ft interconnects. Bring lots of em. Bring 20's if ya got em.

5) Make it two days. We had around 6 hours and were just getting into the meat of stuff when we had to tear it down. If there were more than three people bringing equipment, I don't see how you could get through 1/2 of it in the first day, especially if you want to compare tracks on different sources or outputs or speakers. Don't short yourself time. It will pass blazingly fast.

6) Do different SP levels. I took a few arbitrary measurements, we were usually running 80-86 db. We ran a couple songs up to 90-92, but that was the exception. I often listen at that level so considered it normal, Kyhl and Dan listen to a lower level on average from what they said, I certainly didn't want to hurt anyones ears, but mine could have tolerated another click or two. (Maybe that's why I didn't pick up the highs as well as they did?) [:S]

7) Get full names and phone numbers. I got the first names, but no contact numbers. I wish I had em now. PM me.

8) Enjoy every second of it. It was as much a thrill to me to watch and learn as these guys set up their turntables as it was to see the tubes coming out of the styrofoam and into sockets. To worry about if the left side of said speaker is actually pointed to the middle of your face or over your right shoulder. Swap out "The Sweet Spot Chair" with the other guys and stand slightly behind it. Every part of the meeting is important, you just need to find the importance of it. I'd recommend it to anyone that can get a few guys together. Gals would look better, I'd recommend that too.

9) DANG!!! I almost forgot!!! Bring supports. The tables we had were standard fare for a hotel reception room, the fold up, metal, drop leg 8 x 2.5 table. They suck. I ended up going down into the employees only section and pulling out a piece of moveable flooring to set up a turntable on, it worked fine, but would be nice to have it off the floor. Dan had a stand that saved the day for all the other connections

I'll post more as I think of it.

[DrWho]

lol, you guys are crazy []

For what it's worth - sometimes you gotta pick what kind of listening session you'll be doing. I personally have way more fun when it revolves around the music instead of the equipment. The absolute best is when you start off listening to the equipment and then get "side-tracked" by the music. I think my first visit to Colter's place started out as a comparison between Chorus II and Cornwall and turned into 4 hours of listening to music.

Afterall, the hobby is about enjoying music...and our systems are just a means of achieving that goal. So no need to be ashamed of enjoying some tunes - in fact, if anything that speaks volumes of credibility. I would much sooner trust the opinion of someone that listens to music before some self-proclaimed audiophile geek that can hear how long the background singer's hair was...[]

[Strabo]

A snow day sent me home early this afternoon so I had some time to get extra things done. We are getting another 15-20 inches of snow today and tomorrow, on top of the 12 inches last weekend. [:'(]

Finally got my system back together, boxes put away, and loaded some pictures. Another "I wish". Wish I would have taken more pictures.

Behind the sweet spot (behind Craig).

Speakers from out to in are KLF-20's, KG-4's, Heresy's (with impromptu risers).

[Strabo]

I closer picture of the equipment, and Dan hiding behind speakers changing CDs.

Edit: looks like The 5, 6, 7, 8's jewel case in his hand. [] Dan played both the original version of Woo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo and the version from the Vonage commercial.

This is it for my usable pictures, hopefully Craig has a few good ones.