Tube amp for Heresy II

[HII]

I have a pair of Klipsch Heresy II speakers (bought in 1987). I am considering one of four amps:

1. Zen SE84C

2. Welbourne Labs Moondog 2A3 Monoblocks

3. Bottlehead Paramour

4. Antique Sound Labs AQ1003

Has any one had any experience with these amps. If so, any recommendations? I have also been told that the "Fi X" 2A3 amp is also very good.

Any response would be helpful.

HII

[mobile homeless]

Lord. The problem with that list is that those amps are pretty different in design AND PRICE. I guess the odd one out of that mix price-wise is certainly the Moondog which would be in the 1500-1800 range used. Two excellent examples employing the Ultimate Upgrade kit just came on market recently and both were picked up by Klipsch Forum members. The ASL AQ1003 is a standard push-pull EL-34 amp so is the only one not employing some sort of Single-Ended Circuit.

I personally would opt to spend more on my amplification since going the cheaper route will give you a taste but perhaps leave you wondering what is better. Although the Zen 84C is an intriquing little unit, I dont think it will ultimately satisfy. Most if its owners are first time tube users who have little to compare it to. At around 2w, it will be a bit underpowered, even for the Heresy. IT also seems to do better via 4ohm loads that do not vary. Lastly, it is a single-ended amp using a pentode tube run in triode, not a Directly Heated Triode (DHT) such as the 2A3, 300B etc.

The ASL AQ1003 is another beast altogether. I dont think it employs a choke filtered power supply and it probably uses a rather subpar version of solid state rectification. Still, its a push-pull amp that I imagine sounds competent enough, but would not be in the league of, say, something like the Moondog or perhaps even the other offerings. There is a notable difference in the way a SET and push-pull amps deliever the music. Well designed examples of both can be great.

The Paramour is surely a great little kit for the money. It competes strongly (and probably surpasses) the single ZEN amp on a variety of fronts. Even though the Moondog and Paramour are both SET monoblocks based on the 2A3 tube, they employ very different topologies/circuits.

I think of that selection, the Moondog is obviously the most sonically and build-wise...but it is also over two-three times the price of the other selections.

I some real questions to answer first are what your musical tastes are and what kind of sonic picture are you looking for? Also, what is your price range?

kh

Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point

CD Player Rega Planet

Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified

Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks

Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect

Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover

system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s>

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-20-2002 at 01:03 PM

[HII]

Thanks for the reply Mobile. My quest is to achieve that perfect sound, of course. I want detail, musicality, warmth, good detailed bass, airiness, depth, realism, etc. etc.. My price range is between $ 500 and $ 1500. I listen to rock, classical, accoustic Spanish and classical guitar music, male and female vocal bands and am starting to look into jazz music ( ie Diana Crawl ). I am currently using an older Luxman SS amp which is starting to break down. Based on the research that I have done and the design of the Klispch speakers, it seems obvious to me that some sort of tube amp is in order. It is very hard to choose one as it is impossible to listen to them all. Each of the amps that I listed in my first post have all got raving reviews, but, like you say, it is hard to qualify the experience and "ears" of the reviewer. By your post I see that you have the Moondogs. If I were to get the Moondogs, my price range would limit me to the kits. I have never built a kit but have an eye for detail, patience and am somewhat mechanically inclined. In choosing a tube amp I also do not want live with anything that produces too much noise ( ie hum etc. ) Is this asking too much?

By the way, I did get a chance to listen to the Antique Sound Labs amp. It sounded quite good but seemd to roll off the highs a bit.

HII

[Marvel]

HII,

The ASL equipment is made overseas (not necessarily a bad thing.) If you want the power and like the EL34 PP design, the VTA 70i, by Sound Valves (designed and made in the US), is $900 for a kit or $1k wired. I used a 30 wpc tube amp on my JBL 4311 speakers, and they would crank quite well. Had a very nice sound.

Marvel

http://www.soundvalves.com/vta70i.html

[Colin]

Compared to the bargain basement $99 price of the ASL Wave 8s, the Bottlehead 2A3 Paramours (usually sold in kit form) seem to be far more expensive. The base price for the pair of 3.5-watt monoblocks is twice that of the small, but solid, Waves. Then, add in another hundred for assembly and another hundred for upgraded parts; and you have a pair of light and tan tube amps which look nothing like the typical sleek black box stereo component, but sound at least as good - if not better. The sound Paramours make with big old Cornwalls however is quite enticing. They make notes sound more fully formed. Details stand out. Blocks have knock. Horns blat and blare. Guitars rasp. Strings are plucked.

Vocals are filled with lushness, but not a full bloom; like a rose, but not when it blooms, but just before when it is ripe and ready to bloom. Bass is good, well defined, even if a little bit lacking in the "thump" of more powerful tube and SS amps.

Consider an SS powered sub-woofer (and a good one) to fill in the bottom of modern movies and recordings (there is an octave down there that most moderate priced full range speakers miss). (I am investigating bi-amping with an SS or tube amp.)

The nuances of the music, and the recording, are there with flea powered amps on big old horns. If you like classical, acoustic Spanish and classical guitar music, male and female vocal bands and some jazz music, like the incomparable Diana Krall, you will love what tubes can do with big old horns. If you like tone and texture, consider flea-powered amps with big old horns. If you like closely miked recordings, like the best sellers of Krall, you will like what 2A3 tubes do with big old horns.

In fact, ultra-efficient horns (100 dB/w/m) are one of the few designs that can truly benefit from flea powered amps like the Paramours. I have heard gorgeous Pass Labs 250 watts of pure muscle on these horns of mine, and while it was extremely thorough and accurate sound, it was not "musical." Just as some guitars or violins sell for astronomical sums of money, a few select combinations of equipment can approach the rarefied air of musical audio.

The snap and pop of the Waves, for example, was wonderful to hear. They are close to the rare air. They clearly give the tube sound, for a pittance of the price of most good tube or SS amps. Indeed, I found myself returning again and again to rock recordings and playing the Waves LOUD.

Yet, even on the wonderful Axiom Audio Millennia M3Ti Loudspeakers (at only $275) a pair, the Paramours revealed the care, skill and craftmanship of musicians on recordings. Plus, they played plenty loud enough, without audible signs of clipping in my average size living room. Not to hear the dynamics, which so many speakers and SS amps do not have, but just to hear concert like volumes with so much joy and energy was wonderful. In fact, "little miss sensitive ears" gave it her hard to win endorsement. She preferred the $6000 Pass X250 first, but liked the Paramours (at 1/20th the price) second. I preferred the Paramours first, but then I like what tubes do when they "tingle" the high-end instruments.

Although the Wellbourne and Wright creations are wonderful reviews for their details and control with their 2A3 amps, I would like to hear what a ASL 10 watt (!) 2A3 could really do with ultra-efficient horns.

It has been a while since I've heard the classic Dynaco ST70s with their EL34 tubes, but they had 35 watts (RMS back then?) per channel in a push-pull (right?) configuration. They certainly had the oomph to drive the Cornwalls during my rock n' roll sessions. I went with the 2A3s because I did not need that kind of high volume push. I preferred the delicacy and tone of the 2A3s instead.

This message has been edited by Colin on 01-28-2002 at 05:02 PM