DrWho Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Depends on the relationship between the input and output device and how the signal is converted to balanced. Sometimes that can be the case, which is probably going to be the reason it sounds better to many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Well, I've got to play with this for about 2 hours now, in total. I'm really very glad that I upgraded to separates. For a while, I thought about going with a Denon receiver but I'm so glad that I went with Rotel. So anyway, as is with all new equipment, I saw a few surprises and a few quirks. First the quirks: After initially hooking everything together, I wanted to only run the component out to our display. Its a commercial 1080p display so its very barren when it comes to inputs, only DVI and component. So since the Rotel can convert s-video and composite to component, I only hooked that up. At first the signal jittered as it came on, but then every so often, the video would blank out for about 1 second, and the audio would continue uninterrupted. While it may have been that it was an issue with TNT, i could swear i saw it on different channels as well (but i wasnt really paying attention on the first day). Another quirk was that, I naturally figured, without reading the manual, that i couldnt access the OSD via component, so I would have to use the video out via s-video or composite. So I hooked up an old camcorder to the svideo jack and used that to configure the OSD. While I was doing that, the screen would keep flickering and the video would stutter and just go bizerk. Again this was all stuff that happened on the first day. Then, on Sunday, i finally opened the manual (i know i have no patience with reading the instructions), I realized that I could configure the video if i set it to 'progressive' mode. I did that and disabled the OSD screens, since it wouldnt work on component anyway, and since then there has been no flickering or any other issues i saw on the first day. I was a bit worried on the first day, wondering if pre-amp pro needed to be exchanged, but I'm just hoping it was me who did somethign wrong, or the channel i was watching and not the unit itself. And now for the surprise: I read the Rotel brochure that the salesman had given to me, which stated that the now discontinued 380wpc amp they sell had two sets of outputs for 'easy biwiring'. well, they dont sell that anymore, and I think thats a bit overkill for the klipsch anyway, so I went with the RB-1080, and lo and behold, it also has 2 sets of connectors per channel! The strange thing is, that there was an addendum to the manual that shipped with my unit, but it made no mention of the two connectors. Even their website hasnt updated their picture of the back of the unit. So, i'm almost afraid to assume that this is for bi-wiring and didnt connect it. I figure I'll ask here and see what you all think before I do anything. If they did include it for this purpose, then thats a great welcome feature indeed. I also wanted to ask the owners here what mode do you use just to listen to stereo, ie from a CD? It seems like I get the best bass response if i use the Dolby PLII M/C/3 stereo modes. I dont get the same bass extention in stereo mode that i do in those modes, even while i have access to the full contour controls. I mean I guess, as long as I like the sound thats all that should matter right, but I'm wondering if i'm missing any audible spectrum by listening in the Dolby modes vs straight 2 channel stereo/bypass. In the setup, i've set it so that the RF83s are set to large, and disabled all other speakers (i;ve selected no subwoofer). I dont know what to set for the crossover for the main speakers, so its set to its default 100hz. I dont know why this would even matter since its not crossing over to a sub anyway. The manual mentions that I should'nt use just any old cable for the unbalanced RCA connections between the pre-amp/pro and the amplifier, i've used the ones that came in the pre-amp pro box.... it sounds fantastic to me, but i'm really upgrading to a whole new level so i want to be able to actualize the potential of the components without breaking the bank on accessories (not a huge monster cable fan). I'm just wondering if you guys went with the cheap stuff or actually use a decent set of cables for your connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Depends on the relationship between the input and output device and how the signal is converted to balanced. Sometimes that can be the case, which is probably going to be the reason it sounds better to many. That was my experience. I switched to balanced cables, it was louder, so I perceive better. [8-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Ou8: Alot here find bluejeanscable work just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsp1068 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Interconnects can make a difference. There are some very good silver ones on the market, for the equivalent of high buck "monster" coppers. The ones in the box, should be left in the box. The binding posts are paralleled of off the channels on the 1080 (can be bi-wired), but, run heavy enough (12-14 gauge), descent speaker cable, and keep the jumpers in place on the speaks. Bi-wiring will gain you nothing sonically, and add xtra cables running to the speaks to trip over. For cd play, they have an analog bypass or pass through, which ignores any processing, and gives true to form music. It is in the set up menu, and you will use the cd-rca inputs versus the digital input. The digital in uses the dac in the 1068, and gives you all of the various controls you refer to, where "bypass" lets the cdp convert to analog, run through the left and right analog in on the 1068, and can give the most straight forward signal. Its a can of worms all together "which dac sounds best" which hopefully will be avoided here, as should a year from now you choose to open it, have a ball. Good to hear that so far so good, just wait till everything becomes acclimated, you will be in for a treat. Congrats and enjoy!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 in the rf83 instructions, it says to take the jumpers OFF the binding posts, if you have choose to biwire. from the content of your response, it seems that you're not at all convinced that bi-wiring does anything except clutter the setup. also, my run length between the speaker and the amp is only 10 feet. in such a short distance, do i really need a 12-14 gauge speaker wire? right now i'm using 16 gauge simply because of the distance but i wouldnt mind upgrading to a higher gauge if its really necessary (spending a few grand on separates tends to focus the mind on priorities [8-|] ). in terms of the DACs, no i'm not going into a debate about which sounds best, thats all semantics. All i'm asking is am i losing audio information by listening to Dolby PLII M/C/3 stereo, when all i have are two speakers... the RF83s, and nothing else. As i said, to me, PLII M sounds better than Bypass, again its probably because I've yet to decide between getting another SVS PB2+ (or whatever they call it now) and the RT12d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 16 guage is fine for a 10 foot run. This chart from JBL indicates that you're good up to 20 feet. As far as bi-wiring is concerned - electrically it's no different than increasing the wire gauge. Are you running the subwoofer all the time with your receiver? I'm not sure how PLxII processes the data when you only have two speakers, but I do know that it treats the subwoofer differently...namely adding about a 6-10dB boost to compensate for the bass roll off of all the speakers depending on what all is set to large and small. But if you're not running a subwoofer then this doesn't make sense, unless it's rerouting bass to the mains. Does the manual cover what it does with each of the modes? Perhaps you might need to give Rotel a call to hear what one of their techs has to say about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsp1068 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 In bypass mode, full bandwidth is sent to both fronts. In any "processed" mode the user is able to select any crossover point they choose (within reason). I have never used a different brand of processor, but Rotel gives enough flexibility to cover about any app you could throw at it. I don't know how the 83's are, but my 7's, after about 1 yr, allmost appeared to pick up an extra octave on the bottom. Break in? I didn't follow any specific procedure, I just started enjoying them, and at about the 12 mos. point they gained some oomph on the bottom, with no other changes made upstream, or in placement. Do you have an spl meter? If nothing else this gives a good starting point, and depending on the other variables (room, preferences, etc....) can get you where you want to be. CD's differ greatly, I have many that have no bottom end, and others, that are bloated, and some that are very well done, with a good balance top to bottom. Just flappin the jibs here this mornin, killin time to meet Mr insurance adjuster to see where we go on our home that experienced a fire 4 weeks ago so....... I am completely tuneless, and am going through withdrawals somethin fierce, so its good to re-live some of this with someone else going through it. Have fun................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted May 2, 2007 Author Share Posted May 2, 2007 well, since I have a lot of 16 gauge wire laying about the house, i guess biwiring it cant hurt. I did that yesterday, and it still sounded as good as ever. And yesterday I listened to some music in stereo mode, and that sounded excellent as well, the same as the dolby modes, so if thats the case, i'll just go with stereo mode. I cant go with bypass mode because the bass isnt there, till i get a sub anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 So i finished bi-wiring yesterday, and man did i have a scare. after all that work, i turn it all on, and i get sound out of only one speaker! I thought I did something or some component got screwed. after 2 hours of troubleshooting, i find out that the cablebox, somehow, lost its right channel of audio! god that was so infuriating. Anyway, i dont know if it sounds any better, but then again i've only had it for a few days. A few more questions though. What kind of cables are you all using to connect the amp to the processor? I'm using the stuff that came in the Rotel box, but upon reading the manual, they suggest getting some good shielded cables, i'm wondering if any of you bought into that. also, one of the primary sources into this processor is the cable box. after i went to the dealer today, He suggested that i try running digital coax from the cable box into the Rotel. I told him that, i am not using it or planning on using it as a multi channel processor, just straight stereo. In this case, do I or would it sound better over digital coax vs analog coax? So again i ask, what do you all use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsp1068 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Blue Jeans are the rave here on the forum. I have King Cats from www.catcables.com, as well as appeture from www.nextlevelav.com. Don't getto caught up in the "sheilded" cables, as most runs are short, and noise won't be a problem. Bear in mind not to run signal wires in parallel with power cables (side by side). If they must come together have them "cross" one another at 90 degrees. I prefer silver, and the spendier the cable the better build quality (primarily components used) you can expect. I started with Monster high buckers, and after having a couple fail, ends come loose, said screw it and opted for something a little further up the chain. The best way to truely see what sounds "better", is to try it. There is science behind much of the industry, and beyond that it becomes subjective, so, use your own judgement. If you use a digital coax (copper wire) from the cable box to the 1068, you will be using the 1068's dacs. If you use the digital optical from the cable box to the 1068, you will again be using the 1068's dacs, with the additional transition from electronic to light, and then back again, so it adds a series of coversion which can hamper the original signal. If you use the analog (right-left rca connections) out of the cable box to the 1068, you will be using the cable boxes dacs. So again, see sentence above about "try it" and let people know how it sounds to you. Sounds like your having fun (frustration just adds to it all), and headed to where you want to be. Cool, keep updating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share Posted May 5, 2007 well i am having fun, i never really paid a lot of attention to wiring and such before, because I always knew we would have to change out the Onkyo receiver eventually for something new, so now that this time has come, I'm really getting into making sure i get the most out of the equipment. So right now I've hooked up the cable box to the RSP 1068 via the digital coax, and on the HD channels it recognizes everything as Dolby Digital. to me, it sounds pretty good, and i'm happy with the setting so i wont mess with it. what I am worried about is the power that you're talking about. I run the power cables directly behind the component rack. maybe i'll take a picture of it and post it here and you all can tell me if i need to move it or something. also how will i know if i'm getting interference from the power cables? will it be a hum or something at loud volumes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 what I am worried about is the power that you're talking about. I run the power cables directly behind the component rack. maybe i'll take a picture of it and post it here and you all can tell me if i need to move it or something. also how will i know if i'm getting interference from the power cables? will it be a hum or something at loud volumes? If you have to ask you should be ok. You would know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share Posted May 5, 2007 well this morning I went back in there and rerouted all the cables. I tried to separate all the power from all the other cables as much as i could. Again i've never seen any or heard any strange sounds that shouldnt be there, so i'm hoping i'm okay, but now at least its a lot neater, i think. anyway, i took some pictures while i was cleaning up. that was taken from about 20 feet back. So we have a Salamander designs Synergy 20 cabinet. I have the Rotel equipment stuffed in there. I've read that its normal for it to get pretty hot, and it hasnt shut down yet. I've left about 4 inches of clearance on each side like it says in the manual, and the front is perforated steel, so the heat can escape that way, if it needs to. basically, does it look like its okay for me to leave it in this cabinet, in terms of heat? I mean when I listen to music, i open both doors anyway (just to get to the CDs, so the heat shouldn't be a problem, i hope)? When watching tv, we rarely, if ever, listen to it very loud, or even loud at all (around vol 50-55). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Very nice setup & looks clean. You have done what you should with the cables. If you're concerned about the heat you can put a thermometer in there to test. If it's too hot you could put a small quiet fan in back to circulate air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share Posted May 5, 2007 thanks, does it look like to you that i've over stuffed it? if i put a thermometer in there, what temp should i consider as threshold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Is the air able to freely move through the back of the unit? I would try to keep my equipment racks under 90 degrees, but I think you can get away with a bit more. Looking at your rack, I have a feeling that the cable box is going to run the hottest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted May 6, 2007 Author Share Posted May 6, 2007 the doors are made of perforated steel so air can enter. there's like a 1.5" space between the back piece on both the top and bottom clearing, so yeah, air can move through. The cable box does get hot but not nearly as hot as the RSP-1068. It gets almost too hot to touch. I was surprised that the amp doesnt heat up that much. i dont know if this is abnormal or not. i've read on the avsforum rotel thread that the rsp-1068 does run pretty hot and like i said, it has the clearance it needs on all 4 sides... the 4" it says i need to have in the manual. strange that for a piece that gets so hot, the top isnt covered with air vents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Is the air able to freely move through the back of the unit?I would try to keep my equipment racks under 90 degrees, but I think you can get away with a bit more. Looking at your rack, I have a feeling that the cable box is going to run the hottest. Good call. I use a Targus laptop chill mat under my sat box to keep it cool. Walmart $20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 the doors are made of perforated steel so air can enter. there's like a 1.5" space between the back piece on both the top and bottom clearing, so yeah, air can move through. The cable box does get hot but not nearly as hot as the RSP-1068. It gets almost too hot to touch. I was surprised that the amp doesnt heat up that much. i dont know if this is abnormal or not. i've read on the avsforum rotel thread that the rsp-1068 does run pretty hot and like i said, it has the clearance it needs on all 4 sides... the 4" it says i need to have in the manual. strange that for a piece that gets so hot, the top isnt covered with air vents. Thank god for the second law of thermodynamics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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